[Balancing] Elemental Town in Battlespace

[KingLeerUK]

When I'm running as a BA, the biggest thing I fear are (in this order):

1. facing 2 opponents
2. other BA
3. 'Mech flamers
4. LBX weapons
5. MGs and RACs
6. PPCs (splash)

As has been mentioned, you can't rebalance a game around lag, especially at this early stage.  I stand by my advice about safety in numbers and using team tactics to offset the speed/agility/size of BA antagonists.  When I'm running as a BA, I usually die when more than 1 opponent decides I need to be taken out.  One-on-one against most 'Mechs, I'll be able to survive for a while so long as the loadout of the 'Mech is in my favour.  As soon as I have to keep track of 2 enemies I'm inevitably going to turn my back at the wrong time or run out of JJ at an inopportune moment, usually resulting in me turning into a fine red mist.

All of the above said, I believe that BA are still not particularly fearsome for the damage they put out, it's how they can pinpoint it and dance out of the way when faced with a single (lumbering) foe.  The fox does really well against the bear, up until point where the bear has a buddy show up.

So, get a buddy to "help you with an itchy back" an you'll be OK and the BA will be dead.

[DeathYacht]

Dude, if you're having trouble with the BA's, just jump out of your mech and bring the beat down stick! ;-)

[=]FC[=Striker]

When I'm running as a BA, the biggest thing I fear are (in this order):

1. facing 2 opponents
2. other BA
3. 'Mech flamers
4. LBX weapons
5. MGs and RACs
6. PPCs (splash)

As has been mentioned, you can't rebalance a game around lag, especially at this early stage.  I stand by my advice about safety in numbers and using team tactics to offset the speed/agility/size of BA antagonists.  When I'm running as a BA, I usually die when more than 1 opponent decides I need to be taken out.  One-on-one against most 'Mechs, I'll be able to survive for a while so long as the loadout of the 'Mech is in my favour.  As soon as I have to keep track of 2 enemies I'm inevitably going to turn my back at the wrong time or run out of JJ at an inopportune moment, usually resulting in me turning into a fine red mist.

All of the above said, I believe that BA are still not particularly fearsome for the damage they put out, it's how they can pinpoint it and dance out of the way when faced with a single (lumbering) foe.  The fox does really well against the bear, up until point where the bear has a buddy show up.

So, get a buddy to "help you with an itchy back" an you'll be OK and the BA will be dead.

Perfect analogies there King. To add to this, TLL often has 3 peeps or more on a team that are working together. They fill multiple roles that create a devastating synergy. Aside from the synergy that is created, there is also excellent communication. It is common for me to hear one of our members shout that there is a BA on them and within 5 seconds that BA is more dead then the 3 Baltic Hookers that I carry around in my trunk.

Striker

[Stormin']

When I'm running as a BA, the biggest thing I fear are (in this order):

1. facing 2 opponents
2. other BA
3. 'Mech flamers
4. LBX weapons
5. MGs and RACs
6. PPCs (splash)

As has been mentioned, you can't rebalance a game around lag, especially at this early stage.  I stand by my advice about safety in numbers and using team tactics to offset the speed/agility/size of BA antagonists.  When I'm running as a BA, I usually die when more than 1 opponent decides I need to be taken out.  One-on-one against most 'Mechs, I'll be able to survive for a while so long as the loadout of the 'Mech is in my favour.  As soon as I have to keep track of 2 enemies I'm inevitably going to turn my back at the wrong time or run out of JJ at an inopportune moment, usually resulting in me turning into a fine red mist.

All of the above said, I believe that BA are still not particularly fearsome for the damage they put out, it's how they can pinpoint it and dance out of the way when faced with a single (lumbering) foe.  The fox does really well against the bear, up until point where the bear has a buddy show up.

So, get a buddy to "help you with an itchy back" an you'll be OK and the BA will be dead.

