Author Topic: some ideas to throw at you all  (Read 1545 times)

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Offline death_grin

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some ideas to throw at you all
« on: June 17, 2014, 08:07:50 PM »
-'Mech-centric combined arms multiplayer game mixed with the sandbox elements of Planetside 2 (not quite the scope but still large maps with sandbox style objectives) and BF2142 aesthetics (launch attacks with a floating assault ship?) ,
- player persistance (unlock new vehicles from collecting loot after battles, and then manufacture them using salvage in a available factory slot) 
- robust support for guild/corporations/mercenary units/group affiliations. 
- all items use a mmo-style system of differing rarities and quality (sub-par, standard, high-grade, premium, experimental.)
-Players and groups collect resources after battle and use those resources to build vehicles, weapons, etc that can be commited to battles. 
-Research to increase the quality of items and unlock new items and blueprints.
-Game world is divided into smaller "tactical" maps, all on a larger strategic map.  Each tactical map is a actual playable map, while each tactical map is represented on a  strategic map and gives the owning player a boon of some sort (extra factory slots for manufacturing, increase resource gain, increase research points, etc.)
(or)
-each level is a larger battle sandbox map with a variety of objectives, similiar to planetside 2 (but smaller in scale.)  Each level is persistant and the battles can go on for days or weeks.

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Offline SquareSphere

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Re: some ideas to throw at you all
« Reply #1 on: June 17, 2014, 11:52:49 PM »
are these ideas you want to put in a game or in general? In general I love any multiplayer game that's objective based.

Offline Warlord Kentax

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Re: some ideas to throw at you all
« Reply #2 on: June 18, 2014, 01:28:19 AM »
Manm, I hate grinding. That's why I play MWLL and not MWO. In LL I have all of the assets at my fingertips. I don't want to have to earn anything in a multiplayer game save for earning victory.
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Offline EmyLightsaber

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Re: some ideas to throw at you all
« Reply #3 on: June 18, 2014, 08:59:11 AM »
Quote
-'Mech-centric combined arms multiplayer game mixed with the sandbox elements of Planetside 2 (not quite the scope but still large maps with sandbox style objectives) and BF2142 aesthetics (launch attacks with a floating assault ship?)

Would need a Movable Assault ship with independent interiors, maybe harder to breach than the BF2142 ones?


Quote
- player persistance (unlock new vehicles from collecting loot after battles, and then manufacture them using salvage in a available factory slot)

I would think either each side, or one of the (possible) 3 sides would have a common pool of units that are updated when you lose/ capture/ build more. Perhaps there could be a Capture mechanic, where say you bail out of the Mech/ Vehicle or whatever, you have to drive/ fly it back to your base into a hangar, and then it would take something like 24 hours (maybe real time) to Reverse Engineer it?

Quote
- robust support for guild/corporations/mercenary units/group affiliations.

Need this definitely, maybe make there being Outfit Bases, but would need larger maps than the 64x64 km maps mentioned later for this to work.

Quote
- all items use a mmo-style system of differing rarities and quality (sub-par, standard, high-grade, premium, experimental.)

Erm, not sure on this, maybe if it were tied to how many bases/ outposts you held, would make the ability to make the best Experimental or Premium weapons/ armor/ vehicle components restricted to certain spots on the map or Static Facilities that could change hands.

Quote
-Players and groups collect resources after battle and use those resources to build vehicles, weapons, etc that can be commited to battles.

a Planetside 1-style ANT or Harvester-style vehicle would be needed, perhaps make a whole support tree that would let you get more returns and better quality materials from deconstructing parts after harvest, or needing to physically move the parts from the battlefield onto a trailer or baggage train, then move it to your main base.

An Mobile Field Base, ala Mechwarrior 3 would be useful, make it captureable just like all the rest of the vehicles.

Quote
-Research to increase the quality of items and unlock new items and blueprints.

