Arrow IV

[PaleOne]

I loved the Arrow IV in previuos MW games, Will it still be fire and forget at 2km or will it be "balanced"

I hope the community is a little more hardcore than some of the people I found online in other MW games. I remember once being chastized for being a "Legger" by loading my Medium mech with 5 med lasers and focusing on my opponents damaged legs. I hope the game will be balanced enough where attempts to min max or fight with a specific strategy is considered good play and not "cheating"

I thought the object was to "win" 

[Stahlseele]

No, it will stay like that.
It only works up to the same reach your missles can fly.
if you have arrow on a mech with SRM only, well, 120m is still maximum. \

[STUN]

The arrow was balanced in previous games. It weighs alot, and the recharge time is long. Also, it has no arc, which means that anyone who uses cover can easilly avoid getting hit by them.

[shadowkiller]

Thats would be kinda dumb considering its a long range artillery missile. Currently the arrows fly a LONG ways and do ALOT of damage but they are very heavy and slow to reload.

[PaleOne]

The arrow was often balanced in other games buy its sheer bulk, if took up so many slots you couldnt carry much else.

The two Mech Variants I see carrying it don't carry LRM's So I assume the poster referring to your other missle systems must be confused with Tag or something else.

[Stahlseele]

Artemis . . Arrow . . YES I STILL fappING GET THOSE MIXED UP -.-

[=]FC[=Striker]

I loved the Arrow IV in previuos MW games, Will it still be fire and forget at 2km or will it be "balanced"

I hope the community is a little more hardcore than some of the people I found online in other MW games. I remember once being chastized for being a "Legger" by loading my Medium mech with 5 med lasers and focusing on my opponents damaged legs. I hope the game will be balanced enough where attempts to min max or fight with a specific strategy is considered good play and not "cheating"

I thought the object was to "win" 

Pale I think you must have always missed the point about why legging was frowned upon. It isn't because it was a strategy that was awesome, it is because the legs were weak, the fun of the game was prolonged battles in mobile mechs, and overall it took very little skill. If everyone legged instead of shooting for arms/torso then the game would have been very little fun to play. To you it may have been fun, but that is because you were the one that was winning by legging instead of the slugfest which most people that like MW games enjoy. I understand wanting to win, but winning at the cost of the communities fun factor is not worth it.

Legging will still be frowned upon in MWLL unless they make legs as strong as torso pieces, and even then intentional legging will still probably be unacceptable. Who wants to be constantly gimped in a game where the attraction is huge, mobile, and lethal machines? The only way I see legging as somewhat viable is if I can kill you center torso just as fast or faster then you can by legging, and then like I said before, it is still something most people would frown upon.

Striker

[Stahlseele]

That would be the same people complaining about people actually standing still when using a scoped sniper rifle, or firing missles at your feet to kill you by splash damage . .

[=]FC[=Striker]

I think there is a huge difference between using a scoped weapon from long range on a target or using a missile for splash damage kills and using an instant hit energy weapon to take out a very weak and vulnerable piece of the mech. What you are referring to Stahl are the people that in an FPS game that complain about a certain machine gun being too good compared to other machine guns, which is overall just splitting hairs, and is nowhere remotely close to the practice of legging a mech.

I am not saying that legging is not a valid or even an excellent strategy, but overall it is seen as a negative thing in the community because if all that was done in MW was legging there would have been very little excitement to the game. Even with maxed armor on a leg it would take 2 shots for a medium mech or higher to take out the leg, which means the battles would have been 3 shot fights with little skill involved. It all boils down to personal opinion, but the overwhelming opinion is that legging is not a fun tactic to be used, because it takes away the majority of what a MW game can be.

Striker

[KorJax]

Currently ArrowIV's have the longest range in the game compaired to any other weapon.  I think you'll be able to shoot them across any map in the mod and still be within range (I could be wrong though, haven't tried).  The trick is you can only lock onto enemies within your radar range, so the AIV's will be essentially useless at these very long ranges unless you are very lucky or better yet have a TAG spotter to guide your missiles.

The missiles are also slower on average and weigh a lot.  For example, the Catapult C Varient (or one of them) that we have in the beta can only carry 2 AIV's... and nothing else.  Which pretty much means you are a 100% dedicated "missile artillery" role, and you are literally defenseless from light mechs and battle armor that close in on your position.

[=KoS=Zeus]

Legs are the second toughest part of the mech, almost as tough as most mech's CTs. The problem is that jack-holes tend to strip the armor off of them for an extra ton or two of weapons and then cry when someone discovers they did it and exploits their foolish gamble.

Legs have approximately 2/3 - 5/6 of the internal structure damage capacity of the Center Torso. So a 20 ton mech's legs have 5 damage for the internals. Furthermore a mech can mount double the internal structure damage capacity in armor on a given location, this means that the same 20 ton mech can have 10 points of armor on the legs, for 15 damage capacity total.  The center torso of a 20 tonner has only 6 internal points, with a maximum of 12 armor, but that also includes rear armor. Most light mechs only put 2 points on the rear torsos, meaning the CT has 10 armor and 6 internal, for 16 total.  Killing a maximum armored 20 tonner is loads faster by blowing through the CT than the legs.

Similarly a 100 ton atlas has 47 armor on the front CT (14 on the rear), with 31 internal damage, for a total of 78 damage capacity.  Each leg has 21 internal and ~42 armor, for a total of 63 damage capacity. Blowing off both legs would take a combined total of 126 damage, or almost double what it takes to carve through the CT.

The "Problem" with legs is that in CBT where these values were originally balanced, a leg was only hit 1:9 times, the least hit location next to the cockpit (which was 1:36). This meant that fully armored legs were rarely blown off (unless a shin kicking competition started, which it did often in 3025 games.) 

