Author Topic: 'Mech mod showcase  (Read 5042 times)

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Offline Skeeter14

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Re: 'Mech mod showcase
« Reply #15 on: August 18, 2009, 06:05:27 PM »
though most of yee, dont like clan tech, they are much better to use since there lighter, wich is why i use them when i can.
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Offline =KoS=Zeus

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Re: 'Mech mod showcase
« Reply #16 on: August 18, 2009, 10:14:45 PM »
Weight is generally a lower priority reason for why clan tech is superior. For me it is range, then damage output, followed by weight and then size.

Clan ER Medium Lasers are brutal because they have the same range as an IS Large Laser, inflict 88% of the damage of an IS Large, weigh 1 ton and take 1 critical space. That is just utterly brutal.

Offline Fokker1138

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Re: 'Mech mod showcase
« Reply #17 on: August 19, 2009, 01:37:20 AM »
Back in MW2 I used to run a Dire Wolf with:
1 C Lg Pulse Laser
6 C M Pulse Laser
2 C LRM 20's with 3 tons of ammo each. 
The rest was dumped into heatsinks and rounding out the armor(not that there was much to round out).  I think it may have run a few tons shy of 100.  At least that's what I remember.  I'm not totally sure about the LRM configuration, but that's what I seem to recall.

:) Back in the MW2Mercs day I sometimes used to run a Dire Wolf with 2 Ultra10s (50rds apiece, maybe 8 seconds fire IIRC) and 3 Large Pulse with the LRM10 left on for looks, was a lot of fun in LAN games where with no lag you could just drop the hammer at medium distance and watch an enemy 'mech dissolve like butter in fire  8)

Loved the MW2 autocannons, but lets face, it all autocannons in MW2 fired like rotary ACs without the jam anyways, so it was autocannon heaven.

I'm pretty sure it's LRM 20's or LRM15's I used, but I'd always use those to rock targets around enough for me to close range and start pinpointing with the Lg Pulse and then once I got in range I'd just unleash all of the Med Pulse all at once and just destroy sections of a mech. 

Offline =KoS=Zeus

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Re: 'Mech mod showcase
« Reply #18 on: August 19, 2009, 06:57:03 AM »
In response to the original post, here is my stab at the challenge.

3025 and then 3050 refit of the Wolf's Dragoon's Annihilator.

Annihilator                 3025 Refit
Mass                         100 tons
Internal Structure         10 tons
Engine (Nissan 200)      8.5 tons
Gyroscope                     2 tons
Cockpit                         3 tons
Armor                        13.5 tons
Heat Sinks (31 total)      21 tons
Armament/Pod Space     42 tons
PPC                  RA        7 tons
Large Laser        RA        5 tons
PPC                  LA        7 tons
Large Laser        LA        5 tons
PPC                  RT        7 tons
Medium Laser     RT        1 ton
Large Laser        LT        5 tons
Large Laser        LT        5 ton5


This 3025 refit of the annihilator does little to address the slow speed of the design. The armor has been increased by a ton (increasing the center and side torso frontal armor by ~25%), while the weapon load has been completely altered, turning it into a potent siege mech. 3 Particle Cannons and 4 Large Lasers replace 7 of the 8 gun ports on the mech, while a single medium laser remains simply to keep the number of weapon ports identical to the standard version. 21 heat sinks allow the Annihilator to maintaining a withering barrage of long range PPC fire indefinitely. Should the enemy decide to close range, then the Annihilator can instead bring its four large lasers to bear. At even closer ranges the pilot can alternate the medium laser for one of the large lasers to help regulate heat build up.

The most problematic issue with the new design is its complete inability to alpha strike without shutting down instantly. The pilot must be careful with weapon selection, so much so that the original ammunition conservation Target Interlock Circuits for the Annihilator's Autocannons were repurposed into selective range bands to ensure that the pilot cannot spike heat too high without at least some effort on the pilot to override the system.

The new machine relies on keeping the enemy at arms length and hitting them with consistent unrelenting damage until they are destroyed, or flee. If an enemy mech closes the range, the 13.5 tons of armor give it equivalent survivability to a Battlemaster, while the combined firepower of 4 large lasers can quickly reduce an enemy mech of any size into slag.

Mechs armed with LRMs are probably the biggest threat to the Annihilator, as they were for the original machine. Infantry, too, can give the mech problems since it has a hard time getting away from them in an urban environment and has insufficient weapons to deal with such threats. Its rear armor, while decent, is not well suited to withstanding a concerted attack, another reason why the machine is best suited to besieging defensive positions and destroying the defenses, then letting more capable urban combat mechs clear the path for it.

