Author Topic: League support for MWLL  (Read 4254 times)

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Offline matty^

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Re: League support for MWLL
« Reply #45 on: January 10, 2009, 12:50:49 PM »
Onlashoc .. did you know that we were in the same clan back then? My name on Mplayer was GB_MatthiasG   ;)



Offline OnLashoc

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Re: League support for MWLL
« Reply #46 on: January 10, 2009, 08:49:41 PM »
Yes :)

Offline Loonatic

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Re: League support for MWLL
« Reply #47 on: January 14, 2009, 07:40:45 PM »
Yah I used to know a guy before i played ISWars who always used to dragged into his new clan schemes and always seemed to be Sakhan or Oath/lorester and that was a year or two ago before I lost my MW4 Mercs (and I am 16 right now). But if i got into a new clan i would settle for a mid to low lvl starting position and work my way up in the ranks.

That's how I did it :)

I worked my way up from the bottom.

Work your way up the ladder.  Then start recruiting your own guys.  Train those guys.. then you got your own squad. :)

Good ole days..  :'(

I'd love to do that myself.  It's always more funner to earn your stripes, as they say.  It depends upon who wants to run the DC team in the league though.  I want to be part of a very strong, organized and active DC, so if I have to be the one to run it I will...but I really don't want to.  I actually enjoy influencing things behind the scenes more than standing in the (often brutally harsh) spotlight.  A clan/guild leader can never make everyone happy, and it's a huge burden to run things sometimes.  I'd rather just lend a good leader my help and do my best to be a valuable part of the team.  But as I stated before, the DC is my favoritest faction, and I want it to ooze awesomeness in whichever league I join.  I fervently wish to see the banner of Kurita waving forever over the Star Lord's throne. :D  Of course I expect quite a few other folks would love to see other flags in that spot, so let the fun begin!

Offline xNeoThoRx

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Re: League support for MWLL
« Reply #48 on: January 15, 2009, 12:18:46 AM »
Yah I used to know a guy before i played ISWars who always used to dragged into his new clan schemes and always seemed to be Sakhan or Oath/lorester and that was a year or two ago before I lost my MW4 Mercs (and I am 16 right now). But if i got into a new clan i would settle for a mid to low lvl starting position and work my way up in the ranks.

That's how I did it :)

I worked my way up from the bottom.

Work your way up the ladder.  Then start recruiting your own guys.  Train those guys.. then you got your own squad. :)

Good ole days..  :'(

I'd love to do that myself.  It's always more funner to earn your stripes, as they say.  It depends upon who wants to run the DC team in the league though.  I want to be part of a very strong, organized and active DC, so if I have to be the one to run it I will...but I really don't want to.  I actually enjoy influencing things behind the scenes more than standing in the (often brutally harsh) spotlight.  A clan/guild leader can never make everyone happy, and it's a huge burden to run things sometimes.  I'd rather just lend a good leader my help and do my best to be a valuable part of the team.  But as I stated before, the DC is my favoritest faction, and I want it to ooze awesomeness in whichever league I join.  I fervently wish to see the banner of Kurita waving forever over the Star Lord's throne. :D  Of course I expect quite a few other folks would love to see other flags in that spot, so let the fun begin!

Either as a leader of a follower.  I almost always tell it has it is..

:)


Offline Thoman Coston

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Re: League support for MWLL
« Reply #49 on: January 15, 2009, 01:43:56 AM »
Geez guys, you derailed this thread way off topic.  :o

Back to topic: League support for MWLL

Actually, I have a project that falls within the scope of "other leagues" you guys previously mentioned...
http://www.lancecommand.com

The league is very much IN PROGRESS, and of course I am waiting on some relevant data from the MWLL guys, so I have been reluctant to put it out there in the community forum.  But it's a little different...a bit "open-ended" in design based on economic and territorial control, but on a small scale in individual campaign maps that are auto-generated by the system.  I think you are going to like it.  ;D

<snip>
A little history...most of you probably don't know me, but I'm the original MW4VL rules admin.  XFracture (an old 13th Wolf Guards buddy) and I hashed out that VL ruleset together, although he always did have the last say, lol. ;) 

Definitely looks interesting and promising, I enjoy both ladders and planetary leagues. While we usually have plenty ladder leagues popping up when a game becomes popular (MW4 heyday, plenty of leagues to choose from), a good planetary league is a rarity due to its more complex nature. NBTM/HC has been a very good planetary league (good job by DP), but if there are more good ones, I definitely would be interested.

I always think the more leagues, the merrier. It only means that the leagues will be pushed to offer higher quality with strong rules implementation and discipline.  Majority of decent people will tend to pick and stay longer in leagues that are solid and run with strong hands if they have the options to choose from.
Taken from your website: http://www.lancecommand.com/
"If we actually get the league up and running, we may go ahead and complete the original Mechwarrior 4 design"

Do you have a more specific detail on it, that is not confidential. I would be interested to read the rule set if you already have a draft of it.

