Author Topic: War. War never changes.  (Read 3821 times)

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Offline Stahlseele

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Re: War. War never changes.
« Reply #15 on: June 05, 2015, 10:44:35 AM »
Are you sure you are not mixing up FNV with F?
Because i remember F being basically unplayable with crashes every few meters/minutes and one being able to circumvent 50% of the game by taking the right/wrong turn at a point . .
In comparison, i don't remember FNV ever crashing on me, at all . . and there was no real way of circumventing half of the game by accident or intentionally either, if i remember correctly.
Which i might not . .

So, rumor mill has it that appearantly, due to voice acting, you are going to be stuck with a/the male character you see in the trailer?
If so, that's a serious problem in my eyes, because character customization was one of the strong points of the fallout series <.<
'any kind of discussion of randomness ALWAYS WILL EQUATE to being able to critically hit a mech's reactor by firing a micro beam laser while facing 80 degrees to the side, shooting the ground, which would cause a random explosion which would randomly crit his entire team's reactors which would randomly cause the server itself to explode which would randomly generate a strange quark which would randomly hit the earth and randomly randomness randomfapp the shit fapp random!'
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Offline Bill

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Re: War. War never changes.
« Reply #16 on: June 05, 2015, 02:27:55 PM »
Character customisation was kinda the point, if I can be a fourteen foot albino person with a "come hither I want to rip and tear your guts" face then what's the point?

Basically, it's going to be parp, we all know it's going to be parp. Let's just ignore it and talk about good games instead?

Offline cyofee

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Re: War. War never changes.
« Reply #17 on: June 05, 2015, 04:33:50 PM »
On the Shadowrun front, Dragonfall has been a far, far better game. Deffo worth picking up imo, captures the feel exceptionally well and is basically way, way more polished and actually has characters with depth!

As for this biscuit guy, I'm likely to pass, again it's not a slight against the guy. I just don't really get anything out of that sort of format of programming/vlog/whatever it's called these days. I watch a few channels for movie reviews on occasion (Red Letter Media probably quite unsurprisingly) but that's mostly because they talk about technical aspects and well they have the in depth discussion about films that I wish I could have with my friends, but none of them are that into it all.

For video games it's different, I've been around the block enough times to know how to look out for dog eggs really. Not to mention there hasn't really been anything that taken my breath away/fully immersed me in the game world for a long time. Basically imo the last great thrust of gaming was Stalker, no other game has had such a complete and distinct atmosphere to it, not to mention the mods... Jesus wept they can be amazing (on that front keep an eye on OGSE, I would really recommend giving it a go). I am really enjoying SR:Dragonfall right now, everything feels right. It's got the right about of slick, the right about of grime, the right about of abject horror that the world isn't too far off the fantasy being depicted here (asides from the fantasy and the more extreme cyberpunk elements ofc). There's not been a lot to come out in recent years that's I'd happily suggest people play, that is outside of specialist games like X3 (with XRM mate), but it's managed to pull me into it's world quite nicely. Now I am a bit of a cyberpunk/Phillip K Dickian fan (mostly because out of all the types of sci fi, cyberpunk is the one that came true, and don't kid yourself that it's not) but I think the game stands on it's own merits, hell I got it for 3 when it was on sale and I'd say it's worth it's standard retail price.

As for Fallout 1/2, they and a few other classic RPGs are the swansong of an era of greatness that we are unlikely to see again for some time. Not when games are crafted for market demographics rather than the passion of telling a story or creating a vision of a world with brilliant clarity. I love those games for a number of reasons, but mostly because they treated my as an adult without thinking that meant swearing and violence. Sure it had plenty of both, but it wasn't the focus of them. They held up a mirror to us all and said "yes humanity are awful petulant cunts, but their is also great compassion and reasoning to be had if you sift through the shit". Forgive me my poetic license there, but they did the morality play better than it has been done for a long time; there was black and white, but you had to wade through a awful lot of grey to get there.