Annihilator                 3050 Refit
Mass                          100 tons
Internal Structure          10 tons
Engine (Vlar 300)           19 tons
Gyroscope                      3 tons
Cockpit                          3 tons
Armor  (ferro-fibrous)      15 tons
Heat Sinks (18 double)      8 tons
Armament/Pod Space      42 tons
ER PPC               RA        7 tons
Large Laser         RA        5 tons
ER PPC               LA        7 tons
Large Laser         LA        5 tons
PPC                   RT        7 tons
Small Pulse Laser  RT        1 ton
ER Large Laser     LT        5 tons
ER Large Laser     LT        5 tons


This refit of the Annihilator uses recovered Star League technology. The most difficult part of the upgrade is the engine refit, which replaces the under powered Nissan 200 with a much more powerful 300 Vlar. The new Vlar 300s come equipped with double heat sinks, and the all energy weapon loadout of the new Annihilator is in desperate need of such technology. The 21 single heat sinks are stripped out in favor of the new engine, with an additional 8 double strength freezers mounted in and around the engine. Even though the refit drops 13 heat sinks, it actually has 16% more heat dissipation capabilities than the original, though this upgrade is impressive, the new array of lostech energy weapons quickly overwhelms even this phenomenal heat dissipation.

2 of the 3 PPCs are replaced with the new Magna Firestar Extended Range Particle Cannon while the third remains a regular Hellstar. Two of the Large Lasers are upgraded to Extended Range versions, while the other two remain standard. The almost nostalgic medium laser is replaced with a small pulse laser nestled beneath the Hellstar PPC in the right torso, giving the mech some anti-infantry capability.

Armor has been vastly improved by an additional two and a half tons. In addition, the armor is ferro-fibrous, giving the mech an unprecedented 34% boost to armor protection.

As a whole the machine has devastating long range capabilities, now out ranging the LRMs it used to fear, greatly improved speed, and a wide variety of variable range energy weapons. The computer program used to moderate heat build up in the original refit has been modified with the new variety of weapons, giving the pilot the best weapon grouping for the job.

The machine is still plagued by apocalyptic heat build up if the pilot does not selectively fire the massive array of weapons, and it lacks a good offense against enemy infantry, but is not completely defenseless. Its improved armor and small pulse laser make all but the most concerted infantry attack a costly failure at best.

The lack of ammunition, and use of a standard engine makes the mech extremely durable and survivable. It lacks a costly endo-steel chassis, so old models can be upgraded, so long as the facilities they have available can replace the engine and heat sinks of the original, and battle damage to the internal structure is relatively cheap to repair in comparison. The armor can be replaced with new ferro-fibrous giving it excellent protection, or standard slab plate if the newer stuff is unavailable. The largest risk is losing the double heat sinks, as the new energy weapons quickly overwhelm single heat sinks. If the newer weapons are destroyed, however, then replacing them with the cheaper older models can turn the machine into a deadly medium range killer, enabling it to bring nearly all its guns to bear at once without instantly shutting down, a feat the old refit could not claim.


Thoughts?

Offline xInVicTuSx

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Re: 'Mech mod showcase
« Reply #19 on: August 19, 2009, 05:42:50 PM »
Looks pretty solid for range and damage, but it seems like heat would be an extreme problem as you're using something that was originally designed to be very low heat.
So it seems like for the cost you could field an awesome or other such IS mech with some upgrades and let it take up an energy weapon role it was more built for.
Though the lack of ammo would increase survivability, the catastrophic heat build up should a double heatsink be lost plus the general slow speed anyways could spell instant trouble.
That said, considering the Novacat costs about twice as much as an Annihilator and this refit would give it even more firepower than a Novacat, it would be interesting to see these compete in a firepower contest. I'm still considered over heat buildup though.

Edit* Now that I think about it though, this would kinda bring it to Omnimech status, I mean turning a ballistics mech into an energy mech just seems a huge leap for a non Omnimech to handle without it being a complete custom job and thus a pain to build and keep up.
« Last Edit: August 19, 2009, 05:55:24 PM by xInVicTuSx »
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Offline =KoS=Zeus

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Re: 'Mech mod showcase
« Reply #20 on: August 19, 2009, 07:22:17 PM »
Yes, remember though that the Annihilator is a Wolf's Dragoons custom design, so pseudo-omni status is not too far fetched of an idea. I also made sure to maintain the same number of weapons on the mech throughout.

Heat is indeed the biggest worry. The machine fights similar to the Stalker, which is also a heat monster. At long range it fires one set of weapons, at short range a second set. The idea was that it brings the same firepower to the field as an Awesome, with superior heat dissipation (slightly), and if the enemy tries to charge the lines then it can switch over to the large lasers as needed.

Another variant could look like this.

Annihilator                 3025 Refit version 2
Mass                         100 tons
Internal Structure         10 tons
Engine (Nissan 200)      8.5 tons
Gyroscope                     2 tons
Cockpit                         3 tons
Armor                        13.5 tons
Heat Sinks (41 total)      31 tons
Armament/Pod Space     32 tons
PPC                  RA        7 tons
Medium Laser     RA        1 tons
PPC                  LA        7 tons
Medium Laser     LA        1 tons
PPC                  RT        7 tons
Medium Laser     RT        1 ton
PPC                  LT        7 tons
Medium Laser     LT        1 tons

This version all but eliminates heat build up despite sporting quad particle cannons. The original 4 medium lasers provide close range backup weapons. The mech can perform an alpha strike and not even have to worry about shutdown.  Speed and armor become the main problem areas.