Perfect analogies there King. To add to this, TLL often has 3 peeps or more on a team that are working together. They fill multiple roles that create a devastating synergy. Aside from the synergy that is created, there is also excellent communication. It is common for me to hear one of our members shout that there is a BA on them and within 5 seconds that BA is more dead then the 3 Baltic Hookers that I carry around in my trunk.

Striker

Right.  And so now you have 3 teammates on voice chat creating 5-second synergy to deal with the lowest level free asset in the game.  Sounds like the BA performed his role well, particularly so when you see little to no reward for the kill and risk demotion and loss of c-bills for friendly fire.

[~SJ~ Griffin]

so i was about to post on here about how i agree that BA are OP and really annoying till today. When i played today i really began to try out different ways of killing those pesky things and ended getting the most kills on the server by far. Although BAs can be very tough and annoying, especially on Extremity, i find that PPCs and Flamers work wonders. In an Awesome C Variant you can easily snipe BA or in a Madcat C Variant (I think, its the one with LBXs and Flamers) you can run them down and toast em  . If you want cheaper alternatives try the Raven variant with the PPC. With this type of weaponry and careful aiming BA are turned to dust.

[johnflenaly]

When I'm running as a BA, the biggest thing I fear are (in this order):

1. facing 2 opponents
2. other BA
3. 'Mech flamers
4. LBX weapons
5. MGs and RACs
6. PPCs (splash)

As has been mentioned, you can't rebalance a game around lag, especially at this early stage.  I stand by my advice about safety in numbers and using team tactics to offset the speed/agility/size of BA antagonists.  When I'm running as a BA, I usually die when more than 1 opponent decides I need to be taken out.  One-on-one against most 'Mechs, I'll be able to survive for a while so long as the loadout of the 'Mech is in my favour.  As soon as I have to keep track of 2 enemies I'm inevitably going to turn my back at the wrong time or run out of JJ at an inopportune moment, usually resulting in me turning into a fine red mist.

All of the above said, I believe that BA are still not particularly fearsome for the damage they put out, it's how they can pinpoint it and dance out of the way when faced with a single (lumbering) foe.  The fox does really well against the bear, up until point where the bear has a buddy show up.

So, get a buddy to "help you with an itchy back" an you'll be OK and the BA will be dead.

Perfect analogies there King. To add to this, TLL often has 3 peeps or more on a team that are working together. They fill multiple roles that create a devastating synergy. Aside from the synergy that is created, there is also excellent communication. It is common for me to hear one of our members shout that there is a BA on them and within 5 seconds that BA is more dead then the 3 Baltic Hookers that I carry around in my trunk.

Striker

I can vouch for them using this tactic and its a pain in the arse

[=]FC[=Striker]

Stuff

Stuff

Right.  And so now you have 3 teammates on voice chat creating 5-second synergy to deal with the lowest level free asset in the game.  Sounds like the BA performed his role well, particularly so when you see little to no reward for the kill and risk demotion and loss of c-bills for friendly fire.

Was this you agreeing that BA is actually very little threat specifically in a game where there is actual teamwork happening? And the BA in the situation I described is actually something that breaks the synergy the players had going, but the point was that a BA can't do much of anything in the 5 seconds that it serves as a distraction, and that while the BA poses little threat before it gets stomped, TLL will not ignore a BA and give it the opportunity to be effective. If others don't play like that then it is their problem, and not one that needs to be addressed in a nerf to the BA asset. In fact, everyone attack BA so much that they have to boost them up, then I can really do some damage as a BA when I am ignored.

Striker

[Felix]

I can attest to the fact that if ignored BA can DEVI STATE!

I really love the heavy mechs who ignore me, such as a Timber Wolf or Catapult, i just love running up under em with an AC8 and loaded down with C8, their groin makes a perfect spot to latch C8 charges

[Stormin']

Stuff

Stuff

Right.  And so now you have 3 teammates on voice chat creating 5-second synergy to deal with the lowest level free asset in the game.  Sounds like the BA performed his role well, particularly so when you see little to no reward for the kill and risk demotion and loss of c-bills for friendly fire.

