The old topic was 24 pages, Please...do not nerf BAs.

[Uranium - 235]

the man pack ppc being so useful is precisely why i think energy weapons should drink from the jumpjet juice bar when they fire, and have the manpack take the most.

I think most of the ba problems will not be such an issue when mech handling gets improved

And like I said, the jetpack is VERY limited right now, taking what feels like an ETERNITY to recharge, not to mention a recharge delay that's about as long as the amount of burn energy it has when it's full. A BA on the ground is a dead BA, so killing their maneuverability even more will completely break them.

I'm also opposed to limited ammo because BA just aren't quick enough, returning to base would be a DRAG. If BA had some sort of 'cruise engine' or faster way to get around... In Tribes you could ski and get anywhere quickly, turning jetpack energy into lateral movement with terrain. In Tribes you also had portable inventory stations, but MW:LL isn't infantry-centric enough to be able to pull that off.

[=Outlaw=]

The devs want to implement APCs some how and I think making them act as a way to restock on BA ammo in the field would perfect way to do it. Maybe also allow BAs to switch out weapons inside APCs. If they are going to reduce or eliminate the auto heal, they could also heal BAs. Plus it acts as another way to transport BAs around the map. It gives players who are hard up on wanting to play as a support vehicle something worth while to do. Though I would see it mainly being used as a (cheap) way to initially get to the battle, then being set up in safe place to give your team's BAs somewhere to fall back and recuperate.
Kinda like a mini BA base.
It would act similar to the AMS in planetside (except you can't spawn from it).

[Alexander]

In Tribes you could ski and get anywhere quickly, turning jetpack energy into lateral movement with terrain. In Tribes you also had portable inventory stations, but MW:LL isn't infantry-centric enough to be able to pull that off.

Not that you play Tribes or anything.

[Uranium - 235]

The devs want to implement APCs some how and I think making them act as a way to restock on BA ammo in the field would perfect way to do it. Maybe also allow BAs to switch out weapons inside APCs. If they are going to reduce or eliminate the auto heal, they could also heal BAs. Plus it acts as another way to transport BAs around the map. It gives players who are hard up on wanting to play as a support vehicle something worth while to do. Though I would see it mainly being used as a (cheap) way to initially get to the battle, then being set up in safe place to give your team's BAs somewhere to fall back and recuperate.
Kinda like a mini BA base.
It would act similar to the AMS in planetside (except you can't spawn from it).

Well the advantage of BA is stealthiness and immunity to the idiocy of missile spam.

An APC would totally negate both of those.

[Flyingdebris]

a ba on the ground is a dead ba, exactly.    you make the player have to choose between maneuverability and firepower, just like everyone else. 

BA should have to be sneaky and ambushy.  Not what we have now where they can openly harass people out in the open, being shot at by multiple people, taking numerous laser glances, being nailed by lbx shots and srm spams, and not dying.  If they want to flit around, avoiding getting hit, fine and dandy, but if you want to fight, you should have to deal with ammo and energy, its only fair. 

[Kodiak Ash]

I played Tribes and Tribes 2 forever and know what the biggest difference is?

Lag.

While there's lag, it doesn't matter if you connect every hit on a tiny elemental.  If the server doesn't register it a hit because you can't see where they really were it doesn't matter.  Right now the most popular servers are the 32 player servers, and I've seen Devs come on and explain the game is best played on 24-28 man servers so I tested it and they are 100% right.  I went and played on a 24 person server (TLL - NY) and man it is brutal playing as an Elemental with accurate fire.

I'm glad so far that the devs seem to realize this and haven't made any knee-jerk reactions to nerfing BAs and in fact seem to be going in the opposite direction.

[Manfromx]

So to try and give this thread some clarity.... Where is the real problem?

