360DoF

[Duper]

really. wow.

Thank you!

hmm. ok.  For Descent, there is Interplay and Parallax and Crytek.  So, mix water, oil, and salt, you have one fugly milkshake. (there have been problems in the past with the first two)

alright, thanks Ravir.

btw, can't wait for MWLL.

[AoP]

What kind of permissions did you need? To do a total conversion you obviously have access to the finer parts of code, perhaps even source.

Not necessarily. See the Wikipedia article on total conversions:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Total_conversion_modification#Total_conversion

As far as Crytek and Crysis source code are concerned, we do have access to some non-ModSDK content. This access is being granted on an NDA-base.
We are definitely profiting from the fact that Crytek sees enormous potential in the project and its possible impact.

[Sirius]

A bsp engine is a binary space portal engine, which calculates what to show based on portals.  These type of engines include quake3/call of duty/unreal 3.  They tend to work allot more efficiently than other engines in how it displays information to the screen, but on the other hand it's a real pain in the arse to work with (compare QER to Cryeditor for map making and you will see).

UE3 currently doesn't require any pre-placed portals; http://www.unrealtechnology.com/features.php?ref=rendering That said it may still use them internally.

I should note binary space partitioning isn't that effective a means for visibility culling in outdoors settings, hence why e.g. Mechwarrior 4 didn't use it. I don't know the details of the Crysis engine; but I do remember at least Crysis Warhead had at least one indoor-only level (the mine/railway station). I would think it's fair to say it has the capabilities to handle indoor settings well.

[Cujo]

ok I can't read this without correcting your butchering of the phrase, degrees of freedom.  Degrees of freedom does not relate to the turret's turn radius, it refers to how many ways the turret is constrained to move.  If we consider only the turret, then all it can do is rotate along the vertical axis, so it has 1 degree of freedom.  If we add the gun to the turret, then it has 2 degrees of freedom.  An unrestrained cube, simply modeled, has 6 DoF, it can move along each coordinate Axis (X,Y,Z) and rotations about each axis.

.... o_0

Then I'll ask you to Re-read my First post.

I'm asking how well this engine might do to make a total conversion for descent. It doesn't look like Interplay is going to last long enough to make good on their intention to do another installment so I'm looking into other alternatives.

Trust me.  I know what 360DoF is.

and Yea, descent is nothing more than BIG buildings in the ground.  Outside can be used as well. (see Descent 3)  Yes yes .. i KNOW the engine mechanics are different, but that doesn't matter.  Why would it if I was to use a completely different engine? (this is a sum-up answer over the last couple of posts that's already been addressed)

Incidentally, was a license purchased from Crytek to do MWLL or is this all SDK?

I did, you don't seem to.  You're talking about infinite or 6 degrees of freedom (depending on whether or not you want to simple model it).  Degrees of freedom doesn't have anything to do with angles.  sry, 4th year mechanical engineering student, I can't resist

[Duper]

Its a term used (and accepted) in association with the game called Descent. And that is what you have; movement on ALL axis; rotational AND linear.

It's N-O-T a mech. It's a flying ship called a Pyro.

Go buy a copy on GOG for 6 bucks

you can watch a vid of Descent 3 on YouTube HERE

Incidentally, if anyone would like a hi-res of that vid. I can e-mail it to you but it's quite large and I don't have access to a server.

[Cujo]

sry dude, I know what descent is and I've played it(#3 I think, been a long time), I'm just explaining what DoF ACTUALLY are, not a gaming community's misunderstanding of the term(3 axis + 3 rotations = 6 DoF, not 360, besides 360 degrees is for a circle, not a sphere).  I was just pointing that out because I like to use what I learn in classes whenever I can, because the responses I get are funny.  sorry if I got you all hot and bothered, I didn't mean to, I'm just studying for mechanical vibrations final and trying to amuse myself because it's boring as hell, so it's something that's like right at the forefront of my mind.