In MW games the legs are extremely easy to hit because a.) they are big, b.) In MW:4 damage from one leg would transfer to the next leg, making it insanely easy to blow both off without even thinking about which one was a smoldering burning wreck.

Solve the problem of damage transfer by making hits on a "destroyed" leg do nothing, and increase leg armor and internals slightly based on their balanced values from CBT, and everything should feel about right.

[lordrushx1]

Now, what I am about to say is based solely from the Battletech [Kesmai BT-MPBT3025] side of things.
Gents...this is and has been the topic of all topics for ages. No community will ever agree.
However, there is one thing no one can ever argue. LEGS ARE A PART OF A MECH. And, according to the ROC of Solaris, any part of a Mech is fair game.

For the sake of argument, you could say "I want the match to last longer" or " I want to play honorable " ..well, all of that is crap. The object of the game is to eliminate your opponent. Who the hell in there right mind would want to delay that? Well, I can say majority of the BT community didnt and wouldnt. If you came off screaming foul or dishonorable play you were laughed at. Believe me, Scorps for a good part of a year tried playing the whole "attack CT" game. And we lost our ass! Then we wised up and learned how to play.

This goes the same as heading, critting a mech is the fastest way to end a match against any opponent.
After all, if this were extreme reality and you were actually piloting a mech and facing multiple enemy opponents..would you say "Hey , Lets make this last awhile"   
The name of the game is utter dominance..LTP and you will Live longer  /grins

[=]FC[=Striker]

The question isn't whether it is honorable or dishonorable outside the MW video game realm. There are ways that it is balanced for BT that was not something that affected the video game world. When considering legging for the video game world you have to take the reasons into account that would lead to people being pissed about it. Legs in MW4 are easy to hit and fragile even with armor. Having extremely weak legs has nothing to do with needing to ltp Lordrush, and anyone who says that getting legged means you don't know how to play is a moron.

Zeus actually hit the nail on the head with his analysis of why legging was frowned upon in MW4 at least. If legs react in MWLL like they do in MW4 then legging is definitely a "cheap" tactic to use. I also have another idea for those that think legging is a skilled way to play in the video game version. Have a friend read a BT novel and then rip out all the pages that actually have intense mech fights in them. Have that friend replace those pages with a simple sentence and then you read the book. Here is the sentence.

/startbattle
"They stormed the battlefield and all shot each others legs as fast as they could."
/endbattle

Before you come back with anything witty about how cool legging is and that it makes you such an awesome player, just think about how the stories would be affected if they were based on your awesome legging theory. Shooting legs is just fine if it is a bad shot, but simply only targeting legs in the MW video game world was just exploiting a weakness that would take away from any fun you could really have in the game.

Aside from the arguments stated about how legging allows you to win which is what everyone wants, please try to explain how you logically consider legging to contribute anything to the fun factor of the community outside of your own ego.

Striker

[Fokker1138]

I loved the Arrow IV in previuos MW games, Will it still be fire and forget at 2km or will it be "balanced"

I hope the community is a little more hardcore than some of the people I found online in other MW games. I remember once being chastized for being a "Legger" by loading my Medium mech with 5 med lasers and focusing on my opponents damaged legs. I hope the game will be balanced enough where attempts to min max or fight with a specific strategy is considered good play and not "cheating"

I thought the object was to "win"  

Pale I think you must have always missed the point about why legging was frowned upon. It isn't because it was a strategy that was awesome, it is because the legs were weak, the fun of the game was prolonged battles in mobile mechs, and overall it took very little skill. If everyone legged instead of shooting for arms/torso then the game would have been very little fun to play. To you it may have been fun, but that is because you were the one that was winning by legging instead of the slugfest which most people that like MW games enjoy. I understand wanting to win, but winning at the cost of the communities fun factor is not worth it.

Legging will still be frowned upon in MWLL unless they make legs as strong as torso pieces, and even then intentional legging will still probably be unacceptable. Who wants to be constantly gimped in a game where the attraction is huge, mobile, and lethal machines? The only way I see legging as somewhat viable is if I can kill you center torso just as fast or faster then you can by legging, and then like I said before, it is still something most people would frown upon.

Striker

Considering the legs are a smaller target in constant motion for the most part, I don't see how it takes very little skill.  If you don't like it, be more precise and take out the other guy first.  I've dealt with people trying that as a tactic and I would always focus the same areas to destroy their mech as quick as possible.  It's a fight, not a duel at 20 paces.  If you want to RP the clanner and call it cheap or whatever, then by all means.  The point is to drop the other guy, I can understand calling pop-tarting cheap if you're using 3rd person view, but if you can do it from in the cockpit, then more power to you.

If you really want to know not fun, it's setting up an DirectIP match, spending 10 minutes on your load out and then having the fight be over due to a lucky laser hit that wiped out the cockpit.  That was probably one of my worst MW2 experiences and I wasn't even on the receiving end.

[Bcbear]

Why don't we take the conversation about leg shots out of the arrow IV thread, k?


Now.... Back on topic...

I think that arrow IVs will be a great tactic for teams, as they can drop arrows anywhere there is a TAG-equipped player.
I'm pretty sure that long reload time, and low ammo, just like the other MW games, would limit their close range use.
But I have a question regarding the Arrow IV's....
Who gets the points for the damage done by the missile?
The mech who fired it ?
The BA who made sure it got to it's target ?
Both?

(Personally, I think any missiles guided via TAG should split the c-bills between the participating players, giving both the launcher and the spotter cash for their efforts.
Thing is, I'm not sure if this is even possible, any Dev care to enlighten me? )