Author Topic: MWLL version 0.8. Feedback.  (Read 4357 times)

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Offline ELH_Sudibor

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MWLL version 0.8. Feedback.
« on: October 31, 2016, 06:58:44 PM »
1. Mixing technology - Thunderbolt technology on a Clan.
Remove!  >:(

2. Change in balance-distance weapons. Balance was carefully verified during the long years of development by the developers.
Return distance weapons to version 0.7.1  :(

3. AC.
Return fire behavior of all AC to version 0.7.1  >:(

4. If you enter the HVAC, and then gives it features that will distinguish it.
HVAC - needs work.  ???

5. LongTom. Three options longtoma - nonsense.
Return longtoma one version (0.7.1). I liked the revised guidance system and target tracking. But I do not like that the main chamber does not rise up. I can not see what is in the mountains.  :(

6. Arrow IV. Like Arrow IV from the version 0.7.1
Damage on the area around the goal of reducing the value of these weapons.
One missile better than four missiles.  :(

If you really want to do damage to the area, then do the installation of missiles Thunder LRM.

7. Creation of new types of equipment configurations must be approached very seriously.
The emergence of such configurations as Demo (arrow 4), Thanatos (arrow 4), etc. - Causes confusion and questions about their appropriateness.  >:(

8. Economy obtaining loans.
Make easier to obtain a new rank!  :(

9. Return the 3 pulse for all pulsed lasers.  >:(

10. Return all configurations Prime - 0.7.1  >:(

11. Create Flac AC for Riflemen - nonsense.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I like:
Flying model.
HUD.
Camouflage - Super!
« Last Edit: November 01, 2016, 05:22:35 PM by ELH_Sudibor »
NBT-HC ELH

Offline RDL_Vitos

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Re: MWLL version 0.8. Complaints.
« Reply #1 on: October 31, 2016, 07:08:26 PM »
+

excluding 1,2,3, 9,10,11 point

p.s.: and make more HVAC mechs/
« Last Edit: November 01, 2016, 05:07:23 PM by RDL_Vitos »

Offline RDL_Vitos

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Re: MWLL version 0.8. Complaints.
« Reply #2 on: October 31, 2016, 07:14:35 PM »
And return Huit to the 0.6 version for combating ASF )
« Last Edit: November 01, 2016, 05:07:37 PM by RDL_Vitos »

Offline cest73

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Re: MWLL version 0.8. Complaints.
« Reply #3 on: October 31, 2016, 07:22:42 PM »
Are You saying it's all wrong  :-\ ?
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Offline Star Wraith

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Re: MWLL version 0.8. Complaints.
« Reply #4 on: October 31, 2016, 09:47:04 PM »
1. Mixing technology - Thunderbolt technology on a Clan.
Remove!  >:(
Technically they aren't even IS weapons. They are supposed to be Solaris Arena only weapons

Offline Bill

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Re: MWLL version 0.8. Complaints.
« Reply #5 on: November 01, 2016, 12:49:40 AM »
I've an easy solution to all your complaints Subor, just go play 7.1  ::)

2. Change in balance-distance weapons. Balance was carefully verified during the long years of development by the developers.
Return distance weapons to version 0.7.1  :(

As far as I'm aware play testing for this build has been going on for just a little under a year. This isn't some rapidly cobbled together list of changes done for the thrill of it.  And furthermore balance was never really one of old MWLL strongest suits, all those gentleman's agreements we'd have to make for organized play should testify to that.

But seriously dude, you made a list of demands, not suggestions. Barely explained yourself (I understand English isn't your mother tongue, but a little more effort man. Является ли Google Translate действительно так плохо?). It's basically looks like you're pissing over these changes for the sole reason that you don't like them personally, and I think you and I know just how likely that is to motivate people (people who have been hard at work for over a year in secret for the benefit of a game that was in all intents and purposes dead in the water) to coming to your point of view.

So yeah first point really, if what you're after is 7.1 values, it's still there. Hell you could likely have a more locally hosted server for all you wondrous patrons of the the eastern frontiers solely for that purpose.

Also:
8. Economy obtaining loans.
Make easier to obtain a new rank!
I am laughing for real right now.

Offline Warlord Kentax

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Re: MWLL version 0.8. Complaints.
« Reply #6 on: November 01, 2016, 01:25:21 AM »
3. AC.
Return fire behavior of all AC to version 0.7.1  >:(

Why?
AC2s are actually good now. Long range weapons need to have high burst damage, otherwise they suck. UAC2s fire fast in order to be used as AA, but standard AC2s sucked at AA in 0.7.1 and they still suck at it now, but at least they are good at hitting ground targets now.

