ETQW replay value

[AoP]

I've posted this on the ET:QW community forums. All those playing the beta, tell me what you think.

I have no idea what you just said. I am saying that very few people in W:ET would play fuel dump over and over and over and over and over and over and over without playing some other map in-between. Hence, when the retail game comes out and people aren't playing sewer over and over and over and over and over and over and over without a different map thrown in there it won't be seen as a map with little replay value.

I'll go even further. I say the whole game has very little replay value.
The answer to "why that" is simple: the objective based game mode is blessing and curse at the same time.
Blessing to that extent that it gives all effort a meaning. It's just more fun trying to actually 'do' something than just hopping around a flag pole.
Curse to the extent that it makes the game very, very predictable.
As a defender, you simply know the enemy will have to attack the objective.
As an attacker, you simply know the enemy will be waiting there.
How often can you try to rush the EMP disruptor, the Sewer Grates, the control room without having the feeling "damn, didn't I just do this 5 minutes ago", without simply getting bored of it?
How often can you drop APTs or AVTs or Trip/Proxy mines, without having the feeling "damn, did I drop 5 of those this round or more like 15 already?"
Chances are that not all 12 of the retail maps will be so great that they make it into regular rotations on servers, so that one will end up playing pretty much the same maps over and doing the same stuff over and over again.
I'm already getting bored just thinking of it.

In the end, it won't make a difference which objective one has to blow up, one has to hack or to construct... it always ends up in rushing and pressing "F" till one dies or completes the objective.

I honestly hope Beta2 will prove me wrong in my current point of view, but I have very little hope.

[xKamikazex]

I can see your point AoP, but would have to disagree. I understand your point on the predictable attacker/defender stance, but the same thing could be said about BF2 any many of their maps. Claymore here, support guy there. Which is one of the reasons why I stopped playing in the first place. But it's not limited to only those FPS games. Look at any Online FPS - Counter Strike, COD, AA. All those games have predictable game play.

However, there are two main factors that make the game play predictable.
1. Limited amount of variety in - Hand Held weapons, Vehicles, Classes to play or any sort of special abilities.
2. Level Design - Some level designs are just not as complicated as others, which makes it seems like there are so few ways to go and you find yourself repeating the same course of action.

Sewer in ET:QW has both of these. Very little vehicle variety (and very unbalanced at that), plus Sewer is a pretty basic map. I do think if there is a Beta2, that Valley will surely bring a nice refreshed look at the Enemy Territory game play.

P.S. I also think we are all getting sick of all these Beta parts of games since it's only 1-2 levels to play on, so if you really like the game, you'll play it over and over and over. But you will burn yourself out faster because there is no change of scenery.

[AoP]

I can see your point AoP, but would have to disagree. I understand your point on the predictable attacker/defender stance, but the same thing could be said about BF2 any many of their maps.
Claymore here, support guy there.

Yes and no. The claymores and support whores are a constant problem of course, but the maps themselves are not that repetetive because you're more free in your decision where to go. You might have taken most of the map before the enemy team decides to intervene.
That's just not possible in ET:QW.

Which is one of the reasons why I stopped playing in the first place. But it's not limited to only those FPS games. Look at any Online FPS - Counter Strike, COD, AA. All those games have predictable game play.

Yes, of course. You know there'll be people with weapons waiting and the longer you play the better you'll know the usual choke points on maps. Yet we're talking about something that's been advertised as a 'tactical' game - yet a major tactical element, that of surprise, is completely removed by the linear gameplay.

Sewer in ET:QW has both of these. Very little vehicle variety (and very unbalanced at that), plus Sewer is a pretty basic map. I do think if there is a Beta2, that Valley will surely bring a nice refreshed look at the Enemy Territory game play.

I really hope you're right. So far, I think the only reason for me to buy ET:QW would be being able to play this mod.

P.S. I also think we are all getting sick of all these Beta parts of games since it's only 1-2 levels to play on, so if you really like the game, you'll play it over and over and over. But you will burn yourself out faster because there is no change of scenery.

Very true.

[Killgarr]

WOW! Good topic...I can go off on this for hours.

      Ok, many of you are FPS fans and know a good map means the world. We all have seen "Office" servers for CS source, and a few other maps. I dont hit those servers due to the fact that I like variety a little too much. But dont ya think those ppl know the choke points, where ppl will be and what they will have (equipment wise)? Hell ya they do, but ya know what makes each map different? Each map challenging? Humans, the human element that people will do the least expected things make you play that round over and over. The fact that there will always be someone better and smarter than you.
      Some games have taken that away, enter BF2142, the game that is fun...but then not. No game I have found gets more repetitive than BF2142, it has found a way to take that human element out (I dont know how).
      I was at the E3 show in 2006 and got to play "Valley", its a nice map, but it too is small, but has 3 main outside areas to attack. I feel that the variety of maps and and community additions (maps, mods and so on) will keep the game alive for a long time.  This will depend alot on how community maps are implemented. Being able to download them on the fly (ie CSS and DODS) is a MUST!.
     In closing, since I have jumped all over the place in this post...I dont think we have anything to fear in the replay value area of ETQW.

[xKamikazex]

In terms of community maps or 3rd party maps, I'm not so sure they will be picked up by many of the "Ranked" server very quickly. I bet you that it'll have to go through a painstaking review that'll probably take months anyhow before being approved as an "Official Ranked Map". And since this is already on another topic, most of these new maps won't be played anyway since people would rather play on Ranked Servers for their STATS!! Because we all know - STATS ARE LIFE!!

This is probably why more and more mappers aren't creating maps for the main game anymore, but switching to strong mod teams in order to show off their work, right Jeff?