Well, crud. This is discouraging...

[Ghiest]

That's usually me lol, Jack Daniels is my best friend on the weekends 

Just do us all a favor and turn your mic off before you've had a few too many.

haha never, I don't get abusive ... just about twice as loud

[Luger]

I've been a Mechwarrior clan leader for well over a decade and a player for over a half decade.  I have to say I have plenty of experience when I say this.  For league competition easy hacking can be a game breaker.  I've been in league competitions where two teams with big rivalries have accused each other of cheating when there was no way the other team could have.  Now with the knowledge that hacking is a big problem for Crysis people will be that much more gaurded against MWLL.

You can ignore what I said if you want, but it wont benefit you any if you do.  I hope that I am seriously wrong about this and that there will be a way to prevent cheating.  Even with constant monitoring of a server, how are you going to know if someone hacked?  In organized league competition it's one teams word against another.  And it's rare I've found a team with enough integrity that would be willing to rat on their own people over a game.

This could be a league breaking problem if there is no remedy.  Unless the server client software tells you someone is cheating then it will be open to interpretation and speculation.  Mark my words.

[Stalker]

Lugar is right about this.  Through training and practice my own unit became good enough that in the peak of league activity we were regularly accused of all kinds of hacking because we beat the enemy "too easily".  The leadership group of the team and myself included would never have tolerated a hacker in our unit, even the suspicion of it would have been enough to remove them and I am confident that no member of the team ever cheated in this way.  And yet there are probably people to this day that think we had some super secret hack that allowed us to kill them so easily.  I know that another top unit we often played against also suffered from the same accusations, they beat people "too easily".  It does no good that we know our own teams are clean, I'd vouch for for this other good unit as firmly as I'd vouch for my own but if there are other teams in a league who cannot be convinced that we are clean then there is nothing we can do to change their minds.  Suspicion grows, teams quit in disgust either because they suspect their opponents or they are tired of being wrongly accused.  It could do severe harm to the long term fanbase.  Certainly it will do severe harm to MWLL as a release.  If hacks are known to already be widespread I can't imagine how a league would ever establish trust between the teams.

However, I think that in mechwarrior its alot tougher to get away with hacking for various reasons. People seem to know very accurately how much damage to expect from certain weapons, whether the mech is taking damage properly, etc

Most of the guys in my unit could destroy a mech by repeatedly hitting just a single armor panel until the target was dead.  I know plenty of other players who could too.  Aimbot or skill?  How would anyone know.  You'd have to play lots and lots of games against an individual player to realise he simply never misses, ever.  And even then, it's still only a suspicion.  Maybe he is that good.  Perhaps it's easier to spot if a whole team is doing it but you rarely get that.  More likely it's just the one or two guys using the team as an honesty shield while they mess around and laugh to themselves.

[Valupeh]

Well I've seen some other posts about the hacking issue that could occur and from what i got MWLL is going to rely on good moderators and community + the need to make whole new hacks for MWLL with a total conversion mod you need totally new ones with a good community you'll have only a few people to bother to make the hacks and then with the good community if someone hacks everyone stands around and says that's bullshit.

(hopefully) 

[Stormin']

Well I've seen some other posts about the hacking issue that could occur and from what i got MWLL is going to really on good moderators and community + the need to make whole new hacks for MWLL with a total conversion mod you need totally new ones with a good community you'll have only a few people to bother to make the hacks and then with the good community if someone hacks everyone stands around and says that's bullshit.

(hopefully) 

punctuation fail

[Valupeh]

punctuation required??? since when??

[Ghiest]

Most recent leagues I've played in require demos if the other team suspects hacking/exploiting/cheating or just wondered "how the fapp did he do that"  I remember my league game of Crash in CoD4, being the last man v 2 others and planting the bomb at the primary site (building) then running out onto the balcony where no one ever hides because i knew where they were after killing my team mate.  I dispatched both of them with a knife to the back one after the other and they accused me of cheating in the game so I just uploaded the demos of my game (along with my team) then got a formal apologies from the clan captain.

Other leagues I've played have had a non-biased Administrator on the server to overlook the game (back in quake2/3 ).  As I said it's just about good admins knowing what to look for in cheating to spot them early on and remove them from the server asap.

