Author Topic: Thoughts on the Release  (Read 6049 times)

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Offline Colonel Sharpe

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Thoughts on the Release
« on: June 17, 2009, 03:36:53 AM »
I'm prepared to be annihilated here, but, going to give my thoughts anyway.

To the MWLL Devs: Do not release an open beta. Make a larger group for the closed beta and include League Administrators in that group. Then, when the mod is complete, make a full, open release.

Having everyone in the open beta will be cool, no doubt. But, without leagues to play in and bring folks together, interest could wane in the amount of time between the open beta and the full release. I would just rather have the whole thing ready to rock, than see a partial release and still be waiting for a full release.

Discussion?
Colonel Richard Sharpe
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Offline marmchmmr

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Re: Thoughts on the Release
« Reply #1 on: June 17, 2009, 04:08:30 AM »
but there is a hole in your logic
beta are to find bug and programing issues also it help build more interest about the mod.
Forgive my grammar and spelling errors please!

Offline Bcbear

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Re: Thoughts on the Release
« Reply #2 on: June 17, 2009, 04:17:51 AM »
Well there's the dilemma......
I've seen so many mods strive for that "perfect release" and then have their fanbase die off due to how long it takes.
There is, in my mind, more danger of a mod's support waning if there is NO release than if there is a beta release.
Feature Creep is a bad thing in these cases, and in case anyone reading this doesn't know what it means, Feature Creep is where you develop a new feature for the game that you think should be put in before it is released...... then another...... then another...... and just one more...... and again..... you get the idea.
But don't take me the wrong way, from the pace and quality of the work I've seen from the MWLL team, we don't need to be afraid of death by feature creep.

I'm just saying that there's a point at which the extra time spent polishing the mod isn't worth the loss of fans.
That's what updates and patches are for! :P
But never fear, this takes YEARS of dwindling activity to happen (I've seen one mod in particular die slowly over 8 or 9 years, THAT was painful to see)

But anyway, as to your post Colonel, I can certainly see where you are coming from, there are things I've wanted to put out ONLY when they were perfect, but sometimes, it can go too far and become a bad thing.
I think that the leagues should set up as if the game was a final release, recruit members, and play while helping to balance the mod.
(and here comes the part i like :P)
The more we can play and report bugs when the mod is released, the easier it will be for the dev team to balance the game.
And plus, don't you want to do your part to help MWLL and play-test for the good of all? :D

Offline marmchmmr

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Re: Thoughts on the Release
« Reply #3 on: June 17, 2009, 04:26:41 AM »
way you bring up some important point. Take my merc unit as an explain. We started 3 month ago and have four member. I not knocking the guys there great and were always recruiting.  So time is need to set up a league that will be able support the game. There will be more clan unit and team to come.
Forgive my grammar and spelling errors please!

Offline Colonel Sharpe

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Re: Thoughts on the Release
« Reply #4 on: June 17, 2009, 04:41:24 AM »
Bcbear,


Thanks for the constructive post. I see both sides of the story here. I'm primarily worried about the constant nay-sayers who seem to want to see the mod fail, I don't see any here on the MWLL forums, but they're out there on other forums. I don't want people to see an unpolished release and think, "Well this sucks," and not give it the chance it needs to be completed. But, then, I'm not completely sure how polished the first release will be.

Believe me, if I only had some skill to lend to the team, I'd be on it, if reporting bugs and balance issues during the open beta is it, then that's where I'll be.
Colonel Richard Sharpe
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Offline SeniorBiscuit

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Re: Thoughts on the Release
« Reply #5 on: June 17, 2009, 05:03:35 AM »
anyone who wants MWLL to fail is off their bloody rocker.


Im pretty sure they said they ARE doing a closed beta first, for forum goers and contributors.

Offline ~SJ~ Karuik

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Re: Thoughts on the Release
« Reply #6 on: June 17, 2009, 05:10:51 AM »
I believe SeniorBiscuit is right, not positive though



HEY LOOKIE 400 POSTS!  ;D

Offline Shakes

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Re: Thoughts on the Release
« Reply #7 on: June 17, 2009, 05:17:42 AM »
Im personally not worried. This team just doesnt seem like the kind of team to release ANYTHING with gamebreaking bugs in it, be it a beta or full release. Why do you think we havent seen a half baked video with actual (improperly) moving mechs yet - because theyd rather let us see that when its working really well and as planned, and have a polished video of it too.

And I dont particularly agree with your theory that having one not-quite-polished beta release will kill a mod outright. History has certainly not proven this to be true in the majority of cases that I can recall. I think most of the failed cases youre talking about come from slow moving (or unmoving) production - even after playing a crappy early release of a mod my attention still holds if I can see that things are still moving along nicely, even if I only go and check back on it once every 2 or 3 months.

