Author Topic: A suggestion for Lasers  (Read 2457 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline (TLL) Heretic

  • Living Legend
  • *******
  • Posts: 2210
  • Karma: 117
A suggestion for Lasers
« on: September 10, 2009, 03:30:21 PM »
'been thinking about this for a while now...

The idea is this...Lasers (ER, Standard, Micro and Heavy) discharge their beams, and thus their damage, over 2-3 seconds, thus resembling a cutting beam, rather than a single insta-blast, why? Balance, Skill and coolness.

Let me explain a little more, in books and the tabletop LB Autocannon X's and pulse lasers are the weapons of choice for anti-ASF/fast-mover work, but I'm willing to bet that in the playtests the devs have discovered that ERLarge Lasers (If they have the  MW2,3 & 4 style full instant discharge) are the best weapons to hit any fast movers.  And in the MW games, lasers always almost completely negated the defensive value of high speed vehicles.

What I'm suggesting is that if Lasers did their damage over 2 or even 3 seconds then you could take defensive maneuvers to avoid some or most of the damage, forcing the attacker to track the enemy (like with every other weapon).  Even an Assault 'mech could twist their torso and attempt to spread the damage over more areas, forcing the attacker to use some skill to land all the damage in one location.

Not suggesting this for Pulse lasers, their faster discharge would mimic their tabletop increased accuracy, and their increased weight and reduced damage and range would balance their advantage of a 1 second discharge.

Plus I'd be cool to see the Laser cutting through an enemy and watch them twist and jump as I track them, in a vain attempt to avoid the damage landing in one location 8)

So, what do people think?

EDIT: typo


Pecuniam non olet
Quid enim saluis infamia nummis

"Make this game my way, because I HAVE A DISORDER!" - VictorMorson
".....show us on the doll where MWLL touched you bad." - KingLeer

Offline Bensam123

  • MechWarrior
  • **
  • Posts: 203
  • Karma: 0
Re: A suggestion for Lasers
« Reply #1 on: September 10, 2009, 05:37:00 PM »
If this didn't so closely resemble pulse lasers, I'd say you're onto something good.

I'm a balistic junkie. I like enjoy ACs of all sizes and rounds and gausses. However, I admit they're quite inadequate compared to lasers unless you get into the ridiculously heavy stuff, which can really mess people up.

Why? Because really large lasers are pinpoint accurate and when you fire enough of them at the same time, they instantly destroy or cripple parts of a mech. All it takes is one or two hits from groupings and you explode. Of course the skill point can be argued into the ground

I think this is a good idea as it forces people to actually train their crosshairs on the mech and not just make a one time all out shot at the cockpit and blow the mech to high hell. If the pilot in the mech is good enough on the receiving end he can work to avoid some of the damage as the OP stated. Of course mechs with smaller profiles, that move a lot faster, and that are a lot more agile would benefit quit a bit from this change. However, assault mechs would still be extremely powerful regardless of this change.

This reminds me of the change of pulse lasers from MW3 to MW4. They went from a prolonged burst (holding down the button did x amount of damage over time similar to what the OP is suggesting) to really fast refire rates. I liked the damage over time compared to the machine-gun like characteristics of the MW4 pulse lasers better, but thats just me. This is one of the huge differences I noticed between MW3 and MW4.

Offline SeniorBiscuit

  • Lance Sergeant
  • **
  • Posts: 369
  • Karma: 0
Re: A suggestion for Lasers
« Reply #2 on: September 10, 2009, 05:56:20 PM »
pulse lasers should be like the pulse lasers in MW4

Lasers should be like the pulse lasers in MW3, however id advocate for a 1.5 second discharge, believe me thatll feel plenty long in the middle of a fight.

Offline Rally

  • Lance Captain
  • ***
  • Posts: 697
  • Karma: 12
Re: A suggestion for Lasers
« Reply #3 on: September 10, 2009, 07:01:36 PM »
I vouch for this idea. If we just make the discharge time less than a second, then it will be just like (regular) lasers in MW3. Yes, that's right, (regular) lasers in MW3 worked technically the same as pulse lasers, except for their very quick discharge time (pulse lasers on the other hand discharge for up to 5 or so seconds). This could eliminate those rare but annoying MW4 moments, when you fire lasers just before the enemy mech, which suffers no damage as he passes through the beams a split second after your shot.

Of course, this isn't really that important, but it would be nice to have.

Offline Frenzy

  • Bondsman
  • *
  • Posts: 40
  • Karma: 0
  • The ilClan? I think yes.
Re: A suggestion for Lasers
« Reply #4 on: September 10, 2009, 07:59:14 PM »
I really like this idea. Though none of us have played the current or any build of this game, I remember far too well how annoying the insta-hit and discharge lasers were in MW4. In most hit and run situations normal and ER lasers were far more powerful and useful than pulse lasers. Longer range(?), and instant fire of all the damage means you can pop back around the corner and cool off while your laser recharges.   meanwhile the guy with the pulse maybe got two minor bursts off and almost no accurate damage in the same time.

