MW5 Sued

[Uranium - 235]

Frankly I think the similarity between those two mechs is coincidental at best.

The legs could be a Hunchback for all I notice, the arms that of a Mauler. Remove the nipple-guns and put the missile rack somewhere else and they're almost nothing alike.

[Cujo]

these legal folk... i spit on them and their family!

I hope that isn't a general statement.  And it isn't the lawyer's choice to sue them.

Lawyers are all scum.  Where's the problem with what he said? 

America would be better without them.  We wouldn't have so many pansy candy-asses whining and using lawyers to get their way.

These statements are EXTREMELY offensive to me and I'd like an apology please.  Please lay off the Lawyer quibs and stay on topic.

[Mr_Blastman]

these legal folk... i spit on them and their family!

I hope that isn't a general statement.  And it isn't the lawyer's choice to sue them.

Lawyers are all scum.  Where's the problem with what he said?  

America would be better without them.  We wouldn't have so many pansy candy-asses whining and using lawyers to get their way.

These statements are EXTREMELY offensive to me and I'd like an apology please.  Please lay off the Lawyer quibs and stay on topic.

I'm not apologizing for an opinion, to do so would be giving in to political correctness.  I bought an assault rifle with my tax refund if that gives you any idea of where I stand.  It _is_ on topic and the fact is Harmony Gold is using lawyers to sue Weisman to stop him from using certain mechs.  They need to grow up.

Copywright laws are being abused to the extreme nowadays and we are in serious need of IP reform.  Harmony Gold has been sitting on IP for years and they are making zero use of it.  They should either poop or get off the pot.  If they don't use their IP to generate PC gaming content, they sure as heck should not try and bully around other companies that clearly are not trying to call their series Macross/Robotech or anything else like it.

Battletech is clearly a different kind of series altogether.  It even has radically different storylines, technology and so on.  The resemblance is at best pictoral and I hope Weisman stands his ground.  It is a shame that he lost the first time around because it set a precedent with which he can and is being bullied with in the future.

Look, if you're a Lawyer, you should learn to take it.  I'm a Stock Broker and I get shat on all the time in the media as of late.  Do I care?  No.  I accept my profession and what it is and realize that people are entitled to opinions just as much as they are rear ends.  It is life.  Deal with it.

[Cujo]

these legal folk... i spit on them and their family!

I can take alot of lawyer jokes (that isn't one and if you're gunna tell a lawyer joke, at least make it funny), but you leave the family out of it because that's unwarranted.

Ah, stocks, my Dad does securities regulatory stuff, they're all so full of the SEC's inadequacies, you may enjoy this cartoon.
http://img40.imageshack.us/img40/9589/att00650.jpg  (linked so as to not take up a huge amt of space)

[Mr_Blastman]

Hehe, another one I was telling clients all day long:

Did you hear about that Bernie guy?

No?

He madoff with all the money.

har har har

I liked the Cartoon. 

[Landros Radick]

...the fact is Harmony Gold is using lawyers to sue Weisman to stop him from using certain mechs.  They need to grow up.

Copywright laws are being abused to the extreme nowadays and we are in serious need of IP reform.  Harmony Gold has been sitting on IP for years and they are making zero use of it.  They should either poop or get off the pot.  If they don't use their IP to generate PC gaming content, they sure as heck should not try and bully around other companies that clearly are not trying to call their series Macross/Robotech or anything else like it.

Protecting your assets from unlicensed use isn't copyright law abuse nor should it be reformed so that even if you aren't doing anything that people can take it and make money off it without your consent. Considering that Harmony Gold isn't just sitting on the IP (Robotech Shadow Chronicles, games from the last few years and the Robotech Live Action movie thats in production) they have every right to cease and desist.

Battletech is clearly a different kind of series altogether.  It even has radically different storylines, technology and so on.  The resemblance is at best pictoral and I hope Weisman stands his ground.  It is a shame that he lost the first time around because it set a precedent with which he can and is being bullied with in the future.