It sounds like the two main points thus far are (and the yes exactly, or, no quit dreaming, sides of the arguments)

BA's are too powerful

BA's are too plentiful since everyone can eject as one


It's probably a mix of the two to some degree. I know people out there think it's fine and we should just suck it up and shoot them and stop whining. It's not a question of ability as much as it is about fun. You may be the type of person that thinks the tougher the challenge the more the fun. I'd agree with that for the most part. We're all here because the game challenges us.

The real question remains though.
Is there a way to have the BA as a challenging opponent that isn't aggravating and conversely a way to play as the BA that's challenging but still survivable enough to be fun.
(my belief is yes and yes and we're not too far from it)
If the Devs are really going to flesh out the BA's as more of a class instead of just default for everyone. I think that's a good step from the BA perspective. Even fighting different BA types should prove more fun.

Oh and on the previous posts about BA's having to be stealthy. I agree that that is certainly an area that could be expanded upon. BA's are hard to spot when they haven't just popped out of a mech. When a BA isn't jump jetting all over he can be quite sneaky. Some maps this can be hard though (desert and tundra come to mind). Maybe some Camo would help that .

[Uranium - 235]

Well, BAs are supposed to be extremely difficult for a single slow mech to fight, so in that case of course they should be aggravating

[Manfromx]

Agreed, but not so aggravating that only one is something you need to worry about right "now"
If there is more and you're alone then it may be time to crap yourself

[=Outlaw=]

The devs want to implement APCs some how and I think making them act as a way to restock on BA ammo in the field would perfect way to do it. Maybe also allow BAs to switch out weapons inside APCs. If they are going to reduce or eliminate the auto heal, they could also heal BAs. Plus it acts as another way to transport BAs around the map. It gives players who are hard up on wanting to play as a support vehicle something worth while to do. Though I would see it mainly being used as a (cheap) way to initially get to the battle, then being set up in safe place to give your team's BAs somewhere to fall back and recuperate.
Kinda like a mini BA base.
It would act similar to the AMS in planetside (except you can't spawn from it).

Well the advantage of BA is stealthiness and immunity to the idiocy of missile spam.

An APC would totally negate both of those.

You wouldn't ride an APC into the middle of a fire fight.  Nor park it right next the frontline and hope it'll be ok when you get back. If an APC driver sees an enemy, hes doing it wrong.

[Mekabuser=12thVR=]

the man pack ppc being so useful is precisely why i think energy weapons should drink from the jumpjet juice bar when they fire, and have the manpack take the most.

I think most of the ba problems will not be such an issue when mech handling gets improved

I am glad someone mentioned the handling. I have been taking mechs just so I can learn how to drive these things, and I am still having a very hard time. I would say when I am in a mech I have like a third, or less of the mojo I used to in mw4/ Actually much less.
Yet still I can kill ba.  Because unless your ready to pop , there is no reason to not kill ba. You take your time, aim , and shoot. I can t believe anyone that was good in other mech games cant do this. I refuse to believe it. BA take a damn long time to kill u and at the least most mechs can outrun a ba.

Give me a functioning joystick , or 20 more hours of learning how to do this with a mouse and actually learning these mech characteristics and i wouldnt care how many ba I take on.

I think there might also be a lot of pilots out there like me. Being a BA is relatively easy, fun and awesome, and most guys are 80,90% of their potential in ba already. Mechs maybe30,40,50% potential, and aero, well I cant do diddly in one after 90min of trying.

BA obviously work , I dont think ive ever been killed by one whlle i was in a mech, Ive killed a few mechs, in em, but not alot, the ba v ba fights are excellent. I think everything in the mod has the right amount of power, with the exception of the mechs, but for me thats a control issue.

[~SJ~ Tajin Nevversan]

BA should have to be sneaky and ambushy

Uhm yeah, that doesn't 100% work in an bulky battlearmor while holding a glowing gun in your hands and leaving smoketrails + plasmaflames whenever you jump.
Also, if you do sneak around, most of the enemy mechs will simly outrun you. Even when fighting an atlas you'll need all the jj-power you can get. Not only do you have to jump after him when he's moving (if you get too far away, you're toast) you also need the JJs to avoid his shots.