In most the books it talks quite a few times about the laser creating a scar in the armor from mech moving slightly and the laser dragging across a small bit.

it would be cool to actually have ACs the anti air wep to some degree. DOWN WITH LASERS.

Offline ~SJ~ Karuik

  • Star Captain
  • ***
  • Posts: 1197
  • Karma: 22
  • Lol.
    • Smoke Jaguars
Re: A suggestion for Lasers
« Reply #5 on: September 10, 2009, 10:07:10 PM »
call me paranoid, but in the... i believe things going boom video a mech (not sure which, think an asp) fired off 2 blue (large?) lasers, they seemed to last for about 1-1.5 seconds, of course those MAY have been pulse lasers but they seemed too constant to be pulseys, so for all we know this may already be the case? if not im for it 100%


EDIT - memory was wrong, not an asp, no huge cannons on the sides, it did fire a gauss and THREE lasers though, gimme your thoughts i suppose? and definitely not 1.5 seconds.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xvjKSzz7B8s

28 seconds in

Offline Diablo48

  • Lance Captain
  • ***
  • Posts: 517
  • Karma: 0
Re: A suggestion for Lasers
« Reply #6 on: September 10, 2009, 10:43:05 PM »
While this is an interesting idea, I do feel the need to point out that all weapons have random cones of fire in MWLL, so there will be no more bursts of pinpoint accurate lasers to cut up opponents.  With this feature, I am actually concerned that this could make pinpoint accuracy easier unless the devs come up with a way to make the weapons drift realistically while being fired.

Offline KorJax

  • Level Design (Reader of Stickies)
  • MWLL Developer
  • Living Legend
  • *
  • Posts: 2476
  • Karma: 31
  • Memento Mori
Re: A suggestion for Lasers
« Reply #7 on: September 11, 2009, 12:42:03 AM »
call me paranoid, but in the... i believe things going boom video a mech (not sure which, think an asp) fired off 2 blue (large?) lasers, they seemed to last for about 1-1.5 seconds, of course those MAY have been pulse lasers but they seemed too constant to be pulseys, so for all we know this may already be the case? if not im for it 100%


EDIT - memory was wrong, not an asp, no huge cannons on the sides, it did fire a gauss and THREE lasers though, gimme your thoughts i suppose? and definitely not 1.5 seconds.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xvjKSzz7B8s

28 seconds in

Yes, those are the standard lasers.  That's pretty much how they work.

You can find an example of the pulse lasers at 1:50 in this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TGGmmI4QGDA&feature=channel

...where the ullers are using a combonation of small/medium pulse lasers and beam lasers.

Also, cone of fire doesn't effect EVERY weapon.  Stuff like lasers will obviously be not effected since they have no recoil.

And the cone isn't anything crazy either (atleast at the moment).  It just means you'll not have a likely good time sniping with machine guns/RACS/UAC's,  while more one-shot "sniper" weapons with little recoil like lasers and gauss rifles will be rather accurate.  Mix that in with the mech movement means it's more difficult to "snipe" while moving fast or jump jetting.  Atleast ideally, things are still being tweaked I believe.
« Last Edit: September 11, 2009, 12:57:54 AM by KorJax »

Offline strike4ce

  • Bondsman
  • *
  • Posts: 21
  • Karma: 0
Re: A suggestion for Lasers
« Reply #8 on: September 11, 2009, 01:45:56 AM »
Wasn't the main point of a 'cone of fire' so that 6ERLL Nova Cats wouldn't be running around coring everybody in 1 hit?

What good is it if it doesn't work on instant hit, zero/low-ballistic drop weapons?

Or am I barking up the wrong tree, and group fired lasers and gauss don't all converge on the same pixel?

Offline Bowrrl

  • Lance Sergeant
  • **
  • Posts: 392
  • Karma: 10
Re: A suggestion for Lasers
« Reply #9 on: September 11, 2009, 03:05:56 PM »
I support this idea. A 1.5 second discharge time sounds about perfect.

@Strike4ce
In this pic (http://www.mechlivinglegends.net/cpg/displayimage.php?album=39&pos=69) you can see that it seems like the lasers fire directly from their mounted location and do not converge. Its an old pic so maybe that was an unintended effect and they "fixed" it, but its something.

Offline Uranium - 235

  • Lance Sergeant
  • **
  • Posts: 460
  • Karma: -1
Re: A suggestion for Lasers
« Reply #10 on: September 11, 2009, 04:12:20 PM »
I support this idea. A 1.5 second discharge time sounds about perfect.

@Strike4ce
In this pic (http://www.mechlivinglegends.net/cpg/displayimage.php?album=39&pos=69) you can see that it seems like the lasers fire directly from their mounted location and do not converge. Its an old pic so maybe that was an unintended effect and they "fixed" it, but its something.

