Author Topic: Licensing in MWLL  (Read 5150 times)

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Offline lordrushx1

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Re: Licensing in MWLL
« Reply #30 on: July 26, 2008, 09:27:32 PM »
Isn't this now a different aspect since Jordan W. has retained the licensing?

I should have a macro for this, it's really tiresome repeating this over and over again.

Jordan Weisman did NOT purchase back his former IP from Microsoft. He acquired a commercial license for it. He's allowed to work with the IP and earn money with it if he wishes, which is the main difference to our license. Our license, however, has not been revoked by Microsoft, so we're not overly concerned.

My Bad....I was not aware this was a repeatable conversation piece. Still combing the forums here.
Nevertheless, Thanks for the info =O)

Offline ToeBall

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Re: Licensing in MWLL
« Reply #31 on: July 27, 2008, 01:23:58 AM »
Don't make AoP post links... he'll do it man! He's crazy!!!

Offline (AU 6) Redwolf

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Re: Licensing in MWLL
« Reply #32 on: July 27, 2008, 01:47:42 AM »
But, that's not true... not at all.  FASA Corporation did NOT sell the BattleTech IP to Microsoft, and Microsoft does not own BattleTech any more than it owns Shadowrun, Earthdawn, Vor: The Maelstrom or any of its other creations.  Microsoft OWNED, past-tense, the electronic rights to produce games in the BattleTech universe.  Now Smith and Tinker OWN, present-tense, those rights, though they are still governed and overseen in every legal sense of the word by FASA Corporation, which is not defunct, though it maintains all legal rights to these properties, paper and electronic.

Offline lordrushx1

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Re: Licensing in MWLL
« Reply #33 on: July 27, 2008, 03:22:30 AM »
That was also my impression.

Offline ToeBall

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Re: Licensing in MWLL
« Reply #34 on: July 27, 2008, 06:16:26 AM »
*Sigh*

http://www.smithandtinker.com/news/
Quote
Smith & Tinker is pleased to announce that it has licensed from Microsoft the electronic entertainment rights for Mr. Weisman's previous creations of MechWarrior, Shadowrun, Crimson Skies and the other properties of the FASA catalog. We're not quite ready to announce our plans for each property, but please be assured that our goal is to surprise and delight old fans, while welcoming new fans to these fantastic worlds.

There would be no need to license anything from Microsoft if they didn't own the IP. Generealy, though I admit, not always, licenses are not transferable, or must be tranfered by permission of the owning party.

What I find interesting is if you look at the job requirements listed on their website, everything they're doing is web based, even to the point of sacrificing performance on the local machine to run over a web distribution compatible system like .NET or Java. They may be doing a clientless WoW with one of those IP's, which, I must admit is an interesting solution for the private server/update client issues faced by MMORPGs like WoW.
« Last Edit: July 27, 2008, 06:22:42 AM by ToeBall »

Offline (AU 6) Redwolf

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Re: Licensing in MWLL
« Reply #35 on: July 27, 2008, 07:00:40 AM »
ToeBall, with all due respect, sir, I realize what you're trying to tell us, here, but the Gamasutra interview and every other piece of news across the internet indicates that Jordan retrieved the licenses, and that "licensed from Microsoft" is actually an inappropriate choice of words, even if it is the only choice to be made, and that Microsoft really doesn't have anything do with ANY former FASA properties, anymore.

From my standpoint -though I'm biased because I've always loved FASAs games, so you might have to take what I'm saying with a grain of salt- Jordan and FASA own the paper AND electronic IPs, period.  I find it interesting to note that Microsoft initially purchased the Earthdawn electronic IP, but almost immediately "sold it back" to FASA.  In this particular case, I believe the rest of the IPs were also "sold back", which would still take power away from Microsoft.

Have you guys tried talking to SnT about it, yet?  It may be that Jordan and crew don't know what you're doing here.  If they do, I hope they approve, and if they don't but learn about it, I still hope they approve.  It's high time this community had something we could play to keep BattleTech alive.