As far as using Crysis to make a descent mod, you could probably do it, set gravity to zero and alter the values for the ship so that it acts as it does in descent, but it sounds like a considerable amount of work, not to mention all the weapons and enemies you'd have to code in and you'd have to get the AI to work properly with the enemy "vehicles," iirc they're like robots or something, but the AI might be your biggest hurdle from what I've heard.

[Duper]

kinda like the difference between Centripital and Centrifical force. .. one is real and one is not.

yeah, things have been hecktic here. That and though I'm asking these questions, it's not likely to go anywhere. The Descent community tends to be a negative group of folks and our numbers are only a couple hundred tops in the way of being active on line.  So my apologies for getting sharp. I totally missed your intent.

AI is always a pain. Even some of the newer games STILL don't do a good job. UT3 is a good example there. The AI exists, but it's not far removed from it's first incarnation. Crysis does a good job. The enemies react pretty well to environment.  Of course, it's AI so there are hickups. The one thing I didn't like was how all their bullets seemed to hit when only half to 3/4 of mine in close quarters would make contact. .. but I digress.

Basically, it would be just bots.  Not humans or whatever interacting with vehicles. Besides, I would figure that some of those routines would be part of the engine. (one would hope)

Honestly, I think the whole 360 thing was a making phrase by Interplay years back.  First rule of manufactoring, N-E-V-E-R let marketing govern a product's developement.  EVER.  You get feedback from them for customer usability and function and such, but it's done when it's done. (sry for the rant)

If ya'll have 5 minutes to waste, watch that vid. The guy that did it had over 60 gig of vid footage to pull from he recorded.

[=CJW= Rad Hanzo]

D3 vid in HighQual
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kfDTCge_Hwk&fmt=18

[Defender]

Incidentally, was a license purchased from Crytek to do MWLL or is this all SDK?

MechWarrior: Living Legends is a total conversion modification for Crysis and Crysis Wars.

yes.. i know.

What kind of permissions did you need? To do a total conversion you obviously have access to the finer parts of code, perhaps even source. (I don't know, this is what I'm Getting At) When you have source access, you normally have to buy a license to the engine.

Just permissions from M$ to use the IP. Other than that, everything is is hacked right into the ModSDK, same thing everyone else has. As one of our coders once said, making functional mechs is like building a ship in a bottle.

[Duper]

D3 vid in HighQual
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kfDTCge_Hwk&fmt=18

Ahh. Thanks. That is a MUCH better rendition.

Thanks Defender. an interesting analogy....

[Duper]

We had to have official license from Microsoft in order to use real BattleTech sources without the risk of getting stomped out with a single "cease and desist".  Smaller projects can get away with it, but something like this would likely get squashed.  Neither license "cost" anything, but are given under the agreement that we can't make money off of this project.

Sorry to hound on this.

Just wanted to thank you again for this reply in particular.  I wasn't feeling all that well the first time around (as some of my snarling  may have indicated and for which I apologize) Re-reading it, it reminded me of a community attempt to create a Descent 4. The only problem was that this particular group wanted to sell their work. This is understandable given the amount of work that was to be put into it. (I'm sure you can relate )  But when they got their "Cease and Desist" notice, the DESISTED!    They didn't continue with the thought of doing it for free.  *sigh* They were aware that that option was available, they were unwilling.

So, Thank you entire MWLL crew for all your work these last couple of years. I eagerly look forward to the release of this project, but will patiently wait until it is complete.

Thanks from a Descent and Mech Fan.   And thanks to all that tolerated my mood and replied to my questions.

[Sirius]

If you're talking about ODS, I have some doubt they could have finished the project in the first place. They never seemed to have the drive and manpower that the MW:LL dev team has. Granted a little of that is probably just 3-4 guys who are seriously motivated and catch everyone else up in their enthusiasm... But it seems a very rare thing for a project to have that, hence why most mods die.