Anyway, I'll stop lamenting a bygone age. With any luck we'll all be proven wrong, but I highly doubt it.

the only thing that's different between old games and today's games is that you didn't get to play today's games when you were a kid

Offline Bill

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Re: War. War never changes.
« Reply #18 on: June 05, 2015, 07:54:37 PM »
Yes I did, I'm perfectly able of detaching myself from a game and judging it by it's merits. It's something I have always done, you fucking had to back in the tape trading age! the spectrum of quality was frantic.

OH and don't feed me that rose tinted goggles line cyofee, it's a load of bullshit and you know it.

I played plenty of absolutely terrible games when I was young and into adolescence, and you know what I did with them? Returned them to the store.  Hell I destroyed a few of them just to claim a refund.

The difference is that the general quality of PC games (which is what I'm talking about here, console games have been on a level since the PS2 imo) was higher and that's just not the case any more, you know it and I know it. So don't attempt to make out that this is only in my head you absolute absurdity.

Offline ~SJ~ Atlessa

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Re: War. War never changes.
« Reply #19 on: June 06, 2015, 01:45:59 AM »
So, rumor mill has it that appearantly, due to voice acting, you are going to be stuck with a/the male character you see in the trailer?


Being a female player, this deeply unsettles me. 
More and more game companies seem to think that it's not worth it to cater to a female audience...  but how much more work can it really be? There's gonna be female NPCs in the game, right? So the models and animations are there (and gonna look terrible, considering Bethesda's track record) anyway, right?

And don't give me that bullcrap voice acting argument. Bioware did it with Mass Effect (and I know plenty male gamers who actually played a femshep, just because her voice actress sounded so much better than the male), and look how much money they printed with that franchise?


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Offline Stahlseele

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Re: War. War never changes.
« Reply #20 on: June 06, 2015, 02:40:12 AM »
appearantly, that rumor is part of a bigger infodump that so far has been pretty much correct.
it was leaked by a disgruntled employee after she was fired for some reason.

further information says it's only for the main storyline quest and after that is done it won't be the case anymore.
and it supposedly won't be important for the DLCs to follow either . .

i am still not sure how to feel about this . .

if i remember correctly (highly unprobable), fallout was the first CRPG that allowed you to MAKE and play a female character . .
'any kind of discussion of randomness ALWAYS WILL EQUATE to being able to critically hit a mech's reactor by firing a micro beam laser while facing 80 degrees to the side, shooting the ground, which would cause a random explosion which would randomly crit his entire team's reactors which would randomly cause the server itself to explode which would randomly generate a strange quark which would randomly hit the earth and randomly randomness randomfapp the shit fapp random!'
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Offline ELH_Imp

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Re: War. War never changes.
« Reply #21 on: June 06, 2015, 11:38:20 AM »
if i remember correctly (highly unprobable), fallout was the first CRPG that allowed you to MAKE and play a female character . .
Nope. There was a hundreds of games before. Only D&D based stuff list could take few pages of forum.

Offline Bill

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Re: War. War never changes.
« Reply #22 on: June 06, 2015, 02:14:27 PM »
if i remember correctly (highly unprobable), fallout was the first CRPG that allowed you to MAKE and play a female character . .
Nope. There was a hundreds of games before. Only D&D based stuff list could take few pages of forum.

Yeah dude, you could do it in the original Wasteland as well I believe.

Also Altessa I have no idea where you're getting the impression that any companies believe it's not worth catering towards female gamers, sounds like so much hyperbole to me.

I mean don't get me wrong I think restricting people to a gender is bloody daft, they're role playing games after all. Ff I want to play a 14 foot tall Amazonian then I should be able to. However I think they're trying to stick to a narrative on this one(playing as a pre established character), at least if the nonsensical rumours I've heard are true, so whilst it's dumb as all hell, there's at least a skewed kind of logic to it. 

Offline ~SJ~ Atlessa

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Re: War. War never changes.
« Reply #23 on: June 06, 2015, 02:31:36 PM »
Also Altessa

It's Atlessa... the 75 ton little sister of the Atlas.

I have no idea where you're getting the impression that any companies believe it's not worth catering towards female gamers, sounds like so much hyperbole to me.

UbiSoft. Assassin's Creed. 'nuff said.