Btw, I used to enjoy VL a lot during the heyday of MW4, I wonder if XFracture is thinking to come back and restart VL  8)

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Offline OnLashoc

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Re: League support for MWLL
« Reply #50 on: January 15, 2009, 02:37:13 AM »
Not a chance. ^^

When I began working on VGL, I talked to XF and he offered to sell me the MW4VL coding for like $2000. I told him there was no way I could come up with that much money, especially for a shrinking community. However I figured it would be easier and less exspensive to find the coding out there, and modify it to fit the purpose and feel of what was desired. Thats how I came across the coding for a Starfleet Command 2 league for sale for $200. A tenth of what VL was offered to me for.

I asked and asked XF to return to league running and he has been so happy with his ministry and designing, he has no drive or want to enter the MW4 scene again. I offered to pay for the hosting, and give him complete access so I didn't have to have any of the coding, and still he was not interested. So I told him of this other coding, and my desire to create a more user friendly, free forming version of VL with todays MW4 Player base in mind. I asked him if it was ok if I used the "Vengeance League", and He told me good luck, and wishes me the best.

So when http://www.vgl2.com was created, I had him check it out, he told me good job and though unnecessary, thanks for the honor.


Hopefully that answers your question, and if you would like to speak to XF himself, send me a PM and I will forward you his MSN Address.

Offline xNeoThoRx

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Re: League support for MWLL
« Reply #51 on: January 15, 2009, 03:58:14 AM »
Not a chance. ^^

When I began working on VGL, I talked to XF and he offered to sell me the MW4VL coding for like $2000. I told him there was no way I could come up with that much money, especially for a shrinking community. However I figured it would be easier and less exspensive to find the coding out there, and modify it to fit the purpose and feel of what was desired. Thats how I came across the coding for a Starfleet Command 2 league for sale for $200. A tenth of what VL was offered to me for.

I asked and asked XF to return to league running and he has been so happy with his ministry and designing, he has no drive or want to enter the MW4 scene again. I offered to pay for the hosting, and give him complete access so I didn't have to have any of the coding, and still he was not interested. So I told him of this other coding, and my desire to create a more user friendly, free forming version of VL with todays MW4 Player base in mind. I asked him if it was ok if I used the "Vengeance League", and He told me good luck, and wishes me the best.

So when http://www.vgl2.com was created, I had him check it out, he told me good job and though unnecessary, thanks for the honor.


Hopefully that answers your question, and if you would like to speak to XF himself, send me a PM and I will forward you his MSN Address.

If I had the money I'd buy the old VL coding..

but damn $2000? 

What is the minister smokin? lol

Offline Stormin'

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Re: League support for MWLL
« Reply #52 on: January 15, 2009, 10:56:51 AM »
If I had the money I'd buy the old VL coding..

but damn $2000? 

What is the minister smokin? lol

Although not very marketable, that is not much for the time it takes to bang this out from scratch.  I've spent countless hours on my little endeavour and I couldn't guess how many thousands of lines of code I have in it.  But this is just a hobby for me and I've never thought about getting paid for it.  Of course I don't think I'd ever give it away either. =\

Definitely looks interesting and promising, I enjoy both ladders and planetary leagues. While we usually have plenty ladder leagues popping up when a game becomes popular (MW4 heyday, plenty of leagues to choose from), a good planetary league is a rarity due to its more complex nature. NBTM/HC has been a very good planetary league (good job by DP), but if there are more good ones, I definitely would be interested.

I always think the more leagues, the merrier. It only means that the leagues will be pushed to offer higher quality with strong rules implementation and discipline.  Majority of decent people will tend to pick and stay longer in leagues that are solid and run with strong hands if they have the options to choose from.
Taken from your website: http://www.lancecommand.com/
"If we actually get the league up and running, we may go ahead and complete the original Mechwarrior 4 design"

Do you have a more specific detail on it, that is not confidential. I would be interested to read the rule set if you already have a draft of it.

Btw, I used to enjoy VL a lot during the heyday of MW4, I wonder if XFracture is thinking to come back and restart VL  8)

Thanks, I'm glad you are interested.  I apologize for the current poor look and function of the site.  Since there was something of a demand for Firefox users I've been trying to get it displaying correctly in that browser.  CSS compliance is a crock of crap.  And unfortunately, my rule set has not been transfered from my head to electronic media.  I have quite a few yellow pads though.