What some people here forget is that most of the problems you have with killing BAs occur when they manage to get close to you. In that case it gets tricky, but thats perfectly fine. It is your fault if you let em get too close but still, if you have any teammates around, they can take a few steps backwards and take the BAs out while they attack you.

What I'm trying to say is, it gets alot easier to take out BAs, when you're firing from a distance. Sure they're damn small targets and the distance makes them even smaller but thats not much of an problem really. The point is that on a distance they can jump and doge around as much as they want, all you have to do is move your mouse slightly and pull the trigger.


I've spent quite some time in a vulture today and when there were no mechs around, I started scanning the horizon for those little moving dots. Believe it or not but sniping BAs from afar with gaussrifles works pretty well, even thoug Gauss is not exactly the best weapon for that. Use a couple of lasers instead and it'll be childs play. Spotting them isn't hard either, so reducing their maneuverability in any way will make them sitting ducks.

[Manfromx]

That's pretty slick to hit BA's with Gauss at distance.

Good advice though. I hope no one here is actually making the case BA's are crazy imbalanced. I haven't heard that yet anyway. Some of the changes people want may be a big extreme at the moment. Limited ammo is one. Good idea, but without any sort of way to rearm short of going back to base (which is only worse in an Atlas than a BA is) it's a non-starter I'd say for now.

Like I said above.

Is the real problem they are too tough or that they are too frequent. It seems to me if there are less BA's (or less BA's of the current type) ejecting this problem mostly goes away.

I know some don't see any problem whatsoever though.

I guess I just feel the focus on this game is vehicular combat and the feeling of being a bad ass little elemental around lumbering giants is heightened in an enviroment where you're unique.

[Flyingdebris]

well its kinda hard to claim its someone's fault for letting BA sneak up on them, especially since they don't show up on radar till you are tripping over them, and more than half of the encountered BA are close range vehicle bails.

another thing.  one of the things that are so annoying about BA is that unless your vehicle name ends in "arasser" or is a mech in the light category, you have no way in hell to break off a fight with them.  And if you made the choice of having a poor anti BA loadout, you are unequivocally screwed.  I know this because i have dogged loners relentlessly as BA myself, and sailed through barrages of lasers and ACs without dying, when i certainly should have.   If you let attrition affect BA like it affects everyone else, it may make rearming a pain in the ass, but its not that much more a pain than rearming a heavy or assault mech.  and it keeps them from dogging a target forever until they die or return to base.

[Manfromx]

well its kinda hard to claim its someone's fault for letting BA sneak up on them, especially since they don't show up on radar till you are tripping over them, and more than half of the encountered BA are close range vehicle bails.

another thing.  one of the things that are so annoying about BA is that unless your vehicle name ends in "arasser" or is a mech in the light category, you have no way in hell to break off a fight with them.  And if you made the choice of having a poor anti BA loadout, you are unequivocally screwed.  I know this because i have dogged loners relentlessly as BA myself, and sailed through barrages of lasers and ACs without dying, when i certainly should have.   If you let attrition affect BA like it affects everyone else, it may make rearming a pain in the ass, but its not that much more a pain than rearming a heavy or assault mech.  and it keeps them from dogging a target forever until they die or return to base.

Yah that is a good point about them being able to dog a target forever. I suppose that only happens if you seperated yourself from the group though. Or all your teammates just died and you should be getting out of there.

The only way I could see ammo limitation working on a BA and not gimping them too much is by letting them refill ammo when near a friendly mech or something.

Reason I say that is because the ammo someone mentioned is like 6 for the SRM2's.

Hmm I'm kinda on the fence really. I suppose it would influence BA's to work together more. If there could be a support class BA that could give out ammo then I think you have a winner .