The trouble with this design is it is friggin' boring! But, it is a lot closer to the original Annihilator in design. 4 long range death cannons, 4 shorter range backup guns, slow and purposeful, best defense is a strong offense.

Offline Stahlseele

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Re: 'Mech mod showcase
« Reply #21 on: August 20, 2009, 01:13:51 AM »
Well, remember there ARE THe Anni 3A and the 4A.
One uses ER Medium Lasers and 8 Light AC2's to pick stuff apart from range.
But only usefull as a crit seeker mech, nothing else.

The other uses Heavy PPC's and Light AC2's and LB-X10 AC's in a good mix.

I don't know which is which right now, but one of those also had a Targeting Computer.
And i think the other could actually flip his Arms to the back. Which is scary with the Loadout in these Arms.
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Offline =KoS=Zeus

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Re: 'Mech mod showcase
« Reply #22 on: August 20, 2009, 09:31:21 AM »
Annihilator                 3025 Refit version 3
Mass                         100 tons
Internal Structure         10 tons
Engine (Nissan 200)      8.5 tons
Gyroscope                     2 tons
Cockpit                         3 tons
Armor                        13.5 tons
Heat Sinks (23 total)      13 tons
Armament/Pod Space     50 tons
PPC                  RA        7 tons
Medium Laser     RA        1 tons
PPC                  LA        7 tons
Medium Laser     LA        1 tons
AC/2                LT        6 tons
AC/2                LT        6 tons
AC/2 Ammo (180) LT      4 tons
Medium Laser     LT        1 ton
AC/2                RT        6 tons
AC/2                RT        6 tons
AC/2 Ammo (180) RT      4 tons
Medium Laser     RT        1 ton

Offline xInVicTuSx

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Re: 'Mech mod showcase
« Reply #23 on: August 20, 2009, 01:18:05 PM »
Reminds me of a mauler but with PPCs instead of LRMS.
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Offline =KoS=Zeus

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Re: 'Mech mod showcase
« Reply #24 on: August 20, 2009, 07:42:12 PM »
Just about. 10 tons heavier, using only level 1 tech, and slower than dirt.

Offline Diablo48

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Re: 'Mech mod showcase
« Reply #25 on: August 21, 2009, 06:58:55 AM »
Meh, if you want to see scary, you should remember two things.

1.) The Annihilator came from the Dragoons, and by extension is a downgraded Clan design.
2.) The AC 10 of the original is a one to one swap for a Clan Gauss Rifle.

When you put those together you get the original looking like a long ranged monster that can rip apart almost anything from an incredible distance.

Offline (TLL) Heretic

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Re: 'Mech mod showcase
« Reply #26 on: August 21, 2009, 11:50:47 AM »
Meh, if you want to see scary, you should remember two things.

1.) The Annihilator came from the Dragoons, and by extension is a downgraded Clan design.
2.) The AC 10 of the original is a one to one swap for a Clan Gauss Rifle.

When you put those together you get the original looking like a long ranged monster that can rip apart almost anything from an incredible distance.

Either that or a big fat pinata for the ASF boys...at least the AC10s don't explode with fatal consequences (you can dump specific ammo bins on the Anni to avoid that, no such choice with Gauss).

Main problem for the Anni is that she's too slow for anything but defence or, as Zeus stated in another thread, in the attack; but only if faster machines have shepherded the enemy/pinned them or removed any threats on the way to a base or other objective.  The 4 Gauss version would certainly fail as a direct fire support machine, all assets on the field can outmaneuver or just avoid it.

1 on 1 I think I'd prefer the old Dragoon Anni, or the LBX10 one over the Gauss rifle version in all terrain except for deserts, saltflats or Ohio ;)  Faster recycle on the ACs than the Gauss, increased accuracy and crit seeking with the LBXs, plus just slightly less suicidal machine.

But I do like the Clan design, it's the same philosophy as the Hunchback IIC, fire all of your guns, death or glory machine (ie. fatally flawed but spectacular).


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Offline xInVicTuSx

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Re: 'Mech mod showcase
« Reply #27 on: August 21, 2009, 02:11:00 PM »
Yes, defense only for open field. But from my understanding of modern warfare, the objective is usually some sort of urban area, and that's where all that speed in attack is useless.
The anni would be a great urban attacker in my opinion, being tech 1 and cheap, but pack amazing fire power and being pretty tough with a few armor mods. Someone said the Anni is a by the book assault class, save it for the final siege whether on offense or defense, and that works for me.
Thing I don't get is, other assaults aren't THAT much faster (the 100 tonners anyways) and I never understood the reasoning behind Assault spam in many multiplayer and especially the singleplayer games in MW3 and 4. All that will be solved I think by the fact that it will cost money to build mechs and so you can quite literally get two mediums for the price of one assault.
All that said, I'm taking a very strict no cross tech view on this. If clan tech was allowed for the Anni (as its definitely in a gray area between clan and IS designs) then I'd use it tons simply out of pride because the low cost and high clan weapon choice is a gift that just keeps on giving, even if you don't want to take it to Kansas fights.
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