6. Arrow IV. Like Arrow IV from the version 0.7.1
Damage on the area around the goal of reducing the value of these weapons.
One missile better than four missiles.  :(

They still do a lot of damage and being a cluster missile is canon. They are also useful in SA now. Generally feedback has been good on the new Arrow4 so I think you might be in the minority here.

8. Economy obtaining loans.
Make easier to obtain a new rank!  :(

Yes please, you are sooooo right. It's way, way too difficult to rank up right now and 10k limited donations makes it difficult to help out players that are low rank.

9. Return the 3 pulse for all pulsed lasers.  >:(

No, thank you. The more pulses there are the more like beam lasers they are. They were rather redundant in the old version. As much as I don't like how fast they recharge right now, they are way better than they were before. Beam lasers you have to hold on target for really long. By limiting pulse lasers to 2 pulses, you dont have to hold your aim for as long.

I like:
Flying model.
HUD.
Camouflage - Super!

Me too. I really like those changes, they are some of the best changes we got from this patch.

Also, could you change the name of the treat to "MWLL version 0.8.0 Feedback" or "Pros and Cons" or "Good and Bad"
I'm sure there's more things people have to say that is bad (but that's true in all of life), but it would be nice to make this the place for good things too. The mod team worked really hard on this and I don't want them to get depressed because all they hear are bad things :P
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Offline Bill

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Re: MWLL version 0.8. Complaints.
« Reply #7 on: November 01, 2016, 02:21:36 AM »
The mod team worked really hard on this and I don't want them to get depressed because all they hear are bad things :P

A less sarcastic approach to what I was saying  ;D

Offline Star Wraith

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Re: MWLL version 0.8. Complaints.
« Reply #8 on: November 01, 2016, 02:24:00 AM »
I like:
Flying model.
HUD.
Camouflage - Super!
Me too. I really like those changes, they are some of the best changes we got from this patch.
Ha, looks like the new dev team got some really good HUD designer  ;D

8. Economy obtaining loans.
Make easier to obtain a new rank!
I am laughing for real right now.
Sudibor has a point. First ranks are ridicolously long now. This problem leads to an even bigger difference between losing team and winning team. What is happening right now is that most of the time we have one team running in Warhammers and Madcats, while the other team is still in Osiris and Chimeras. And I am pretty sure noone wants that.
Hopefully this will be fixed in the next patch, I guess

Offline Xesle

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Re: MWLL version 0.8. Complaints.
« Reply #9 on: November 01, 2016, 03:04:53 AM »
1.  As mentioned previously thunderbolts are an armament that in canon exists only on solaris, so who cares if it appears on both IS and Clan assets?  The only asset they were on for years was a clan ASF before the Corsair was finally introduced.

2.  I too would like to have Tbolt range returned to its previous 1km range, I haven't really noticed enough of a difference with anything else to comment.

3.  As I said in the release thread, I wish only for AC behavior to be consistent.  Don't make some fire bursts and others fully automatic, make them all one or the other.

4.  The only asset I've used thus far equipped with any HVACs was the HVAC10 Hollander.  I'm not exactly sure what you're suggesting here but it felt a bit lackluster to me, a gauss rifle that does less damage and travels slower.  Only benefit I'm aware of is lower cost.

5.  You don't like there being multiple versions of the LT is all I can decipher from this.  "Can not see what is in the mountains."  You wot mate? 

6.  0.8 arrows don't seem any more powerful or weak to me than they were before.  They're a little harder to hide from because of their higher firing arc, but anybody with a brain knew to turn their huit around pre 0.8 so that the missiles would take a higher arc anyways.

7.  A4 Demo is a canon configuration and the thanatos was originally designed to be an omni so its not so farfetched for me to believe it can fit one.  According to canon HGauss rifles can't be fitted on arms but the MWLL Thanatos has had one for years but I don't hear much complaining about that.

8.  Agreed.  I think the current pricing and progression is too slow.

9.  Agreed.  The new pulse lasers feel lackluster to me too. I classify them with the new AC5s, they just don't feel satisfying to use.

10.  The only one I've noticed that is radically different is the owens, and I don't think it had any business carrying dual LRM 15s before.  You still offer respectable damage with the quick firing LRM5s and utility with the C3 and TAG.

11.  I haven't used flak AC5s yet, if they are automatic like the flak AC2s then sure.

« Last Edit: November 01, 2016, 03:22:33 AM by Xesle »

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Offline xInVicTuSx

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Re: MWLL version 0.8. Complaints.
« Reply #10 on: November 01, 2016, 06:34:12 AM »
Quote
1. Mixing technology - Thunderbolt technology on a Clan.
Remove!  >:(
So I guess you've never noticed that the Tbolts were on the Sulla for years, even before they were on any IS vehicle?