Would need to make research either an Empire-specific project or projects, with hand-held weapons player researchable, possibly each weapon researched is also added to the Empire-Pool of possible builds. Outfits and Empire-Factions would need either Community chosen or Dev chosen Leaders to run the backend for the first couple of Months, before turning over the keys of the Research and Builds to the Community-chosen Leaders.

Quote
-Game world is divided into smaller "tactical" maps, all on a larger strategic map.  Each tactical map is a actual playable map, while each tactical map is represented on a  strategic map and gives the owning player a boon of some sort (extra factory slots for manufacturing, increase resource gain, increase research points, etc.)
(or)
-each level is a larger battle sandbox map with a variety of objectives, similiar to planetside 2 (but smaller in scale.)  Each level is persistant and the battles can go on for days or weeks.

By Map Size, I would think a Crysis 1 sized map, with each individual level being a Tactical Map, and the whole Island being the Strategic Map would probably work on one hand.

On the other hand, something that would be nearly seamless would work too. I've messed around with the CryEngine 3 Sandbox editor from Crysis 2, and I believe it can go up to 64x64 km max, so ostensibly it could be worked into the terrain.

Going further down that line, if an MW:LL style continent would possibly work, as in taking something like TC_Death Valley, linking it on each side to one of the Canyon-style maps, maybe the further north you go, make more tundra and snowy-style terrains, south would be towards a jungle area, east to a coastal map section-slice, and west to a temperate zone-slice.

(Personal Ideas):

If we could make each vehicle and mech restricted to Rank and Prestige, it might work better, so if I'm a new recruit, I'm unlikely to be able to just requisition a Heavy or Assault Mech, or even a Heavy or Assault class Vehicle. Maybe I need to work on things as a Driver or Gunner for a while if we go down the ArmA or BF2142 route as opposed to the Planetside 2 scope, maybe use Planetside 1-style vehicle personnel setups as a guide, then go from there.
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Offline ELH_Imp

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Re: some ideas to throw at you all
« Reply #4 on: June 18, 2014, 03:36:05 PM »
Since topic still going upward, I think this need to be here.

And this makes me ask question (pretty uncomfortable, I know, sorry): who can handle this stuff? Chris Roberts already have SC and not everyone believes he can keep all his promises even with ~50m$ and MWLL devs on his side.

Offline SquareSphere

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Re: some ideas to throw at you all
« Reply #5 on: June 18, 2014, 03:59:23 PM »
On SC, my only wish for it was a freelancer/starlancer type game where players could host their own severs. All the other MMO stuff I don't care about and honestly, he tacked on after people kept refusing to believe it wasn't going to be a traditional MMO (which is why it won't be able to deliver on the MMO piece in initial launch)

I'm however, completely confident he'll/they'll be able to deliver a great Squadron 42 (single player) experience.

Now that i have a semi frame of reference. Death_grin's idea sounds like like a MOBS Mutliplayer Online Battle Simulator. Each map instance is a campaign that has a series of battles/mini conflicts. There are multiple objectives to initiate battles, and each conflict outcomes adds to conditions that will lead to eventual campaign victory.

There's potentially more MMO meta outside of battle that could influence what's fielded in the campaign.

I could be off on that but that's what i'm seeing. Honestly this thread is going no where unless DG gives more context

Offline death_grin

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Re: some ideas to throw at you all
« Reply #6 on: June 18, 2014, 07:36:23 PM »
Since topic still going upward, I think this need to be here.

And this makes me ask question (pretty uncomfortable, I know, sorry): who can handle this stuff? Chris Roberts already have SC and not everyone believes he can keep all his promises even with ~50m$ and MWLL devs on his side.

Who? People.  Artists, programmers, more then just one guy.  Anyway I'm not interested in if it can be done at this point, just throwing out ideas.

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Offline death_grin

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Re: some ideas to throw at you all
« Reply #7 on: June 18, 2014, 08:38:55 PM »
The below is more of a "what I want" and the reasoning more then an ideas discussion but feel free to critique it.
It's a hudge podge of semi-related ideas that don't yet have a solid framework (though one is starting to become apparent.)
Also TL;DR

Quote
Quote
-'Mech-centric combined arms multiplayer game mixed with the sandbox elements of Planetside 2 (not quite the scope but still large maps with sandbox style objectives) and BF2142 aesthetics (launch attacks with a floating assault ship?)