[Gray Death]

LOL Top Teams!!

I played MW4 some days ago. In the game the opposite team constantly killed me. I could not see them on radar or on the screen. All i saw was a greyish strip of colour shooting at me.

That was obviously cheating. I told them and they just laughed and kicked me from the server. It´s just the same like Crysis.

[STUN]

Lugar is right about this.  Through training and practice my own unit became good enough that in the peak of league activity we were regularly accused of all kinds of hacking because we beat the enemy "too easily".  The leadership group of the team and myself included would never have tolerated a hacker in our unit, even the suspicion of it would have been enough to remove them and I am confident that no member of the team ever cheated in this way.  And yet there are probably people to this day that think we had some super secret hack that allowed us to kill them so easily.  I know that another top unit we often played against also suffered from the same accusations, they beat people "too easily".  It does no good that we know our own teams are clean, I'd vouch for for this other good unit as firmly as I'd vouch for my own but if there are other teams in a league who cannot be convinced that we are clean then there is nothing we can do to change their minds.  Suspicion grows, teams quit in disgust either because they suspect their opponents or they are tired of being wrongly accused.  It could do severe harm to the long term fanbase.  Certainly it will do severe harm to MWLL as a release.  If hacks are known to already be widespread I can't imagine how a league would ever establish trust between the teams.

However, I think that in mechwarrior its alot tougher to get away with hacking for various reasons. People seem to know very accurately how much damage to expect from certain weapons, whether the mech is taking damage properly, etc

Most of the guys in my unit could destroy a mech by repeatedly hitting just a single armor panel until the target was dead.  I know plenty of other players who could too.  Aimbot or skill?  How would anyone know.  You'd have to play lots and lots of games against an individual player to realise he simply never misses, ever.  And even then, it's still only a suspicion.  Maybe he is that good.  Perhaps it's easier to spot if a whole team is doing it but you rarely get that.  More likely it's just the one or two guys using the team as an honesty shield while they mess around and laugh to themselves.

Your right about that, how would you be able to tell? but most players who are half decent can shoot out a black torso, its not overly difficult. MW4 has been around for an awful long time now and the players that have stuck around have all improved alot (at least before I left mw4). If you know someone who has been playing the game for years and years, it just adds to their credibility if they shoot down targets like that, its lowers suspicions.

In my opinion, the biggest problem is the accusations of warping and damage not being registered, its very easy for the accused to just blame it on lag. I know that the MWLL online system will be different in mw4, which is a good thing. Maybe lag wont effect the game as much as before? I dont know... But I know in mw4 its been shown that doing things like pushing the pause button on a modem can give players an advantage, or the old print screen trick. I hope these things will not be an issue once this mod is released.

[(TLL)BlueOrb]

I agree with Luger also....try finding a Khan or General thats going to say: "My guy won but since it appears hes cheating we will disregard his win". We did however find ways to fight against some of the hacks...and win.

[Luger]

Hey Blue.. what was that tool we used to use back in MW2?  Wasn't it mechlab maid?  I think it just checked the validity of the mechs loadout or something similar.  Does anyone know of any anti-cheat tools for Crysis.  I've not seen any besides the usual.. punkbuster etc.

[(TLL)BlueOrb]

Aye ...Mechlabmaid

[Luger]

I want MWLL to succeed.  I bring up these issues not to be critical but rather to help.  This is a valid concern and I am also willing to help in any way I can to come up with a solution.  I am asking about anti-hack tools because I want MWLL to be like other MW online games.  Very long lived and very good games.  Well that is except MW3, which wound up being a cheat fest.

The main thing MW4 did good was to make it hard to cheat.  I personally would not mind waiting another 6 months for tools to prevent people from cheating in MWLL.  I realize that assets may be different enough from the main game (Crysis) to make it harder for hackers to integrate existing hacks.  However, they will do it and many leagues will not last long until anti-hack tools are created. It is hard enough to find a game in Crysis multiplayer where someone isn't hacking.

I remember back in MW4 when people could shoot through hills and hit people we had admins watching the servers and they still couldn't control it.  Despite many people being kicked from the game moderators/game admins cannot effectively manage hackers.  I would hate it if you guys released this wonderful mod and it was ruined by people with no morals who hack.