There is currently ONE Huit that uses Tbolts for the clan. I do not plan on putting them on any clan mechs.
Quote
2. Change in balance-distance weapons. Balance was carefully verified during the long years of development by the developers.
Return distance weapons to version 0.7.1  :(

Not sure what you're talking about here. Only range change was on the LPLs and CSSRM, the LPLs have always sucked and the CSSRM has to keep up with all the ATMs and new CLRMS.


Quote
3. AC.
Return fire behavior of all AC to version 0.7.1  >:(

No. UAC5 AC5, UAC2, AC2, and the AC10 were all complete garbage in 0.7.1.

The AC5 class was designed for more up front damage so it can trade shots and then get into cover at its intended range (800m).
The AC2 class had to be split between a sniper class (what I wanted) with high up front damage long cool down, and the UAC2 that fires a constant stream for AA purposes (what everyone wanted since 0.6).
You want the AC10 to be a total waste of tonnage again? Why?

Quote
4. If you enter the HVAC, and then gives it features that will distinguish it.
HVAC - needs work.  ???

Why? The Hypervelocity weapons have one goal, more range. This is to help keep up with the range advantage the Clans have always had.
It isn't supposed to be able to use any special ammos so there aren't any excuses to make them behave exotically.
Its a rare weapon on select platforms fulfilling a very specific role. The Gauss does more damage than the HVAC10 but weighs more and is less viable if forced into a brawl.
Its a perfect weapon for something like the Bushwacker Prime that is meant to be able to engage decently at any range.

Quote
5. LongTom. Three options longtoma - nonsense.
Return longtoma one version (0.7.1). I liked the revised guidance system and target tracking. But I do not like that the main chamber does not rise up. I can not see what is in the mountains.  :(

How often are you shooting up into mountains? >_>
The problem with  the camera was before if you try to mortar fire or fire at longer ranges you couldn't see what you were shooting at and it was a massive pain.
I will look into some go between so that the camera can look up but not so far that it loses sight of what is infront of it.
Also, whats the problem with the variants again? You do know the Standard variant is the exact 0.7.1 Longtom right?


Quote
6. Arrow IV. Like Arrow IV from the version 0.7.1
Damage on the area around the goal of reducing the value of these weapons.
One missile better than four missiles.  :(

If you really want to do damage to the area, then do the installation of missiles Thunder LRM.

No. This was discussed and tested at length. The old Arrows were bully weapons that were best at instagibbing targets they had no business hitting in the first place.
The new design functions as ARTILLERY, not an assassin missile. The new design functions almost identically to the old when shooting anything slower than 86kph.
Where it will struggle is against single fast moving scouts, as it should. It will also be much better against groups, you know like ARTILLERY is meant to be.


Quote
7. Creation of new types of equipment configurations must be approached very seriously.
The emergence of such configurations as Demo (arrow 4), Thanatos (arrow 4), etc. - Causes confusion and questions about their appropriateness.  >:(

Only because you have a narrow idea of what the asset is supposed to do.
The Arrow Demo is canon and should've been in the game for years as a cheap alternative for the IS to the arrow huits on Clan.
The Thanatos is the lone example of high tech speed in the IS heavy class, it can use its speed and maneuverability to reach positions the slow arrow catapult cannot. Its design HAS to be the most flexible of all heavies because it has to fill so many roles.

Quote
8. Economy obtaining loans.
Make easier to obtain a new rank!  :(

Might try and lower the first rank a bit. However the second rank was always skipped for years because it was so easy to get, it will still take awhile to get the third rank.


Quote
9. Return the 3 pulse for all pulsed lasers.  >:(

Why? Its condensed into 2 shots now which is far easier for the user. I didn't just chop off the third pulse, I added all that damage and heat into the 2, so  you don't have to stare at your target as long and don't have to worry about spreading the damage as much. Further, they still occasionally fire 3 pulses due to the bug, whereas before they did 4. Until we fix that bug this is the best solution.