Honestly, I've spent a lot of time just trying to figure out what I was thinking years ago when I put the bulk of this together.  It's also been slow going as I have rewritten much of the code for streamlining, new PHP revisions, and a new server, and I don't have all the bugs worked out.  I can tell you that I had most of the engine written up to the point of designing a battle interface, which I thought was pretty snazzy.  It looks VERY similar to the drop screen from MW4, where you choose your lancemates, etc.  I had tried to implement as much of the MW4 look and feel into the league design.  It all worked on the back end using manual edits to the database (for the most part), but the front end GUI had not been completed.

The league also is not a planetary league, per se.  It's not really a ladder either.  If you really need an idea of what it's like, think of it as a war game simulator, almost a training tool.  There is no official BattleTech related territory that is fought over.  When a person wants to generate a campaign, he has an interface controlling certain aspects of the scenario by establishing limits on the randomizing engine.  For example maybe he wants a very mountainous campaign, a coastal campaign, deserts, alpine, etc, possibly with sharp altitude changes, as well as the size and shape of the campaign map.  The map is made up of hexes, each of which represents a different map in the game.  Some hexes are considered impassable (for land craft only), including extreme alpine and deep water.  I implemented different map shapes (triangles, inverted triangles, hexagons, rectangles) in case I wanted to find a way to link campain maps together in such a way that you could simulate an actual spherical object and actual ground warfare/strategy to take the whole thing.  That part I couldn't quite get to work out. 

Basically a player (with proper team priveleges) would create a campaign to his liking (you can run the randomizer over and over until you get a map that looks just right).  He determines maximum teams allowed (within map limits), minimum teams allowed, whether or not it is a private campaign or an open one, etc.  That campaign would then sit idle and untouched until the start criteria is met.  Each team is randomly dropped into one of the bases on the map, which have been placed according to what I considered to be logical positioning factors (for example, if the map generated a hex surrounded by several impassable hexes, it would register that as a likely candidate for the engine to drop a base.  Cities and industrial areas are selected in similar ways.  Your team would drop with mechs and other vehicles selected from your team's inventory, which remains persistent from campaign to campaign.  Basically you would move from hex to hex according to the movement allowed for whatever vehicle(s) you have selected, taking control of those territories.  Lighter mechs, vehicles, and infantry obviously could travel farther than assault class objects, but you would be limited by your slowest object in the group.  As you locate your enemies you can choose to fight, run, whatever.  A lot of strategy is involved based on the actual geography of the map, as well as the economic value of each territory controlled.  One of the options selected in the campaign creation is whether you want to have an open map, as though photographed from orbit, or a scenario with localized radar, which I thought would be much more fun.  Teams would have the option of forming alliances for the campaign.  The campaign would continue until all enemies were eliminated.

The persistent economy is based on "resource credits" (which was part of my contribution to VL's design) earned for territories controlled in campaigns, via sales on the black market, salvage, personal earnings in Solaris-style arena matches, etc.  Both players and teams maintain their own credits as well as their own equipment inventories.  A player can choose to allow their team to use equipment and/or credits from their personal inventory.  The system is kind of cool...it actually tracks each individual unit of equipment, even as it is sold or salvaged from player to player.  Each piece of equipement carries with it its battle history, a name bestowed upon it by its previous owner, all damage, etc.  I love the fact that you can possibly salvage your enemy's mech and use it against him in the next fight, even keeping the name he gave it, haha!  ;D  Would be a nice thing to rub in his face in the forums at the end of the day, and gives salvage almost something of a "trophy" value.

I think the last major item I was working on was a persistent weather system, which would actually move and change across the map similar to real weather.  If I remember correctly it was in real time, with a day and a night cycle.  I had thought about changing this up, considering the fact that some of us have limited hours to play, and could be stuck playing in the same cycle all the time.  Most of the match settings are pretty much determined by the system at the time of the drop.

There is territorial strategy, but also the ladder-like concept of personal/team victories and wealth.  So, like I said...it's somewhere in between.  Best way to think of it is a war game simulator, and all your mechwarrior buddies go have a drink together at the end of the day.  ;)

Anyway, that's the gist of it.  The thing really started out as a system I was designing in which individual Corps (sub-units) within the 88th could compete against each other in a non-ladder fashion.  It kind of blew up past that when I wrote the script for the map generator...

Hope that helps! 


Stormin'
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www.lancecommand.com

Offline Thoman Coston

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Re: League support for MWLL
« Reply #53 on: February 01, 2009, 02:24:24 AM »
Thanks for the description Storm, looks very interesting.
-----

In general on leagues, worth mentioning is also the availability of dedicated servers for games to get going in a timely manner.
One factor that contributed to driving away quite a few players from the zone ladder leagues was that it ate up too much time to get a game going, starting from bidding it, then agreeing on who got to host. Sometimes in extreme cases it took 1 hour to get a single drop going, so 1 hour of preparation for a 30 min play time is simply not worth it. People have better things to do than waste their time on a video game and will just walk away.

