Perfect Battle Layout

[(TLL) Heretic]

@Gheist, with you on that one, plsu one more specific situation, bottlenecks and Campers.  That's where the Aero's will shine, lots of nice static/slow targets to strafe and generally upset while the brawlers run in during the confusion, would like to see Aero's employed in 2s or 4s for maximum effect IMO.  Plus it would be lovely to see bombs attached to the ASF as well, just to dissuade static/camping combat (which is soo boring).

Hooray! and end to the camping Assaults of MW4 aka "I'm 100 tons and so's my mate, but we're going to hide behind a hill and just stay ther indefinitely with no further use of tactics and strategy"  Not any more......

EDIT: Typos

[Gray Death]

How will you survive then against a team of Battlemechs?

Depends on how playable the BA will be in the final game. But without serious support from your comrades in BA one alone will never have a chance against mechs.

Thats why i suggested 100+ players for a server match.

Many stars of BA will be required to engage a heavy or assault mech. And at least you should have a chance in defeating one.

If there are 16 players max. on each side then you could only have 4 full lances of mechs or 1 lance, 2 stars of elementals and 2 tanks.
That is not much for a battle on a large map of serveral square kilometers.

I think its 2 points of elementals your thinking of.

Anyway, 100s of players would change it into a MMO than anything else. If you want a BA MMO, go ask S&T to make one, because no matter how good our precious devs are, you need a lot of people to maintain a MMO.

A star is always 5 units. 5 elementals are forming a star. 5 mechs are forming a star. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clans_(BattleTech)#Ranks

And what i said was that the BA will be completely useless in a game where your oppenents pilot a mech. BA is easy prey even to the lightest of mechs.

NOBODY would go with the BA. Why the devs are integrating it into the mod?

The same applies for the tanks. Why would i go to battle in a tank if i can go in a mech?

You could defeat a mech with a lot of BA or tanks. Then you will need a lot of BA and/or tanks to win against the other team using mechs.

That would only make sense if the server supports 100 players on each team. Else nobody will even bother thinking of using BA or tanks in their teams because filling player slots with unusable units will ensure losing the match.

[Lupo]

I'm pretty sure that Mechs can't capture objectives and hence BA is needed for that.

Mind you, I walk into a base in a Warhammer, secure the area and then jump out and "cap" it. Anything nasty comes along I jump back into my mech, make bad guy go boom, jump out and continue capping. That's assuming my understanding of the game mechanics is even close to accurate.

In a sense then yes BA is kinda pointless (looks cool tho) but the other option is infantry which is just BA that goes to pulp faster. It'll all depend on just how much shit a BA can take from a mech to determine it's usefullness but, like other posts, it comes down to organization. Fly in a VTOL to spawn a bunch of BA at an objective and maybe the BA can hold off any mechs till help arrives. Spawn enough of them and they might take out a small mech.

Until we get in the drivers seat too many possibilities to guess at so trust that the DEVs are doing what they need to do.

Lupo

[Gray Death]

That would imply that the gameplay is similar to Crysis and the mech is just a playable vehicle like the battle tank is in Crysis.

And all players start as infantry with gun? 

That is not a nice thought...that would mean we would have Crysis and just a bunch of new vehicles and maps. 

Besides that if you are infantry or BA would be the same.  A hit by PPC, LL or ML would instantly destroy both unit types, tanks probably would sustain 2 PPC hits maximum. You would stand no chance at all against a heavy or even one medium mech fitted with PPC or LL.

[Diablo48]

That would imply that the gameplay is similar to Crysis and the mech is just a playable vehicle like the battle tank is in Crysis.

And all players start as infantry with gun? 

That is not a nice thought...that would mean we would have Crysis and just a bunch of new vehicles and maps. 

Besides that if you are infantry or BA would be the same.  A hit by PPC, LL or ML would instantly destroy both unit types, tanks probably would sustain 2 PPC hits maximum. You would stand no chance at all against a heavy or even one medium mech fitted with PPC or LL.

Someone has no clue how BA and Vehicles really work in BT.  For reference, the Elemental has 10 armor + 1 more for the trooper, which means that one elemental will take 3 Medium laser hits to kill or 2 PPC/LL hits assuming you are not using the Clan ERPPC, Clan HLL, or IS HPPC.

As for vehicles, they can mount an unlimited amount of armor, and it is all concentrated in 4 or 5 locations so depending on the design they can take more firepower to kill than a 'Mech.  Their weakness is that they suffer badly from critical hits through armor and hits to their drive systems, so you may not need to kill them to take them out of battle.  They also don't like heat based weapons like Flamers and Inferno missiles which can disable or kill them in a few shots.

As for MWLL, the BA is used to replace the pilot so that you don't have to fight on the ground as infantry because they really do get instantly killed by anything that hits them.  You have to buy equipment if you want something other than the basic BA, although you do spawn with money so you can buy a basic tank or 'Mech at the start of the game if you want to.  The only reason you would fight as BA is if you chose to not buy something or ejected from your 'Mech or vehicle.

[ilkhan]

A star is always 5 units. 5 elementals are forming a star. 5 mechs are forming a star. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clans_(BattleTech)#Ranks

Actually a star is always 5 *points*. 2 aerospace/armor per point, 5 elementals per point. When you link evidence, try to make sure it *supports* your side and not *contradicts* it.

Id like to see 4 aero, 8 mechs (a binary) vs a company of IS, 8 mechs plus 4 tanks maybe. Binary vs Company is generally considered fair in books and play. Should be tipped towards IS in MWLL, as there's no weapon quality difference.

[Guardi4n]

Is there actually a perfect layout? I would intervene and ask in which scenario (map) the battle will take place? Also what is the objective, on which side are you on, what must you accomplish to defeat your opponent?