Also I think these naysayers on other forums are the type that likely wont even play the beta anyway - the majority will be the die hards and lurkers on this forum, whether its closed or not. And when that nicely polished 1.0 RLZ hits the press and starts garnering praise, im sure those same naysayers will come and give it a go whether theyve heard complaints about the beta or not.

Offline Gnarlycharly

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Re: Thoughts on the Release
« Reply #8 on: June 17, 2009, 05:29:44 AM »
HEY LOOKIE 400 POSTS!  ;D
Hey lookie 592 posts, I beat you :P
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In the darkest times, hope is something you give yourself.  That is the meaning of inner-strength."

Offline Alexander

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Re: Thoughts on the Release
« Reply #9 on: June 17, 2009, 11:47:13 AM »
Long-time lurker here.

While I can see your logic, perfectionism has been the death of many things. Nothing will ever be "Perfect", and trying too hard to make it that way can do more harm than good. The only reason to not release an early beta would be to avoid giving off wrong impressions about the quality of the game - and even then, the effects (at this stage for certain) would be minimal. So what if mechs get stuck on walls and occasionally explode for no reason - its a Beta, outrageously random bugs are to be expected.
"Don't take life seriously, it's not like you're getting out alive."

Offline ~SJ~ Amarus

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Re: Thoughts on the Release
« Reply #10 on: June 17, 2009, 12:53:14 PM »
Gentlemen I think the big issue here is whether or not someone is willing to wait for the devs idea of complete.  Now the underlying problem we all have is that there has not been a real mechwarrior release since 02, and unless I am wrong and please correct me but there is nothing in the works aside from this masterpiece right here.

So whether or not you want to wait, if we are all as die hard as we think we are, we will wait...and then some.

By the way I've lurked mechwarrior forums for years but had to get into it with this one ;D


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Offline =KoS= Eldragon

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Re: Thoughts on the Release
« Reply #11 on: June 17, 2009, 03:28:34 PM »
I am of the belief that having an early beta release is better than waiting for the final release. An early beta might bring in more talent to help with the mod (modelers, map-makers, coders, etc). As long as the beta is not so buggy that players will not try subsequent versions of the beta because of bad experiences with the original.

As to league play, I would be very wary of starting an officially sanctioned league system. I find that league players ruin a community as often as it brings it together.  e.g. All the servers are run by various clans, and not all of those clans make an effort to be fair in how they administer their servers. Team Stacking, kicking talented non-clan players, etc.

Offline Colonel Sharpe

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Re: Thoughts on the Release
« Reply #12 on: June 17, 2009, 03:42:56 PM »
I am of the belief that having an early beta release is better than waiting for the final release. An early beta might bring in more talent to help with the mod (modelers, map-makers, coders, etc). As long as the beta is not so buggy that players will not try subsequent versions of the beta because of bad experiences with the original.

As to league play, I would be very wary of starting an officially sanctioned league system. I find that league players ruin a community as often as it brings it together.  e.g. All the servers are run by various clans, and not all of those clans make an effort to be fair in how they administer their servers. Team Stacking, kicking talented non-clan players, etc.

I wasn't thinking there should be an official sanctioned league, I just thought that each of the leagues out there, UTS, ADL, NBT, MWL, etc. should all have someone working with the Mod Team in order to have their leagues up and running when the full release comes out, so players have somewhere to enjoy the game. Server hopping with no real goal or end in sight would be a bad thing.
Colonel Richard Sharpe
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Steelwind Headquarters, Outreach

Offline Strapped McGee

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Re: Thoughts on the Release
« Reply #13 on: June 17, 2009, 03:44:49 PM »
IIRC its not actually a beta... more like they promised a release on the original crysis, and so they will... its just not going to be with all the features they have in mind, and so a full release will come later on the warhead version.  

but either way, its the Devs baby... im just waiting...
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Offline Exanimous

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Re: Thoughts on the Release
« Reply #14 on: June 17, 2009, 11:00:54 PM »
To be honest, I got extremely annoyed and very frustrated when the dev team not only went back on their initial delivery date, but didn't even release anything even a few months later. It's already almost half a year down the road from their first release date, and nothing. Frankly this team should release the game in a very playable/enjoyable state and patch it on the way. It seems very odd that they were planning on releasing the mod to the public 6 months ago and not even now do we have a release. It just makes me ask the question:

"What were they thinking? How off the mark could they have really been to have aimed for a release date 6 months earlier, canceling right around that time, and not even be able to release it 6 months later?"

Either there was a monstrous problem that arose, or they just had a gross overestimation of the mod's progress by that point. Feature creep is definitely something which occurred in my opinion since that original release date. Day night cycles, jump jets, etc, fancy huds. They all seem like things that would only really please and be appreciated by the die hard fans (who would play anyways, I know I would) and not the casual gamer who wants to jump in a mech at least and prance around stomping on various small objects.

Hopefully it comes out soon. Keep working hard Dev team...