Author Topic: Recoil/Accuracy  (Read 2636 times)

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Offline Zakatak

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Recoil/Accuracy
« on: July 23, 2009, 02:51:17 AM »
I dont know if you guys noticed. But in MW4, ALL weapons has 100% accuracy and always landed where aimed. I think this is stupid. Yes, im sure by 3050+, most weapons have alot of recoil reduction, but, firing 6 50. cal machine guns/2 heavy gauss cannons? I love the MW3 recoil when PPC is fired. Not that I remember that game much. What was I, 7 years old? I only used like 10 buttons, lol.

Anyway, make them feel like a weapon with massive destructive power. Not a airsoft gun, like the Crysis SCAR.

Offline =CJW= Rad Hanzo

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Re: Recoil/Accuracy
« Reply #1 on: July 23, 2009, 06:34:27 PM »
a gauss weapon cannot produce recoil since the projectile will be accelerated through electromags......no hammers and such things hitting bullets...no recoil from gases that burn and try to force the bullet out of the gun....so i guess the gausses are outta the recoil faction XD
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Offline =KoS= Eldragon

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Re: Recoil/Accuracy
« Reply #2 on: July 23, 2009, 06:39:56 PM »
Gauss rifles would have recoil, since the amount of force (in this case magnetic) applied to the projectile is also applied by the projectile to the gun.

Offline =KoS=Zeus

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Re: Recoil/Accuracy
« Reply #3 on: July 23, 2009, 06:44:42 PM »
One would assume that some of the 12-15 tons that make up a gauss rifle would be invested in some recoil compensation. At any rate, the Devs have talked about this before and I -believe- that weapons will have a cone of fire that the shot falls within. Not 100% sure of this, but talks of pinpoint alpha strikes have been nipped in the bud with such a solution.

Offline =KoS= Eldragon

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Re: Recoil/Accuracy
« Reply #4 on: July 23, 2009, 06:50:42 PM »
Cone of accuracy is really the best way to go. Preferably the size of the cone is displayed to the user (usually in the form of a circle that changes diameter). I'm hoping the size of said cone is impacted by Running/Walking/Taking hits/Jump Jetting

There are quite a few first person shooters out there were you can snipe someone with a pistol from across the map because there is neither cone of inaccuracy or bullet drop (of if there is such a cone, it does not apply to the first bullet fired).


Offline Diablo48

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Re: Recoil/Accuracy
« Reply #5 on: July 24, 2009, 12:04:34 AM »
The cone of fire is hard coded into the engine, so it will be in.

Offline [CW]Aresye

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Re: Recoil/Accuracy
« Reply #6 on: July 24, 2009, 12:22:52 AM »
Awesome!  I had always wondered why MW games had pin-point accuracy every time, when in the books you read about lasers going here and there, dancing over the entire mech.

Since the cone of accuracy in Crysis is obviously based on what position you're in, and how fast you're going, will there be any impact on your aim in MWLL based on how fast you move your mech?

Offline KorJax

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Re: Recoil/Accuracy
« Reply #7 on: July 24, 2009, 02:04:29 AM »
Yes, but because of the motion of the cockpit.  Unlike past MW games the cockpits are real so however much your mech moves, is how much you move.  This will make doing stuff such as sniping while on the move hard unless you have a lot of luck (or skill) on your side.

On that note the animations won't be as "over the top" as MW4's were for this reason.

Offline Zakatak

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Re: Recoil/Accuracy
« Reply #8 on: July 24, 2009, 04:04:16 AM »
Cone of accuracy is really the best way to go. Preferably the size of the cone is displayed to the user (usually in the form of a circle that changes diameter). I'm hoping the size of said cone is impacted by Running/Walking/Taking hits/Jump Jetting

There are quite a few first person shooters out there were you can snipe someone with a pistol from across the map because there is neither cone of inaccuracy or bullet drop (of if there is such a cone, it does not apply to the first bullet fired).



Recoil in games like Crysis and Call of Duty. When aiming down sights, bullets are 100% accurate. It has everything to do with kickback. Bullets go where your gun barrel points.

Offline =KoS=Zeus

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Re: Recoil/Accuracy
« Reply #9 on: July 24, 2009, 08:21:04 PM »
The cone of accuracy is less about hitting or missing your opponent, and more about hitting your opponent in the area where your AC/20 just caved their armor in. I'm excited to see that MW:LL will more or less be supporting the two favored combat tactics of CBT. Shoot and Scoot, and Dig In.