If Star Wars were to throw in a ship that looked almost exactly like the Enterprise, you don't think Paramount has any right to bitch and complain because they aren't doing anything that you deem worthwhile?

[jehosephat2k]

Phew. MAJOR league hassle registering to this site. 20 minutes of this and that and that not right and this an.... bah....



Any rate:

"Actually this isnt true. Mektek never asked harmony gold for permission. "

Nonsense. We asked HG for permission and they gave it to us. In writing. I have seen the document myself.

"The reason why they are able to use them is because mektek isnt making any money off the mekpaks."

We re able to use them because we asked for permission and they gave it to us.

"Mektek even turned down the mw4 source code from microsoft because of this. (and the fact that microshaft would have their hands all over the mekpaks and prob try and sell them) I would know, i used to be a mektek lifer and beta tester for the mekpaks....Glad to have moved on..."

Correct. But alot of things have changed since them.

Regardless we have HG approval to this day to use this IP but other things are coming into play which are moving us in another direction which I cannot comment on at this time (but it is good, just not for y'all I guess).

[Flyingdebris]

there are a lot of misconceptions here.

myth 1.

fasa stole the designs back in the day.

Wrong, fasa liscensed the designs, unfortunately they did not liscense them from the proper people and didn't realize til they were getting sued

myth 2.

they are trying to steal the designs again and/or HG needs to grow up

Wrong, catalyst/S n T/HG have been working together towards finding a way to legally use those designs.  Its just that at the last minute the whole deal fell through.  The production of the mw5 trailer was under the assumption that they'd finally get the rights to use those old designs, and every indication was in their favor up until quite literally the last minute.

Now that they no longer have the rights to those particular old designs, HG is legally obliged to defend its rights.  However, S n T and piranha games can easily pull to their defense the point that their version of the macross design looks considerably different enough to not be lawsuit material.

if you look at the mw5 warhammer, you'll notice that while the silhouette and weapon placement is pretty much the same, how the mech achieves this is different, as are all the actual details.

[Mr_Blastman]

The thing is, I have seen zero Robotech/Macross _games_ worth a darn in the last 10 years.  There was that one console game, but that was arcade at best and then there was Macross VO, which hardly qualifies as something that is Mechwarrior caliber.  If Weisman had clearly gone out of his way to semi-mimic everything from the SDF, LAM's (there were MW lams for sure), Zentradi plot, story elements etc., then I'd say there was intent.  As far as I can tell, Weisman never intended to infringe upon Macross nor did he intend to steal their thunder.

Big robots are big robots.  I'm a big robot lover.  I don't see a Macross Warrior or Robotech Warrior nor do I think we will ever see one (damn shame too, I'd LOVE to play one) so if anything HG should be someone open to discussions on allowing Weisman to proceed with his clearly different designs.

If he were blatantly infringing, they should protect their IP.  In this case though, I don't think he is (or was--with the exception of LAMs but, a car is a car and many companies make cars so you could use that analogy, HG doesn't own the sole right to make a LAM--what about Thexder?  It did just fine as a franchise).

I want a new MW, badly.  Anything that gets in the way of an expedited and complete release is feels like holding my family hostage.  I think we can all agree we want a new MW. 

[MikeWanDo]

First of all, lawyer opinions aren't really relevant so shouldn't be posted. But if anyone does post lawyer opinions, don't get all offended and try to demand an apology, it's just some person online you'll probably never meet, just drop it.

Anyway the whole dispute is pretty interesting. So far this is the most informative article I've read so far on the issue, and it explains how FASA did license the rights to use the mechs, but they licensed them from Twentieth Century Imports when they arguably should have gotten them from Harmony Gold. However another interesting point brought up in the article is:

"a legal dispute has been going on over in Japan over the last few years as to who really DOES own the rights to those mecha designs. Harmony Gold's claim that they advanced in the '90s court case comes from their partnership with Tatsunoko Studios, who was one of the companies involved in producing the Macross TV series. However, even though the Japanese courts have given Tatsunoko the "author's rights" to the series, they have given ownership of the character and mecha designs to Studio Nue, the company that designed them."