Offline ToeBall

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Re: Licensing in MWLL
« Reply #36 on: July 27, 2008, 10:36:55 AM »
ran a whois on mechwarrior.com, Microsoft owns it still.
http://whois.domaintools.com/mechwarrior.com

if you go to mechwarrior.com, it will show up as an msn search regardless of whic site you've got configured as your default search engine. I'm not saying anything specifically is right or wrong, but the evidence points to Microsoft still owning the IP.

Offline AoP

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Re: Licensing in MWLL
« Reply #37 on: July 27, 2008, 10:45:04 AM »
Have you guys tried talking to SnT about it, yet? 

No, why would we?
Our legal 'business' partner in this whole thing is a multi-billion dollar company with more people employed in their legal department than we have volunteers contributing to this mod.
Also, ever considered that Gamasutra and the likes might have been using the wrong wording, mixing up "acquiring a commercial license" and "buying back the full rights to the IPs"?

'inappropriate choice of words' or not, it's what S&T state on their website and, as said, our license has never been revoked. If something's wrong here, they're free to go talk to MS about it for giving us the go ahead.

Offline Tiger842

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Re: Licensing in MWLL
« Reply #38 on: July 27, 2008, 10:56:22 AM »
Kick his ass Seabass!

Offline (AU 6) Redwolf

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Re: Licensing in MWLL
« Reply #39 on: July 27, 2008, 04:05:35 PM »
'inappropriate choice of words' or not, it's what S&T state on their website and, as said, our license has never been revoked. If something's wrong here, they're free to go talk to MS about it for giving us the go ahead.
Oh, I agree with you 100%, and I'm not trying to challenge your license to produce this game at all.  As I'm not a snitch, I've not spoken to anyone anywhere about anything concerning MWLL, and won't... it's just not my place.

My suggestion to talk to SnT was purely out of curiosity, and my argument against Microsoft still owning the electronic IPs -they DO NOT own the paper IPs, period- is based on everything I've read across the internet, my interpretation so to speak, and it's motivated by my desire to see Microstupid gone from anything having to do with any FASA property.  They've screwed up BattleTech enough with Mech Assault and MechWarrior IV, and I feel strongly enough about it that I compare them to SoE getting hold of the IP for Star Wars Galaxies and how they've screwed that five ways from Sunday, and I want to see them gone.

So, understand me, I'm not trying to challenge you guys, and I'm not trying to throw stones at glass houses -though I'm pretty certain this one is made of Ferrocrete-, I just wanted to make sure the record is straight and we are all on the same sheet of music.

Offline Landros Radick

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Re: Licensing in MWLL
« Reply #40 on: July 27, 2008, 10:57:33 PM »
'inappropriate choice of words' or not, it's what S&T state on their website and, as said, our license has never been revoked. If something's wrong here, they're free to go talk to MS about it for giving us the go ahead.
Oh, I agree with you 100%, and I'm not trying to challenge your license to produce this game at all.  As I'm not a snitch, I've not spoken to anyone anywhere about anything concerning MWLL, and won't... it's just not my place.

My suggestion to talk to SnT was purely out of curiosity, and my argument against Microsoft still owning the electronic IPs -they DO NOT own the paper IPs, period- is based on everything I've read across the internet, my interpretation so to speak, and it's motivated by my desire to see Microstupid gone from anything having to do with any FASA property.  They've screwed up BattleTech enough with Mech Assault and MechWarrior IV, and I feel strongly enough about it that I compare them to SoE getting hold of the IP for Star Wars Galaxies and how they've screwed that five ways from Sunday, and I want to see them gone.

So, understand me, I'm not trying to challenge you guys, and I'm not trying to throw stones at glass houses -though I'm pretty certain this one is made of Ferrocrete-, I just wanted to make sure the record is straight and we are all on the same sheet of music.


Myth:
Smith and Tinker now own the Electronic license to make electronic versions of: Renegade Legion, ShadowRun, MechWarrior, and Crimson Skies (and I think one more IP)

 
The Truth?: False. Microsoft owns and retains the IP's that they acquired when buying FASA Interactive (Not FASA Corporation) and has not changed hands since the purchase in 1998/1999. It has been mis-reported on almost every single website since the announcement (including MekTek), that Smith and Tinker now completely owns the IP. The BattleTech IP for electronic versions of games is held by Electronic Arts previous publishers of what would have been Multiplayer BattleTech 3025.