Also a while ago there was some controversy surrounding the game "Remember me".  Apparently the publisher didn't want the game to feature a female protagonist.  The developer insisted, and they got their funding cut short (for the PR as well) as a result.  It's argued that it became a self fulfilling profecy: No one wants female protagonists, ergo we're not funding this. Ergo the game wasn't very good, and the PR department was lacking as well, ergo the game didn't sell well.

Example where the developer pulled through:  The last of Us featured Ellie prominently on the cover, right?  Naughty dog INSISTED this be the case, and actually threatened to cease development if she were removed form the cover art. The publisher (sony if I remember correctly) is still counting their profits...  But the fact remains: they wanted to remove Ellie from the cover art, and show only a badass Joel...


There's plenty more examples out there, and if you think it is not so, then you maybe should in fact watch a little more gaming news... I can recommend this british guy turned American: TotalBiscuit.  ;P


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Offline Bill

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Re: War. War never changes.
« Reply #24 on: June 06, 2015, 02:53:31 PM »
Don't expect me to remember how to spell your name, I can't even remember how to spell my own at times and in my own opinion the Assassin's Creed thing was developer laziness blown out of proportion by people with an agenda, and people making terrible excuses when put on the spot over an issue they'd never even considered to be one. So I'm still not seeing what you're on about really, again it seems like people being offended for the sake of being offended.

Your second one is a game I've never even remotely heard of, so I can really voice an opinion there.

Third one is a marketing point and a valid one, a primarily male dominated market is going to pay more attention (ie spend more money, which is the entire point) to products featuring strong male leads, it's a psychology issue really that is something that's going to have to change over time through the introduction of more stronger and universally identifiable female protagonists and characters, it's not overt sexism to identify more with your own gender, regardless of how it's spun.

And there's a reason I don't pay attention to the gaming press, they talk about nonsense like this instead of the thing I'm interested in, video games. So yeah, I don't really see the problem, there's not some overarching conspiracy at work to deride and belittle women into secondary roles, there's existing cultural attitudes that will shift over time as issues are raised, and more importantly money is spent on things that address issues people have.

TL:DR Sensationalist hogwash.

Offline Stahlseele

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Re: War. War never changes.
« Reply #25 on: June 06, 2015, 06:24:22 PM »
Oh by the way:
there's a steam sale for the entire fallout franchise this weekend.
so if you haven't, look into buying some of the fallout stuff.
'any kind of discussion of randomness ALWAYS WILL EQUATE to being able to critically hit a mech's reactor by firing a micro beam laser while facing 80 degrees to the side, shooting the ground, which would cause a random explosion which would randomly crit his entire team's reactors which would randomly cause the server itself to explode which would randomly generate a strange quark which would randomly hit the earth and randomly randomness randomfapp the shit fapp random!'
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Offline xInVicTuSx

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Re: War. War never changes.
« Reply #26 on: June 07, 2015, 12:03:51 PM »
Yes I did, I'm perfectly able of detaching myself from a game and judging it by it's merits. It's something I have always done, you fucking had to back in the tape trading age! the spectrum of quality was frantic.

I played plenty of absolutely terrible games when I was young and into adolescence, and you know what I did with them? Returned them to the store.  Hell I destroyed a few of them just to claim a refund.

While I agree with you, I've also made it a point to replay all of my favorite games as an adult just to make sure.

Its pretty rare for me to go back and say that a game i really liked was actually full of flaws and overall pretty crappy. Unless it was a guilty pleasure that i knew even at the time was bad but enjoyed it anyways.

It seems to be more common that I look back more favorably on games I thought were pretty poor back in the day.

I'm sure you've done this plenty if you are dissatisfied with the current state of the industry.

I love to educate myself on the medium by going back and playing games that were considered great at the time and see how much I agree with their greatness or not. Sadly one of the most cane waving genres in the entire industry with the most opportunity to study (Western PC RPGs), is one of my least favored genres of all games so its been a struggle to find out why semi obscure game X is praised to the sky by purists when I have an aversion to the genre as a whole.