Quote
10. Return all configurations Prime - 0.7.1  >:(

Justification? Surely not canon. The only asset I know of that moved away from canon was the MKII, and that is because it was so heavily punished by our build rules it had to be tweaked to add viability.
Almost every other change has been towards the correct canon builds.
There is the Atlas, but who says the shitty AS7-K is the "prime"? The AS7-D is still there on the D variant, its just semantics.
The Awesome? The Awesome is the AWS- 9M, the variant that should've been the prime in the first place. The old Awesome prime was a weird mechwarrior4 variant that was not even well executed.
The Huit? The new one is the Huit prime. You want AA? Take the Huit F, which should be easier to use and function better than the old ACboat Huit at AA.
The bushwacker? The bushwacker was never canon because it had free tons to work with, before it put the extra tonnage into LRm10s instead of LRM5s. Yet the AC10 was always bizarre on it because letting things get close enough to use it meant you were hardly getting a chance to use the LRMs, with the HVAC10 its a logical choice that allows the bushwhacker to engage from 1000m all the way to 150m.
The Hollander? Closer to the canon than it was before. Though not quite there, but an SSRM2 feels pretty worthless on it.


Quote
11. Create Flac AC for Riflemen - nonsense.
So I'm guessing by this you mean you want a x4 Flak5 Partisan Prime clone? Why not take the Partisan Prime?
Or you could just take the Rifleman B with its x2 LBX10 and x4 AC2Flak that will be more flexible and relevant against ground targets as well as aircraft.



@Xelse



2. They still fly out to 1000m. They just don't lock to 1000m. They didn't lock at all before (though they were supposed to).

3. I never did quite understand why people imagined the ACs as just bigger and bigger versions of the exact same weapon when it was always stated they were all kinds of weapons.
   I'm not sure why consistency is a big deal. Its more important to me that each class has a role that it fills well.

4. They have two benefits over a Gauss; they're two tons lighter, and they are better in a brawl if forced into that.

9. As I said before, they will stay until we fix the stray pulse bug and then we will go from there.

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Offline mechlessar

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Re: MWLL version 0.8. Complaints.
« Reply #11 on: November 01, 2016, 09:57:33 AM »
Quote
8. Economy obtaining loans.
Make easier to obtain a new rank!  :(

Might try and lower the first rank a bit. However the second rank was always skipped for years because it was so easy to get, it will still take awhile to get the third rank.

No! That's not what we meant. The ranking is too slow that affect the gameplay very seriously. First, when ranking too slow, you will becoming more rushed to charged at enemies due to match time limitation, and becoming more lesser teamwork just for grinding EXP on your own, "and this new update makes me more on using LRM's than SRM; Not my playstyle (Me style short-medium range) ". Second, when the ranking is slow, many new players or some players like me are forced to return to base more frequently just to repair mechs or vehicles that will wasting more time than helping teammates on battlefield.

And even using Flamer, doesn't give you much EXP or support points to rank up, I've tried Flamer on Inferno map, give up flamer and choosing SRM or LRM now. :(

Edit: When I accidentally suicide, my score go to -800 than -50. Tried to quit and rejoin the same server, still give me that negative scores that really 99.9% impossible to rank up further. Just stuck at INT or VLT forever until the match ends.
« Last Edit: November 01, 2016, 10:03:25 AM by mechlessar »

Offline xInVicTuSx

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Re: MWLL version 0.8. Complaints.
« Reply #12 on: November 01, 2016, 10:37:17 AM »
We could increase the rate at which you gain rank without decreasing the rank requirements themselves. The reason for the rank changes was to even the rate at which you gain each rank, as there were weird gaps and deadzones followed by ranks being stuffed together and thus completely skipping many assets. It did globally (with the exception of top ranks) increase rank requirements across the board, which is what you're experiencing. Doesn't seem unreasonable to increase rank gain rate somewhat, though we will have to find it in the lua scripts, there is a ton of dead unused code to sort through in there.

The flamer is a special case. The flamer itself does very little damage itself, but overheats the opponent. Unfortunately the scoring system has never been set up to recognize this, so when your opponent blows up from overheating, you're neither credited the kill nor given much money. It has always been like this, and would take some concerted effort to get it into the code.

Accidental suicide leading to large loss of rank is an old bug we're still looking into and is not intended.
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Offline mechlessar

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Re: MWLL version 0.8. Complaints.
« Reply #13 on: November 01, 2016, 11:28:24 AM »
"We could increase the rate at which you gain rank without decreasing the rank requirements themselves."

Yeah, that's all I really wanted. :)
Thx for the answer!

Anyway, is still Hunchback still in your radar?

Offline Thunderbird

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Re: MWLL version 0.8. Complaints.
« Reply #14 on: November 01, 2016, 12:32:00 PM »
to be honest, i'd still prefer 3 or even 4 pulses on the pulse lasers - provided they would be condensed into the same burn time - because it just looks better
lowering their burn time seems like a good decision to me though, i like it

though i'd still prefer pulse lasers ala Mechwarrior 3  8)
i know they are not quite canon, but... me like
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