Author Topic: limiting weapons in alpha strikes ?  (Read 3421 times)

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline Colonel Sharpe

  • Recruit
  • *
  • Posts: 84
  • Karma: 0
Re: limiting weapons in alpha strikes ?
« Reply #45 on: May 25, 2009, 05:47:11 PM »
Like i wrote in the "Mech targeting" thread, alpha strikes in combination with sniping is so deadly because you hit exactly what you are targeting at. If you look at the board game, shooting a fast moving target on high range while jumping resulted in an extremely high modificator, that made it nearly impossible to hit the target. However in Mech4 this could be easily done. Jump -> aim -> shoot -> 4 large Laser hit all the same Zone -> target heavily damaged / destroyed.

In my opinion, a mech with jump jets should only gain an tactical advantage off more mobility in heavy Terrain. So make it that your Crosshair shakes like hell when you are jumping and we are all fine :-)

ARES, I asked a question about weapon accuracy a while ago, here is the answer I got from Death_Grin, a dev on MWLL:

My question:

3) Will there be a cone of fire in the game? [Again, for example, part of the fun of Battletech was rolling to see where you would hit the Mech. In Mechwarrior 4 everything always hit wherever the reticle was pointing. Also, games in the Tom Clancy franchise lose accuracy the longer the weapon is fired, for automatic weapons anyway.]

Dev Answer:

3.  Yes, bullet deviation exists already in engine and was used for every projectile type in game.  Certain weapons are more accurate and have a tighter cone of fire then others.  So, for example, if you are using a failry inaccurate weapon (wide cone of fire, large deviation what ever term you want to use) and aim at the head there is the possability of hitting other parts instead.  The ballisitc trajectory is calculated by the game engine and depends on several other factors as well such as wind velocity and gravity.

The entire thread can be found here:

http://www.mechlivinglegends.net/forum/index.php/topic,3114.0.html
Colonel Richard Sharpe
Commander, 1st Steelwind Dragoons
Tiger Command Lance
Steelwind Headquarters, Outreach

Offline Ghiest

  • Star Captain
  • ***
  • Posts: 825
  • Karma: 12
Re: limiting weapons in alpha strikes ?
« Reply #46 on: May 25, 2009, 06:07:49 PM »
I'd say poor game design or they just didn't think of it.  Game Developers don't always know exactly what players will do with certain things, such as 3rd person.  Without knowing their reasoning and intentions one cannot say for certain, but it does happen.

And allot more than you think, I can count quite a few online MP games that were patched to disallow something that was exploited even though 'everyone can do it', it was still cheap and retarded to do it.

Offline Rally

  • Lance Captain
  • ***
  • Posts: 697
  • Karma: 12
Re: limiting weapons in alpha strikes ?
« Reply #47 on: May 26, 2009, 06:08:58 PM »
I've got nothing against Snipers (poptart or regular hill humper), using them is a valid tactic. But from my MW4 experience I can tell you, that in the end everyone pretty much ends up in a sniper or maybe a missile boat. If we decide that is the goal then ok, but if we decide it's making the game a bit dull, I have a solution. Let's have a mechanism, like Zeus and maybe others have suggested. A mechanism that doesn't have all the weapons in your alpha strike converge into one spot, thus not making sniping so obviously easy.

Something to think about!

Offline Bowrrl

  • Lance Sergeant
  • **
  • Posts: 392
  • Karma: 10
Re: limiting weapons in alpha strikes ?
« Reply #48 on: May 26, 2009, 07:28:24 PM »
I'm pretty sure Forced First Person is the answer to this problem. I'm also pretty sure that Forced First Person is in.

With Forced First Person not only will you not be able to see over or around walls from the paragliding camera tied to your mech, but you also need better awareness of the gun positions on your mech lest you successfully guess that an enemy is over your hill, pop up just enough to get him in your crosshairs, and then gracefully and accurately place 3 large lasers and a gauss rifle slug into the hillside you're hiding behind due to your arms being placed below the cockpit on some mechs. I also don't think it would be unreasonable for there to be a bit bigger of a "cone of fire" while jumping.

Alpha striking is fine and it has already been established that the only major OPness of it was involving pop-tarts. Forced First Person would make it so pop-tarting requires more skill and make it more easily countered by the other combat types, which is reasonable.

Offline Colonel Sharpe

  • Recruit
  • *
  • Posts: 84
  • Karma: 0
Re: limiting weapons in alpha strikes ?
« Reply #49 on: May 26, 2009, 09:26:52 PM »
Is it just me, or did no one read my post on the dev's answer to this? It's three posts up.
Colonel Richard Sharpe
Commander, 1st Steelwind Dragoons
Tiger Command Lance
Steelwind Headquarters, Outreach

Offline TuRbOlAg

  • MechWarrior
  • **
  • Posts: 274
  • Karma: 0
  • Behold, the XBoxPortable.
Re: limiting weapons in alpha strikes ?
« Reply #50 on: May 26, 2009, 10:35:22 PM »
lol.  I read it.  IMO Lasers should be pinpoint accuracy.  No exceptions.  That's why lasers have the built in heat drawback.  Everything else though, including PPC's and missles, should have a slight error margin.

On the topic of the developer reply, hows about some sort of upgrade, say 1 ton for every 5 tons of weapons, that tightens up that cone as as something that can be added to a chassis?  Sacrifice some tonnage that could be extra weapons or heat sinks for more accurate shots.
"That's like shooting yourself so the bullet will hit someone behind you..."

