Author Topic: MechWarrior - Forever Legends - Sign-up  (Read 7646 times)

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Offline ELH_AIMB

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Re: MechWarrior - Forever Legends - Sign-up
« Reply #15 on: February 21, 2014, 08:19:10 PM »
So you started play tourney for leaving it after 1st game? Dont tell me that you dont think that someone could use "not your gamestyle". Anyway, it's your way.
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Offline Starch1ld

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Re: MechWarrior - Forever Legends - Sign-up
« Reply #16 on: February 21, 2014, 08:27:59 PM »
So you started play tourney for leaving it after 1st game? Dont tell me that you dont think that someone could use "not your gamestyle". Anyway, it's your way.
Each team got its gamestyle, I agree with AIMB.

But, as we saw, it's evident the fact that BAs are badly suitable for this kind of gameplay. We could need rules change.

Offline RDL_Vitos

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Re: MechWarrior - Forever Legends - Sign-up
« Reply #17 on: February 21, 2014, 10:43:56 PM »

Offline ELH_MrGray

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Re: MechWarrior - Forever Legends - Sign-up
« Reply #18 on: February 21, 2014, 11:47:47 PM »
@Vitos
Nice shot indeed.

@artem
6 months ago when you played scrims vs ELH mwll fans without our drop commander it was your game style and now when you meet ELH best pilots it is not? You was not ready for BA, just admit it. Rules will be changed to reduce number of BA's and make games more dynamic. Calm down, learn from mistakes and just play. Dont be a pussy.

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"What's it sound like?"
"RAPERAPERAPERAPE."

Offline xInVicTuSx

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Re: MechWarrior - Forever Legends - Sign-up
« Reply #19 on: February 22, 2014, 08:45:08 AM »
This is what happens when you ban ASF *grumble grumble*

PPCs and Arrows cant do shit against ASF and airpower can be used to pick away at campers or distract them while the main force of mechs sneaks up into position. KoS/12VR did this constantly during the league as a counter to camping.

I agree with the draw changes, those were a good idea. Also generally agree with the disconnect changes.

The BA changes puzzle me though. Though BA can be very annoying if the opposing team has lots of players to spare since they are so low weight. But if the team only has 5 or 6 pilots, one of them can only fight 5 tons at a time and can never carry the match.

I could say perhaps it should've been mechs only to start, but tanks like the Morrigu and demolisher are great at breaking camp lines too...

Counter assets are there for a reason... but because no ASF, assets like partisans, harassers, hephs, and AA eponas have been ignored, they are all excellent vs BA as well as AA.

Anyone else remember when SJ took that shit ton of BA in that one league match and we had to hunt them all down for like 20 minutes?  ;D

I feel that without ASF people are just worried about mech vs mech and ignoring anything else.
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Offline ELH_Vivicector

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Re: MechWarrior - Forever Legends - Sign-up
« Reply #20 on: February 22, 2014, 09:16:10 AM »
C'on, adapt and overcome! BAs are easy target for anything with MGuns and/or light kinetics. Yea, AA assets just rape them, but a lot of mechs have the suitable weapons too. One mech can kill all those BAs and continue fighting with the group.

Your failures are not those of the "playstyle", but of poor asset choices. E. g. on the last map you should not have gone all close range mechs, but have some PPCs too, then the Raven  would be an easy target. Having some mixed weaponry is a must on many maps.

Hm. When we were playing the screams, you were very much ok with standing at one place yourselves  ;) .

Anyway, the proposed rule changes should fix a lot of really existing problems with the league.

Offline xInVicTuSx

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Re: MechWarrior - Forever Legends - Sign-up
« Reply #21 on: February 22, 2014, 09:36:26 AM »
Besides, you don't have to fear any one strategy for very long. The premiere assets of each strategy don't last very long with the no repeating variant rule.
My advice is to let the rule ride as long as possible. Resetting it too soon would just result in the same old canned strats repeated.

Fun fact: There are only 5 variants in the game with dual arrows. (MKII C, Huit A/C/D, Catapult C) and 3 with single arrows -which are not nearly as effective- (Daishi C, Huit P/E).
So an arrow heavy make up can only show up 5 times out of 21 matches in the first round. The LT can only show up once!
« Last Edit: February 22, 2014, 09:43:14 AM by xInVicTuSx »
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Offline ~SJ~ Zero Wirth

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Re: MechWarrior - Forever Legends - Sign-up
« Reply #22 on: February 22, 2014, 09:38:48 AM »
Anyone else remember when SJ took that shit ton of BA in that one league match and we had to hunt them all down for like 20 minutes?  ;D
Certainly the funniest of all matches. We were trying to take another one of your assets before burning for orbit.
Too bad you guys were sporting Osiri, and our hovercraft pilot got spooked and lost the field for us. He should have stayed powered down.

EDIT: I feel ASF are in a poor state of balance since the last patch. The changes to ultra-autocannons make it harder to keep a bead, and the damage mod changes cripple most ground to air based repulsion. In a blind drop match, that means you effectively have to field at least one air superiority fighter just in case. Ground based AA tanks like the party van and the huit now are mostly ineffective against aircraft, and only certain variants are even competent. I agree that ASF are the natural counter to campers but I'm not sure ASF work right now in blind drop. A skilled pilot can use any of the 900m ASF to destroy a team systematically if unopposed, with no opportunity for the team to deal with the ASF. The real burden is since server counts have been low, I dont realistically think that each team has a pilot that knows AtA combat.
« Last Edit: February 22, 2014, 09:52:12 AM by ~SJ~ Zero Wirth »

Offline xInVicTuSx

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Re: MechWarrior - Forever Legends - Sign-up
« Reply #23 on: February 22, 2014, 10:00:06 AM »
While that is true for the best of aircraft (those with very high damage and fast gtfo time) I bet that the majority of aircraft variants are pretty evenly matched with ground AA.
I just don't think there is enough data for instance on what a Corsair with RACs or a Visigoth with Heavy lasers can do vs ground assets protected by ground AA before being demolished.