*Edit1: Renegade Legion is not a Microsoft Trademark
*Edit2: Electronic Arts ownership for Multiplayer Battletech lapsed
« Last Edit: July 28, 2008, 02:38:41 AM by Landros Radick »

Offline (AU 6) Redwolf

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Re: Licensing in MWLL
« Reply #41 on: July 27, 2008, 11:34:32 PM »
You're wrong.  'Nuff said.

Offline Landros Radick

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Re: Licensing in MWLL
« Reply #42 on: July 28, 2008, 12:55:41 AM »
You're right, I am wrong... Renegade Legion isn't a registered Trademark of Microsoft so Smith and Tinker only licensed Mechwarrior, Crimson Skies and Shadowrun from Microsoft. I'd also like to clarify, I am purely talking about the electronic/videogame licenses. No paper stuff here.

As for the rest of it, I see nothing of actual printed evidence both from Microsoft or Smith and Tinker to refute anything that I've said.

You'll have to go against this evidence (which has since been updated as of December 13th 2007, two whole months after Smith and Tinker supposedly purchased the entirety of those properties):
http://www.microsoft.com/library/toolbar/3.0/trademarks/en-us.mspx (Look under M to find Mechwarrior, C for Crimson Skies and S for ShadowRun if it's not apparent enough)

And the quote from Smith and Tinker itself:
Quote
Smith & Tinker is pleased to announce that it has licensed from Microsoft the electronic entertainment rights for Mr. Weisman's previous creations of MechWarrior, Shadowrun, Crimson Skies and the other properties of the FASA catalog. We’re not quite ready to announce our plans for each property, but please be assured that our goal is to surprise and delight old fans, while welcoming new fans to these fantastic worlds.

Intellectual Properties aren't cheap. Even if a company isn't doing anything with them, it can still cost quite a bit to acquire them. Case in point is also when Interplay was going under, the Fallout IP fetched a good 5 million. It's also worthy to note here that Bethesda was working as a Licensee on Fallout 3 and only recently decided to purchase the property itself: http://www.joystiq.com/2007/04/12/great-geiger-bethesda-buys-fallout-ip/
« Last Edit: July 28, 2008, 01:21:48 AM by Landros Radick »

Offline Landros Radick

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Re: Licensing in MWLL
« Reply #43 on: July 28, 2008, 02:29:08 AM »
And the last piece of evidence that will probably put the nail in this coffin, United States Patent and Trademark Office:
http://tess2.uspto.gov/bin/showfield?f=doc&state=e6fu28.3.8

Other than that, Wizkids owns the non-videogame trademark:
http://tess2.uspto.gov/bin/showfield?f=doc&state=e6fu28.3.2

Quote
From USPTO: Entertainment services, namely, production and distribution of motion pictures and television programs; production of audio visual programs and interactive audio visual programs in the fields of cartoons and fiction; providing audio visual programs and interactive audio visual programs in the fields of cartoons and fiction via wireless devices and the Internet; animation production services; electronic publishing services, namely, publication of text, graphics, and audio works of others on the Internet and on CD and DVD featuring fiction and cartoons; written text editing; entertainment in the nature of role playing game tournaments and fictional combat game tournaments, excluding online role playing game tournaments and online fictional combat game tournaments; a live-action, comedy, drama and/or animated motion picture theatrical films featuring fictional heroic and villainous characters

I was also wrong again, the Trademark that Electronic Arts had either expired or been transferred over to Microsoft shortly after the death of MPBT3025 as they also hold the trademark for Battletech videogames:
http://tess2.uspto.gov/bin/showfield?f=doc&state=e6fu28.4.1
« Last Edit: July 28, 2008, 02:32:09 AM by Landros Radick »

Offline Cujo

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Re: Licensing in MWLL
« Reply #44 on: July 28, 2008, 02:45:21 AM »
I'm taking an IP law course next semester, can't wait :).