These and other factors, like economy (Clan or IS gear available?) should be also calculated into the mindset of this equation. We would of course  never forget the personnel. What kind of troops have you got at your disposal? Fresh as spring grass or toughened and rough veterans from multiple incursions

A question that comes to mind with reading this thread, is the following: Would a trooper 1 amour point be able to take over a battlesuit, armoured vehicle or even mech if he would be able to reach it in for say a hangerbay? This would also make some scenario tactics very interesting indeed. I would myself even be very curious if a map could be built around the capture of a third party mechcache to defeat the opposing forces. Then a fully loaded Armoured Personnel Carrier could be the most valuable unit in your equation if it succeeded in getting to the cache and commandeering the armour inside  

[=CJW= Rad Hanzo]

In IS vs. Clan battles I´d prefer:
   IS: 8 Mechs, 4 BA, 2 Aeros, 2 Tanks
Clan: 10 Mechs, 6 BA

Kinda classic type of standoff^^
Sit.Rep.: Clan forces try to overrun an military-held mining outpost and eradicate the planetary defenders in one fell swoop, StarCaptain Arimas Ward
leads the Clan´s forces to an improptu snatch and grab against a part of IS´s legendary Eridany Light Horses under Command of CaptainThomas Graeme.
Enjoy^^

[Gray Death]

Sorry you where right on the unit types.

For the gameplay i can only speculate as i don´t know nothing of it yet.

Is there a thread concerning what gameplay will be like in the release?

[KingLeerUK]

For the gameplay i can only speculate as i don´t know nothing of it yet.

For someone who can only speculate you certainly seem to have a strong set of opinions about what is right and wrong with the mod already.

[Loonatic]

And the winner is...

AntalopeAUT's avatar.

[Defender]

How will you survive then against a team of Battlemechs?

Depends on how playable the BA will be in the final game. But without serious support from your comrades in BA one alone will never have a chance against mechs.

Thats why i suggested 100+ players for a server match.

Many stars of BA will be required to engage a heavy or assault mech. And at least you should have a chance in defeating one.

If there are 16 players max. on each side then you could only have 4 full lances of mechs or 1 lance, 2 stars of elementals and 2 tanks.
That is not much for a battle on a large map of serveral square kilometers.

I think its 2 points of elementals your thinking of.

Anyway, 100s of players would change it into a MMO than anything else. If you want a BA MMO, go ask S&T to make one, because no matter how good our precious devs are, you need a lot of people to maintain a MMO.

A star is always 5 units. 5 elementals are forming a star. 5 mechs are forming a star. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clans_(BattleTech)#Ranks

And what i said was that the BA will be completely useless in a game where your oppenents pilot a mech. BA is easy prey even to the lightest of mechs.

NOBODY would go with the BA. Why the devs are integrating it into the mod?

The same applies for the tanks. Why would i go to battle in a tank if i can go in a mech?

You could defeat a mech with a lot of BA or tanks. Then you will need a lot of BA and/or tanks to win against the other team using mechs.

That would only make sense if the server supports 100 players on each team. Else nobody will even bother thinking of using BA or tanks in their teams because filling player slots with unusable units will ensure losing the match.

You have a sorely misconceived notion as to how the game balance actually plays out.
Speculation or not, you are as far from the truth as you can possibly be.

I'm not even going to go into detail. Read around the forums and you'll see just how far off you actually are.

[Guardi4n]

A star is always 5 units. 5 elementals are forming a star. 5 mechs are forming a star. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clans_(BattleTech)#Ranks
And what i said was that the BA will be completely useless in a game where your oppenents pilot a mech. BA is easy prey even to the lightest of mechs.
NOBODY would go with the BA. Why the devs are integrating it into the mod?
The same applies for the tanks. Why would i go to battle in a tank if i can go in a mech?
You could defeat a mech with a lot of BA or tanks. Then you will need a lot of BA and/or tanks to win against the other team using mechs.

With a league you'll be confronted by economics. You need to buy, maintain and keep maintaining units on Garrison duty and also in the field. With relation to how much income you have from the planets you hold, which factories are at your disposal and what type of units you can field, you'll never have only mechs at your disposal.

Its just too expensive.

Also another clue, how could you win a battle in the streets with only mechs. Mechs can not manoeuvre everywhere and they have their vulnerabilities as well. I'd stick with a good mixx to keep all possible solutions open for any battle. There would be even scenario's that an APC with a full unit of BA would be the most important unit on the field. Think about it.

Winning a battle doesn't mean always that Group A splats Group B. Sometimes its getting control of strategic points on a field or defending a certain building. Completely ripping a city to threads would actually make the goal of capturing the city void imho. No city, no prize 

[Thundertrod]

It would depend on the lay of the land in a open area the IS wood be smeared before it big boys get to play. In a cluttered area the IS can deliver massive short range damage volleys.

So my IS pick has follows

Open area.

8 Sparrow Hawk H5
Those AC2 don’t pack much punch but they have very good range and have quick reload rate to get of snap shots while aggressively maneuvering.  By circling looping doing split S at long range with focus fire these can tar apart those mad cats. MK II

5 Owens
Trying to hit a light meck at 800m with a gauss or PPC is not easy.
How ever missals track to there target.

3 ravens
The Owens will need some sort of close support and ewar support never hurts.

Clutter dares (uben)

4 Sparrow Hawk H5
To keep enemy air busy

2 Shiva
Close air support the enemy has limited maneuverability but the sky is still wide open.

2 Atlas
ECM so you cant detect at range you turn a corner and there are two them dishing out damage and soaking it up

4 demolishers
2 LBX 20 and thick armor the corner ambush champion.

4 Thanatos
ECM for ambushing and right behind your Demolisher is a Thanatos firing over it for even more short range burst damage.