All we ever see in pubs are the best of the best ASF/Vtol spammed over and over and over. 
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Offline ELH_Vivicector

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Re: MechWarrior - Forever Legends - Sign-up
« Reply #24 on: February 22, 2014, 10:18:03 AM »
An important point about G2A is free hands movement. Most mechs have an effective reach of 45 degrees up on the move now, and way more - crouched. I remember killing VTOL who was trying to circle over my head with Bushy A. ;)

Offline ~SJ~ Zero Wirth

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Re: MechWarrior - Forever Legends - Sign-up
« Reply #25 on: February 22, 2014, 10:27:59 AM »
Fair point Vic. Over 24 matches HG shiva, LBL sulla, and EATM Visi might combined cheese me 2 easy victories. If I only use those 3 though, maybe on each opening match, I could force the enemy team to take some very heavy ground based AA units to battle and be hamstrung by their very slow traverse speeds. There certainly isnt 24 competent AA choices to pick.

I personally remember killing a rifleman with a Donar prime on a warzone drop, thats a 30 ton asset killing a 60 ton asset while I didnt slow down my group and gave valuable scouting information. AA assets simply dont stack well against ASF in a blind drop setting imo, since they all move under 64kph and are not negligible in weight. You need a pilot to take out theirs, and I dont think each team has one.

Vivi, thats really the enemy pilots fault. A vtol beyond capable of maintaining a 70+ degree angle of attack, and most variants can do it outside of 500m (700m for most donars). The pilot wants this height and angle because not only it protects him from his prey, but also from other mechs maybe 100m to the side aiming up. Since his buddy needs to be a bit further away to get the angle right, he will be out of range with the majority of weapons he could be sporting.

Secretly I dont want the russians flying with 250 ping lagshields

Offline Chezzar

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Re: MechWarrior - Forever Legends - Sign-up
« Reply #26 on: February 22, 2014, 11:20:31 AM »
So I try a multi response to yesterdays/todays posts:

BA-teams:
I think if a team could field 10 Players, 4 or 4 BA are a big advantage.  I often get lonley BAs in Pugs, but 5 of them with PPC and heavy lasers will rip a mech apart rather quickly. And while you are fighting BAs, the enemy mechs will come to finish you...

AERO:
I got fed up by HGaus Shiva. A competent pilot could kill a whole team with it. Every AA you field is either slow or bad against ground assets, so you are on a disadvantage against the enemy ground assets. And there are not enought competent aero players to fly interceptors. I tried, but the flight physiks of MWLL are not my cup of tea....
BTW, Cosair is hard to hit, and don't show the player name if hit (Bug, same as Huit).

VOTL:
Those are easyer to get if they don't hover in your blind spot and you got the range...if you got the range.

Offline RDL_Vitos

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Re: MechWarrior - Forever Legends - Sign-up
« Reply #27 on: February 22, 2014, 11:32:21 AM »
Fair point Vic. Over 24 matches HG shiva, LBL sulla, and EATM Visi might combined cheese me 2 easy victories. If I only use those 3 though, maybe on each opening match, I could force the enemy team to take some very heavy ground based AA units to battle and be hamstrung by their very slow traverse speeds. There certainly isnt 24 competent AA choices to pick.

I personally remember killing a rifleman with a Donar prime on a warzone drop, thats a 30 ton asset killing a 60 ton asset while I didnt slow down my group and gave valuable scouting information. AA assets simply dont stack well against ASF in a blind drop setting imo, since they all move under 64kph and are not negligible in weight. You need a pilot to take out theirs, and I dont think each team has one.

Vivi, thats really the enemy pilots fault. A vtol beyond capable of maintaining a 70+ degree angle of attack, and most variants can do it outside of 500m (700m for most donars). The pilot wants this height and angle because not only it protects him from his prey, but also from other mechs maybe 100m to the side aiming up. Since his buddy needs to be a bit further away to get the angle right, he will be out of range with the majority of weapons he could be sporting.

Secretly I dont want the russians flying with 250 ping lagshields

ASF agree - the imbalance at the moment.

Also BA - ban them fully (voobshe:)



Impression - the most interesting and entertaining (when more active battle) was : TOURNAMENT - Operation Viper. I'm waiting to continue in this format.

Offline Starch1ld

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Re: MechWarrior - Forever Legends - Sign-up
« Reply #28 on: February 22, 2014, 12:12:19 PM »
Thanks for your feedback. Rules will be changed for the 2nd round, but now we already made too many changes for this one.

Only 1 BA pack of 5 total spawns per team for each Match should help balancing things.

So, just play. If you don't have enough players and still want to field BAs, then hire freelancers. You can do that.

Offline xInVicTuSx

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Re: MechWarrior - Forever Legends - Sign-up
« Reply #29 on: February 22, 2014, 04:53:37 PM »
@Star

Assuming 5v5 for 3 rounds for 7 games, teams will use around 100 variants. Around 125 for 6v6 and about 150 for 7v7.

So on average I would say around 125 variants will be used per team in the first round.

There are about 350+ variants of mechs, tanks, and hovercraft in MWLL.

I would consider keeping the no repeating variant rule as long as possible. Otherwise the next round will just be more or less a sequel of the first round's droplists.

Particularly if ASF are introduced into the second round. Regardless, BA have been popular and have preserved variants already.

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