Would need a Movable Assault ship with independent interiors, maybe harder to breach than the BF2142 ones?

That's sort of my thought, like the titans in BF2142.  Perhaps make them buildable and requiring a substantial amount of time and resources, where a single player couldn't build one but a dedicated player corp. could.



Quote
Quote
- player persistance (unlock new vehicles from collecting loot after battles, and then manufacture them using salvage in a available factory slot)

I would think either each side, or one of the (possible) 3 sides would have a common pool of units that are updated when you lose/ capture/ build more. Perhaps there could be a Capture mechanic, where say you bail out of the Mech/ Vehicle or whatever, you have to drive/ fly it back to your base into a hangar, and then it would take something like 24 hours (maybe real time) to Reverse Engineer it?

Yes, each side would likely have a common pool of basic equipment (with some aesthetic variations.)  The capture mechanic/reverse engineering idea is a good one.  Perhaps you capture it, then reverse engineer it and get a blueprint of that item in return.  Which is then used for manufacturing said item.   I could imagine teams undertaking salvage operations in order to capture a wreck or to prevent the enemy from capturing one.

Quote
Quote
- robust support for guild/corporations/mercenary units/group affiliations.

Need this definitely, maybe make there being Outfit Bases, but would need larger maps than the 64x64 km maps mentioned later for this to work.
64x64km is gigantic.  I think you mean 64km2?  Which is 8x8km  I believe the planetside 2 continents are between 8km-10km across.  Anything that big would need to support a very large player count.



Quote
Quote
- all items use a mmo-style system of differing rarities and quality (sub-par, standard, high-grade, premium, experimental.)

Erm, not sure on this, maybe if it were tied to how many bases/ outposts you held, would make the ability to make the best Experimental or Premium weapons/ armor/ vehicle components restricted to certain spots on the map or Static Facilities that could change hands.
I'm not sure how players and corporations would aquire new blueprints to manufacture items yet.  But that does give me an idea.  Could be neat if some facilities, as you mentioned, manufacture specific items.  So capturing that facility will grant it's owner the ability to manufacture said item, or a blueprint to do so.  Could even randomize it so that teams can decide where they want to attack based on the return, or where to defend to keep the other team from aquiring that item.

Part of my reasoning for a item grade system is to add some variation across the items, which will add some depth to the system.  I think it would also make for a healthier economy in that players and player corporations can specialize in manufacuring certain items (which could be sold in a team marketplace.)  There might be a hundred common "Mk 13 starlancer beam lasers" but only a few prototype "mk 20 starlander beam lasers."
Quote
Quote
-Players and groups collect resources after battle and use those resources to build vehicles, weapons, etc that can be commited to battles.

a Planetside 1-style ANT or Harvester-style vehicle would be needed, perhaps make a whole support tree that would let you get more returns and better quality materials from deconstructing parts after harvest, or needing to physically move the parts from the battlefield onto a trailer or baggage train, then move it to your main base.

An Mobile Field Base, ala Mechwarrior 3 would be useful, make it captureable just like all the rest of the vehicles.

I'm kind of going back and forth between the idea that players would need to manually harvest resources (aside from a smaller amount automatically gained during the course of battle) or just make it automated, with some sort of flying harvester that could be attacked.  Perhaps a combination of both.  Maybe make the base "titan" upgradable with automated harvesters.

Quote
Quote
-Research to increase the quality of items and unlock new items and blueprints.

Would need to make research either an Empire-specific project or projects, with hand-held weapons player researchable, possibly each weapon researched is also added to the Empire-Pool of possible builds. Outfits and Empire-Factions would need either Community chosen or Dev chosen Leaders to run the backend for the first couple of Months, before turning over the keys of the Research and Builds to the Community-chosen Leaders.
Each team, as well as players, would have a variety of basic items that they can manufacture, plus access to a team market for buying player made items, blueprints, and resources.  Research unlocks would be based on individual players having researched that item, and then having access to it.  To explain I'll have to explain the player corporations in more depth and the differences between free agent players and corporations.