Shoot and Scoot is primarily used when the enemy has dug in, the enemy has superior ranged weapons, and/or the terrain offers no defensive advantage. Primarily used by lighter chassis against heavier ones, shooting and scooting improves your defenses at the cost of accuracy, brings you into range, and hopefully makes the enemy overheat or run out of ammunition so you can dislodge them. If your enemy is faster than you, out ranges you, and has open terrain to keep you at arms length, then hide until a lance mate can help.

Example: Thanatos vs. Timberwolf.
You've got to get the LB-20X, SRMs and Medium Pulse Lasers into range, so concentrate on closing, dodging, torso twisting to spread damage, and get in there. Hopefully the Timberwolf will run out of LRM ammo and then overheat by over using his lasers. Either the Timberwolf will sit tight and hope he's done enough damage to you on the way in to finish you off before you finish him, or you'll displace him. Remember, the T-wolf can also shoot and scoot, so if his back isn't against the wall his superior speed AND range will turn this tactic into a death march for the Thanatos.

Dig In is primarily used in a place with excellent defensive terrain where you have either superior ranged weapons, or, your armor is thick enough to absorb a higher volume of long range weapons than you are firing back. Digging in gives you higher precision to your attacks, but at the cost of defense as you are standing still, this is why it is best used in defensive terrain such as woods, hills, rocky outcroppings, or from high ground. Never Dig In if the enemy out ranges you, instead, hide until a lance mate can help.

Example: Uziel vs. Shadowcat or Awesome vs. Novacat.
In both situations the enemy mechs more or less equal the range of the IS mechs that are dug in. The Uziel is forcing the Shadowcat into a position where it needs to use its speed defensively or it gets hit with deadly accurate PPC fire. Meanwhile, as long as the Scat is moving, its gauss rifle is less accurate. The Uziel need only make sure he doesn't overheat and turn any damaged location away from the Scat to win this fight by destroying the Scat, or running it out of ammunition and forcing it to disengage or charge in close to die.

With the Awesome and Novacat fight, the situation is similar except neither mech is going to run out of ammunition. The Novacat has no reason to close range, but, it can't sit and try to fight a sniper war with the Awesome because the Awesome has cover. This forces the Novacat to move, reducing accuracy, building up heat, and generally frustrating him. Meanwhile, the Awesome is sitting pretty with thick armor, cover, minimal additional heat other than weapon fire, and pinpoint accuracy from standing still. The Novacat should probably reconsider this fight.

Offline Epicon

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Re: Recoil/Accuracy
« Reply #10 on: July 25, 2009, 04:34:10 AM »
And that's Combat school for today children.
NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM...(insert more *NOM*s here)

Offline Stahlseele

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Re: Recoil/Accuracy
« Reply #11 on: July 25, 2009, 11:16:16 AM »
Well, in a Mech Versus Mech Environment that might be pretty good.
But with Aerospace and Battle-Armor and TAG/ArtilleryLRM?
Standing still makes you a sitting Duck for those, as it well should.
And other than in CBT/MegaMek in an Ego-Perspective there is one single difference that can render such tactics useless.
In CBT/MegaMek, when you see someone, they can see you.
And due to Torso-Twist and Range on Arm-Based weapons they can in most cases shoot back at you.
In Ego-Perspective? Not so much. Creeping up from behind will be the most important Tactic in this one i think . .
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Offline Sirius

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Re: Recoil/Accuracy
« Reply #12 on: July 25, 2009, 11:28:31 AM »
Nova Cat vs Awesome in that situation would probably work out with the NC guy backing out of range to 23 hexes (unless the Awesome has ER PPCs, in which case 24-25), standing still, and just plinking away from out of range until the Awesome realised just how broken ER large lasers really are.

Offline =KoS=Zeus

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Re: Recoil/Accuracy
« Reply #13 on: July 26, 2009, 10:47:21 AM »
Well, yes, of course, that's why I said "more or less the same range." Besides, currently the devs are implementing one type of each weapon rather than a clan and IS version like CBT has. This means that the ER PPCs and ERLL on the Novacat are the same range as the PPCs and Large Laser on the Awesome, at least, for now.

Going back to artillery and aerospace, etc. Yes, all of those factor into the basic CBT mech strategies by altering the parameters of a fight, as any addition of forces to either side of a 1 vs. 1 battle will. Aerospace bombers will require Aerospace interceptors to counter, aerospace interceptors will require flak tanks to counter, flak tanks will require artillery to counter, artillery will require light and medium mechs to counter, those require heavy and assault mechs, etc, etc, etc.

Offline Epicon

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Re: Recoil/Accuracy
« Reply #14 on: July 26, 2009, 03:06:20 PM »
Basically the clans are being neutered. ;D
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