At any rate I expect that MW5 will be made, or at the very least this won't be the sole cause of it not being made. If Harmony Gold really does have the rights to the design and the designs are similar enough to sue, then the Warhammer in game will either be changed to not look so similar or they'll swap it for a different mech. Yes, some people might be sad to see the Warhammer go, but it's not exactly the most important part of the game.

[DoA]

I almost have to laugh,

I just took a class in business school that covered this exact sort of copy right infringement. Right about now I do wish I could go and get the notes from the class on this exact issue, to show you exactly what is going on in the debate in the courts.

Like it or not, lawyers are going to debate this legal argument, and its quite sad that you would attack a person you don even know because of there profession. You never know who is going to be the pro-bono legal counsel for a battered womens shelter.

Wohoo just found my notes here we go:

The owner has the life + 70 or if its a corporation its creation + 120 years. So whoever is declared the owner by the Japanese courts will have these rights for a long time, unless they are sold.

The test were looking for is the "Likelihood of confusion" as made by a "reasonable person" -> EG: If you took 20 people randomly from the US and asked them to look at the Macross art, and the 'Hammer, would they believe they were the same?

Also along these lines, we have the derivative art: This is the exclusive right of the owner, so even if your arguing  that the 'Hammer and the unseen are derivative artwork there still the owners.

BTW: you can not copyright the giant robot concept, only the expression of that concept that is Macross.

Hate the facts if you would like to, and if so, vote your change, but do not hate those folks who are working to uphold your authors rights as were put in the US Constitution.

[~SJ~ Karuik]

OK, i havent thought to look in this thread for a while and i think i might have blown that a bit out of proportion i admit. bad mood made worse by the main point of this thread and all 

anyway i should probably clear up what i said was NOT a general statement, more or less the guys who initiated the legal action, going to go change my post right now. sorry.

believe me when i say, around here it seems legal action in an area around sueing is looked upon as work of the devil, you could NOT go through my school and find more than 1 person who wants to be a lawyer, and im not exaggerating. and its true that things like that can rub off on you.

[Ghiest]

Are you guys on crack?

You are hating on company for protecting it's own Intellectual property.  The designed it made it into what they wanted and some schmuck is copying their work and they are the bad guys for taking action against it?

[Flyingdebris]

no one is stealing anything, dammit

S n T simply no longer has the go ahead to use the macross unseens unless they can demonstrate having made enough changes to the aesthetics.

HG wants to make money, they have been trying to figure out how to allow S n T and catalyst to make use of their designs in a way that profits them as any business would.  The legal teams have been working together.  Only problem is the deal fell through and now there's conflicts of interest.

S n T and piranha didn't just get up one morning and decide to jack the old designs on a lark thinking no one would notice.

[theluc]

on MW5 being sued hmm after looking the trailer, pretty sure MWLL will be far superior. The lack of a single player campaign may slow it down but will be a great game for sure.

what i see is that Harmony Gold was just waiting for something like this to happen to make off buck off Battletech again, their way of surviving i guess since they are not really active.

for what i seen so far of the trailer the game itself looks good visually and for the game play, not convince yet. MWLL seems to offer far more, fed up with a two legged tank .. get to fly, can also be a lil pesky annoyance all over the opponent or feel like be low profile and have a big gun well plenty of options but MW5 going back to 3015, bad decision from the start, means no clans, half the weapons we know, plenty of mechs missing on the good side we get lost tech but then again wasn't suppose to be lost in the first place.

so the fact its getting sued and may not see launch on the market is no big issue to me, official products have been junk in the last few years, all graphics no game play value. Battletech and Mechwarrior fan should just wait for MWLL which i wait since the site was launched.

MWLL gonna be the real deal guys................................... by the fans for the fans !!!