The game is divided into two nations, fighting it out on the battlefield.  These nations hire corporations (which are basicly player run guilds) as well as "free agents."  Free agents being players that don't belong to a corporation.  A better name for corporations might be mercenary outfit, it's the same thing.  Players have their own personal progression.  Their own personal inventory, resources, blueprints, vehicle unlocks, item unlocks, etc etc.  They can also rent manufacturing slots and research slots for manufacturing items and research.  When a individual does research for themselves that individual unlocks that item.   Player Corporations on the other hand have the same options for research and manufacturing, but at a different level.  They have access to more manufacturing slots and faster research.  It's important to note that the result on research is only a blueprint for the researched item, and that these blueprints can be traded.  I haven't worked on the exact interaction here yet because one could imagine that a corporation could just have each member do individual research instead of the corporation doing the research.  This could be possibly more efficient but isn't something I would want.  Could be balanced though with having individual research being much slower or lower quality.

Also individuals and corporations have their own warehouse, essentially just a storage inventory of built items and resources (blueprints are stored in a "databank.")  When a corporation does research the blueprints go into the corporate databank, which can then be used for manufacturing items that will go into the corporate warehouse after they are manufactured.  Corporate officers, the CEO, or whoever the corporation gives access can then decide what items are used how.  For example they can slate a certain number must go to sale, or that some specific number of "Destoryer" tanks are for a upcoming battle, or even that anything in a certain warehouse is free to use by anyone in the corporation.  I'll need to write up a more detailed and clear explanation of the supply chain.




Quote
Quote
-Game world is divided into smaller "tactical" maps, all on a larger strategic map.  Each tactical map is a actual playable map, while each tactical map is represented on a  strategic map and gives the owning player a boon of some sort (extra factory slots for manufacturing, increase resource gain, increase research points, etc.)
(or)
-each level is a larger battle sandbox map with a variety of objectives, similiar to planetside 2 (but smaller in scale.)  Each level is persistant and the battles can go on for days or weeks.

By Map Size, I would think a Crysis 1 sized map, with each individual level being a Tactical Map, and the whole Island being the Strategic Map would probably work on one hand.

On the other hand, something that would be nearly seamless would work too. I've messed around with the CryEngine 3 Sandbox editor from Crysis 2, and I believe it can go up to 64x64 km max, so ostensibly it could be worked into the terrain.

Going further down that line, if an MW:LL style continent would possibly work, as in taking something like TC_Death Valley, linking it on each side to one of the Canyon-style maps, maybe the further north you go, make more tundra and snowy-style terrains, south would be towards a jungle area, east to a coastal map section-slice, and west to a temperate zone-slice.

As I already stated 64km x 64km is way to large.  Also CE at present only supports 4km x 4km maps.  They are working on implementing streaming for larger maps but I don't think that's in the current build.

Quote
(Personal Ideas):

If we could make each vehicle and mech restricted to Rank and Prestige, it might work better, so if I'm a new recruit, I'm unlikely to be able to just requisition a Heavy or Assault Mech, or even a Heavy or Assault class Vehicle. Maybe I need to work on things as a Driver or Gunner for a while if we go down the ArmA or BF2142 route as opposed to the Planetside 2 scope, maybe use Planetside 1-style vehicle personnel setups as a guide, then go from there.
I actually don't see anything wrong with a new player being able to requisition a heavy or assault 'mech.  If teams don't share resources, with the exception of corporations who can decide what gets used and doesn't anyway.  If you've played planetside 2 the resource system is similiar to what I'm talking about.  Players earn resources over time, which is then used for buying a vehicle.  Also any new player is likely to not have the cash to buy that assault mech off the market, or the resources to build one.  Let alone the blueprint to build one if so required.

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