That is one thing that a league like NBT impressed me when I started playing there more than 4 years ago, game gets scheduled, then you book a server and on the day and time it was booked, server was ready. No bidding, no waiting on agreeing who gets to host. You come, play, leave -> less hassle.

I do understand that not every league can afford dedicated servers, but the league admins can have each team nominating 1 player of each team (if possible), that has the best machine and connection to be their default hoster in league matches. Or similar arrangements like that.


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Offline Stormin'

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Re: League support for MWLL
« Reply #54 on: February 01, 2009, 06:00:16 AM »
Thanks for the description Storm, looks very interesting.
-----

In general on leagues, worth mentioning is also the availability of dedicated servers for games to get going in a timely manner.
One factor that contributed to driving away quite a few players from the zone ladder leagues was that it ate up too much time to get a game going, starting from bidding it, then agreeing on who got to host. Sometimes in extreme cases it took 1 hour to get a single drop going, so 1 hour of preparation for a 30 min play time is simply not worth it. People have better things to do than waste their time on a video game and will just walk away.

That is one thing that a league like NBT impressed me when I started playing there more than 4 years ago, game gets scheduled, then you book a server and on the day and time it was booked, server was ready. No bidding, no waiting on agreeing who gets to host. You come, play, leave -> less hassle.

I do understand that not every league can afford dedicated servers, but the league admins can have each team nominating 1 player of each team (if possible), that has the best machine and connection to be their default hoster in league matches. Or similar arrangements like that.

That's a good point.  I certainly can't afford to offer dedicated servers.  Perhaps that would be a future discussion if the interest was there and people were willing to donate.  I think your point of nominating a standard team server is a good idea, and maybe by default hosting would go to the defending unit.  I've tried to remove all of the server settings from the process by having each of those settings determined by the automation.  At present all you do is specify what equipment is attacking where and at what time.  There is a battle interface all participants must log into prior to and during the drop, so there is some time required to make sure all pilots are present and what equipment has been chosen.  Of course, once MWLL opens that may all change.

I inadvertantly starting throwing some info and a couple of screenshots out on another thread:
http://www.mechlivinglegends.net/forum/index.php/topic,3285.msg41480.html#msg41480

If you have the interest take a look.


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www.lancecommand.com

Offline (AU 6) Redwolf

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Re: League support for MWLL
« Reply #55 on: February 05, 2009, 04:19:44 PM »
I'd love to do that myself.  It's always more funner to earn your stripes, as they say.  It depends upon who wants to run the DC team in the league though.  I want to be part of a very strong, organized and active DC,
Blech!  The Combine!?!?!  Sheesh, the Suns is the only way to go, man. :D  Actually, I'm a huge Merc, but I got my start with Davion, and prefer them as a result.

Quote
so if I have to be the one to run it I will...but I really don't want to.  I actually enjoy influencing things behind the scenes more than standing in the (often brutally harsh) spotlight.  A clan/guild leader can never make everyone happy, and it's a huge burden to run things sometimes.
Been there and done that, huh?  Me, too.

Quote
I'd rather just lend a good leader my help and do my best to be a valuable part of the team.
The guys that are usually the best leaders are the ones who would rather not be, but are always active in their faction.
_______________________________________________________
Stormin', I'm coming here from your forum, reading from the Wolfsbane Checking In link, and I have to tell you that I'm enormously impressed.  If you can bring this to fruition, I'm there; every BT game I've tried to play, except for what MekTek and MegaMek have done, and what MWLL promises to deliver, has flopped.  I've finally even given up on IS3025, I think, especially since the server is no longer available.  People get going on something they're very passionate about, but after a while they drop out because of the pain of trying to do it all by themselves, or just a few friends that, invariably, have creative differences, or begin lacking time, or whatever.

If I may make a recommendation... and, I'm not trying to be mean, I'm trying to support your project in the only way I can, right now, advice... either drop the forums on LanceCommand altogether, before too many people sign up and get rolling on how you should do this and do that, or restrict the forums so you're the only one that can open a topic.  Player feedback is very important, but for every tiny nugget of positive player feedback you get, in the way of a single post, you have pages of posts from people complaining and arguing, talking down to you or treating you like crap because the project all of a sudden becomes 'theirs' instead of your own passion, whether they could program their own name or not.  Lance Command looks, as much as MechWarrior: Living Legends, like a project that is so very much worth cutting out the customers until it's time for the customers to get involved.

Look, games are made by companies all the time who never announce them until it's time for the game to be released through marketing, and those games are bought up all the time and played through, and though there are some complaints, they are a lot fewer than on pre-release forums like these.  If you build it, they will come.

'Nuff said.