I found Planescape: torment to be pretty good actually.. people REALLY exaggerate the amount of reading in the game though... i mean some of the stuff was interesting but part of the reason why they needed a paragraph every second was because of stupid shit like "dirty man Y eyes you from the street corner and wheezes before asking..." all that shit is covered by modern graphics where you can actually SHOW it happening rather than seeing a top down pixely blob dubbed "gutter man" and clicking it to interact. But I'm really not sure I have the patience for Baldur's Gate and friends. And I can sit through those before openworld games, the "true" RPG experience I guess. Just cant stomach any of them really... TES? Fallout? Wasteland? Just... ew. I can appreciate them... from afar...

But yeah, some genres just got hit in the head and became stupid at some point. Who the fapp decided it was a good idea to stop making space simulator games with epic campaigns and stories?
The genre just... died?

And I get what people say when they just say gaming as lost some "soul"... I've been playing all the old command and conquers lately and yeah... as RTS games they're kinda poop, terrible balance and all that... but they had style damn it! Great music, awesome world, and little touches like the install screens being in-universe, no one cares about presentation like that anymore... Part of the reason CnC died?
All this stupid emphasis on "competitive".. fapp starcraft and or counterstrike in that respect, they puked on everything else and gave the industry that disease.

Blargh kids these days and such... [/rant]
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Offline Bill

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Re: War. War never changes.
« Reply #27 on: June 07, 2015, 12:27:57 PM »
Well I was with you still you lambasted Fallout & Baldurs Gate after praising PST, idk though Planescape has always been a massively overrated thing to me. Also graffix mostly don't mean shit to me really so I can't side with any of that point too well. I'd rather play through those isometric classics than anything early era 3D. Sprites just hold up better. But eh if it's not your genre then meh no big deal, I'm hardly going to know the difference between the ten thousand R-Type games out there, I find then dreary beyond belief. Everyone has their foilbles blah blah blah.

But your first point, whilst I've not played every single game I used to love (seriously I'm not wading through my old tape collection to remember if that one game I bought from Woolworths or Menzies for 35p in 1996 is the classic I recall) I do still fairly frequently (on the side of every couple of years) play through the games I loved back then, so it's not as if I don't know their flaws inside and out. It's why I also love the modding scene, people fix things long, long after the game is done (The original Fallout games are a testament to this, but for a more modern example that you likely don't hate through flawed reasoning and birth defects, Kotor 2. Those guys went the distance with that one).

But yeah, to summarise, I don't often make statements I can't back up, even if it is with more subjectivity.






(Oh and my other chat with Altsaladdressing, I could have summarised my points with this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dPoeYlTpyJ8 but I didn't want to be a slug, well more of a slug.)

Offline ~SJ~ Atlessa

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Re: War. War never changes.
« Reply #28 on: June 07, 2015, 11:51:34 PM »

Third one is a marketing point and a valid one, a primarily male dominated market is going to pay more attention (ie spend more money, which is the entire point) to products featuring strong male leads, it's a psychology issue really that is something that's going to have to change over time through the introduction of more stronger and universally identifiable female protagonists and characters, it's not overt sexism to identify more with your own gender, regardless of how it's spun.



By that logic, a game like 'Dead or Alive Xtreme Pinball XXX'  should sell somewhere between zero and fourteen copies at most.


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Offline Stahlseele

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Re: War. War never changes.
« Reply #29 on: June 08, 2015, 01:46:24 AM »
As the Band Psychostick put it so eloquently:"Because Boobs!"
'any kind of discussion of randomness ALWAYS WILL EQUATE to being able to critically hit a mech's reactor by firing a micro beam laser while facing 80 degrees to the side, shooting the ground, which would cause a random explosion which would randomly crit his entire team's reactors which would randomly cause the server itself to explode which would randomly generate a strange quark which would randomly hit the earth and randomly randomness randomfapp the shit fapp random!'
------------------------------
CPU: Intel Xeon i7 4820k
Memory: GSkill 2x8Gb DDR3 1333Mhz
Video: Inno 3D iChill GeForce GTX 780Ti Black Accelero Hybrid
H/SDD:Samsung Series 830 256GB/512GB, 1x WD Caviar Black 1TB, 1x WD Caviar Green 3TB
Monitor: 2x24" Widescreen 16:9 1920x1080 native resolution
Win7Ultimate64