That'd be interesting - have the convergence points for weapons set at different ranges based on their 'role'. And depending on the shape and mounting locations of the weapons of your mech, versus the size of your target, you may hit the arms instead of the torso, or maybe the beams will cross, or maybe they'll miss completely... that way a small mech like an Adder could get up in the face of, say, a Nova Cat that's relying completely on Large Lasers and would be a harder target...

Offline xInVicTuSx

  • Alphatester
  • Living Legend
  • *
  • Posts: 2875
  • Karma: 128
  • Knight of the Inner Sphere
Re: A suggestion for Lasers
« Reply #11 on: September 11, 2009, 09:48:43 PM »
I also vouch for the laser being MW3 pulse lasers and pulse lasers being MW4 pulse lasers.
I have never liked the abrupt pin point laser in any circumstance... maybe a fully charged bombast laser could be like that, but other wise... bleh.

-Invictus ne Vindicetur-

KNIGHTS GRAND 5V5 TOURNAMENT THIS MARCH! More info below.
http://forum.mechlivinglegends.net/index.php/topic,16841.msg287300.html#msg287300

Offline (TLL) Heretic

  • Living Legend
  • *******
  • Posts: 2210
  • Karma: 117
Re: A suggestion for Lasers
« Reply #12 on: September 12, 2009, 01:59:02 PM »
1.5 seconds discharge does sound about right....on a standard large laser doing 8 points (or 80 or 800 depending on how the Devs have done fractional damage) then that's 1 point of damage for every 0.2ish seconds you touch a hit-box with the beam.

I'd be happy for all beam lasers to have their damage over that time frame, anything that makes them less like the noobesque MW4 beam lasers and more like MW2 lasers is good in my book.

And it doesn't have to interfere with any set recycle rate, just spreads the damage over the duration of the capacitors discharge and have the recycle kicking in from the moment you hit the fire button as usual.  Would add a little bit more skill in using your beam lasers with the enemy reacting to block or spread the damage.

A lot can happen in 1.5 seconds  ;D


Pecuniam non olet
Quid enim saluis infamia nummis

"Make this game my way, because I HAVE A DISORDER!" - VictorMorson
".....show us on the doll where MWLL touched you bad." - KingLeer

Offline =KoS=Zeus

  • Star Colonel
  • ****
  • Posts: 1476
  • Karma: 69
  • Knight of the Inner Sphere
Re: A suggestion for Lasers
« Reply #13 on: September 13, 2009, 12:17:50 AM »
Not so much a fan of the MW4 style pulse lasers, I'd rather them fire a single, highly accurate pulse, much like MW4 standard and ER Lasers, and then have a long recharge time.

The fact that somehow the CBT pulse laser was both highly accurate in hitting single locations, but also functions well against infantry because it fired multiple pulses, never really worked in my mind.

Yes, most of us agree that firing multiple shots increases accuracy, but shouldn't it also inflict more damage for each shot that hits? Do said shots spread across multiple locations? I'd have rather seen pulse lasers function like Babylon 5 Wars pulse weapons if this is how they supposedly function. The better accuracy you have, the more shots hit the target, inflicting more damage. In CBT terms, they'd function like this.

Pulse Lasers have apply a -2 to the target number to represent their greater accuracy. When you roll to hit, for every 2 you exceed the target number by, you land an extra pulse laser hit. Pulse lasers can land a maximum of 3 hits total, no matter how high you roll over the target number. Each pulse laser hit rolls a separate damage location.

IS Pulse Lasers
Small Pulse Laser: 2 heat, 2 damage per hit, range 1/2/3
Medium Pulse Laser: 4 heat, 3 damage per hit, range 2/4/6
Large Pulse laser: 10 heat, 5 damage per hit, range 3/6/10

Clan Pulse Laser
Small Pulse Laser: 2 heat, 2 damage per hit, range 2/4/6
Medium Pulse Laser: 4 heat, 4 damage per hit, range 4/8/12
Large Pulse laser: 10 heat, 5 damage per hit, range 6/14/20

The average damage for the weapons (i.e. hitting with 2 pulses, is equivalent to the normal weapon's damage, albeit, spread across multiple locations.)

This gives the weapon the machine gun effect, gives it accuracy bonuses, and rewards people for not just spraying and praying by enabling you to land additional hits, potentially in one location.

Offline Flyingdebris

  • Bushy B is my homeboy
  • MWLL Contributor
  • Living Legend
  • *
  • Posts: 2396
  • Karma: 135
Re: A suggestion for Lasers
« Reply #14 on: September 13, 2009, 03:23:02 AM »
pulse lasers are strobe lights in laser form.  Thats pretty much it.  Real life versions however blink in the nano scale in terms of speed, so i wouldn't expect to see a visible blink.  but thats really the only difference between regular lasers and the pulse variety.
Wherever mechs are needed, I am there