Was this you agreeing that BA is actually very little threat specifically in a game where there is actual teamwork happening? And the BA in the situation I described is actually something that breaks the synergy the players had going, but the point was that a BA can't do much of anything in the 5 seconds that it serves as a distraction, and that while the BA poses little threat before it gets stomped, TLL will not ignore a BA and give it the opportunity to be effective. If others don't play like that then it is their problem, and not one that needs to be addressed in a nerf to the BA asset. In fact, everyone attack BA so much that they have to boost them up, then I can really do some damage as a BA when I am ignored.

Striker

No, that was me disagreeing with you.  A free gimme 1-ton asset should not REQUIRE coordination between multiple higher-tonnage units to address by design.  I am not arguing the benefits of teamplay, and that is a silly comparison.  Teamplay always wins in BT/MW, regardless of the situation.  I'm talking balancing (and NOT nerfing) the role, and from what I've seen in this and other threads, a number of people tend to see it as a problem.

If you wish to argue it further, I suggest the other testers' thread in which you have already posted regarding this issue.

[Serafina]

BAs operate in units of 5 canonically.

A BA-player, even a good one, should not be equal to heavier mechs (heavy/assault), unless they have very limited weaponery (missileboats).

BAs should be a specialised niche - there are all kinds of mechs and vehicles and different aeros, but only a single kind  of BA.
So, they should be the counter to light mechs&vehicles and against long-range mechs&vehicles.

Even then, they should require teamwork - one BA for distraction, one to go in on the enemy.

I have no particular balancing ideas (other  than those already posted by me and some others), but thats how i would like it.

[Felix]

there are a few people with a problem with BA, but 100+ who play the servers daily who just kill the thigns and move on, the worst thing a team can do is nerf an asset because a few people cry loudly that it needs to be smacked with the nerf bat when everyone else knows how to deal wit hthem effectivly.

And no cannonly a Elemental doesn't just counter light mechs, they jump onto EVERY class of mech and are just as much of a threat as even light mechs, as they can peal back armor, shoot their small weapons directly into the interiors of a mech, or can jump onto the cockpit and PUNCH through the canopy to kill the pilot with leaving the mech intact.

So liek i said before, if you want to nerf them give them the ability to destroy weapons/ammo/fusion reactor/pilot without having to deal with the armor while they are close in with their claw.

Edit: you could also coordinate with other 1 ton assets (other BA) and have them hanging around your mech or friendly mechs to deal with enemy BA, i have seen lots of players doing this and it has worked well. I cant count the number of times i have gone after an enemy heavy mech only to be swatted by an anti infantry spec battle armor troop just waiting for me.

[johnflenaly]

For all the people crying fool, what in heavens are you gonna do when BA get the use of the claw back. Think you have a problem now wait untill I'm hanging off you back plinking away with my small laser. Then maybe you will understand that you need backup to deal with BA.

[DeathYacht]

Really I don't have many problems with BA, I think it's cool when one actually manages to waste me.  If one is really pissing me off, I just climb out of my Mech with my anti-infantry loadout (like John says) and take care of business.  You have plenty of time to power down before they do much damage and that way your mech stays locked.  Teach the little flea a lesson on respect, then get back to your ride!  ;-)

[Defender]

For those complaining about "canon", remember that in Canon BT there are alot more than 32 player units being fielded at any given time so the fact that servers only hold a limited amount of players each unit has to be balanced accordingly to adjust to the scale of the game. This isn't a boardgame or a sourcebook. Limitations = Balance

[Cosmitz]

I really don't see what the fuss is. I really don't. They might be just a tad annoying, but they are very fun to play. And as for counters, while not really canon, it's a simple matter of ejecting, killing 1-2 BA's one on one while gliding down from the jet, and then getting back in your mech. I've done this more times then i can count, and short of two occurances when i forgot where i parked my mech, and once when i died doing said act, it was all fine.