"We could always go outside..." - "I dunno man, there are people out there.  I HATE people!'"

Offline Diablo48

  • Lance Captain
  • ***
  • Posts: 517
  • Karma: 0
Re: limiting weapons in alpha strikes ?
« Reply #51 on: May 26, 2009, 11:00:43 PM »
On the topic of the developer reply, hows about some sort of upgrade, say 1 ton for every 5 tons of weapons, that tightens up that cone as as something that can be added to a chassis?  Sacrifice some tonnage that could be extra weapons or heat sinks for more accurate shots.

That sounds a lot like how the Targeting Computer is implemented in BT, so you could have it bring this benefit as well as the aiming circle it had in MW3.

Offline TuRbOlAg

  • MechWarrior
  • **
  • Posts: 274
  • Karma: 0
  • Behold, the XBoxPortable.
Re: limiting weapons in alpha strikes ?
« Reply #52 on: May 27, 2009, 12:18:58 AM »
That would be awesome to have both benefits.  I always loved having a targeting computer for PPC sniping, but tightening an AC2 group would be an awesome alternative.
"That's like shooting yourself so the bullet will hit someone behind you..."

"We could always go outside..." - "I dunno man, there are people out there.  I HATE people!'"

Online Stahlseele

  • Living Legend
  • *******
  • Posts: 4114
  • Karma: 43
  • 2nd Level TechSupport Agent(BOFH)
Re: limiting weapons in alpha strikes ?
« Reply #53 on: May 27, 2009, 01:34:20 AM »
Well, in CBT a Targetting Computer EITHER gave a -1 to your TO HIT TARGET NUMBER OR allowed you to target SPECIFIC AREAS. But at a higher Target Number.
The first part i would say is the tightening of the Cone. The Second part is the little Circle from MW3 i'd say.
'any kind of discussion of randomness ALWAYS WILL EQUATE to being able to critically hit a mech's reactor by firing a micro beam laser while facing 80 degrees to the side, shooting the ground, which would cause a random explosion which would randomly crit his entire team's reactors which would randomly cause the server itself to explode which would randomly generate a strange quark which would randomly hit the earth and randomly randomness randomfapp the shit fapp random!'
------------------------------
CPU: Intel Core 2 Quad Q9650 @4x3GHz
Memory: GSkill 2x4Gb DDR3 1333Mhz
Video: MSI N580GTX Lightning Xtreme Edition 3072MB
HDD: 2xWD Velociraptor74Gig10k RPM SATA  RAID0; 1x WD Caviar Black 1TB, 1x WD Caviar Green 2TB
Monitor: 2x24" Widescreen 16:9 1920x1080 native resolution
Windows Vista

Offline TuRbOlAg

  • MechWarrior
  • **
  • Posts: 274
  • Karma: 0
  • Behold, the XBoxPortable.
Re: limiting weapons in alpha strikes ?
« Reply #54 on: May 27, 2009, 01:54:45 AM »
Sounds right.  That would be an excellent piece of equipment to have.   :)
"That's like shooting yourself so the bullet will hit someone behind you..."

"We could always go outside..." - "I dunno man, there are people out there.  I HATE people!'"

Online Stahlseele

  • Living Legend
  • *******
  • Posts: 4114
  • Karma: 43
  • 2nd Level TechSupport Agent(BOFH)
Re: limiting weapons in alpha strikes ?
« Reply #55 on: May 27, 2009, 02:10:55 AM »
Oh it was/is.
In MW3, most mechs got hellishly dangerous with that one.
Wasn't really present in the MW4 Series.
In CBT, pair this with things like LB-X AC's, AC's with Precision Ammo or Pulse-Lasers.
-1 to your To-hit-Number and eliminating Movement-Modifiers from Target-Movement OR
-3 to your TO HIT Number. Meaning if you are shooting at a 10, chances are good the other guy is shooting at 13.
Or Streak SRM. Allmost allways a lock on.
Or pair up with a Spotter with that thing. Tag/NARC benefits from this too. And so will your Semi Guided/NARC Capable xRM's.
Or c3i. -1 for all Mechs in the Network? I can dig it.
Or with ArtemisIV, it's a -3 to your xRM-to-Hit-Number.
Yeah, basically a Must have. But hellishly expansive.
And taking up Weight/Crits like nothing good.
There's a Pheonix Hawk with an ER-PPC and 4 or 5 ER Medium lasers with a Targetting computer.
the 6D i think. the D stands for Deadly.
'any kind of discussion of randomness ALWAYS WILL EQUATE to being able to critically hit a mech's reactor by firing a micro beam laser while facing 80 degrees to the side, shooting the ground, which would cause a random explosion which would randomly crit his entire team's reactors which would randomly cause the server itself to explode which would randomly generate a strange quark which would randomly hit the earth and randomly randomness randomfapp the shit fapp random!'
------------------------------
CPU: Intel Core 2 Quad Q9650 @4x3GHz
Memory: GSkill 2x4Gb DDR3 1333Mhz
Video: MSI N580GTX Lightning Xtreme Edition 3072MB
HDD: 2xWD Velociraptor74Gig10k RPM SATA  RAID0; 1x WD Caviar Black 1TB, 1x WD Caviar Green 2TB
Monitor: 2x24" Widescreen 16:9 1920x1080 native resolution
Windows Vista