Ace Combat: Living Legends

[Uranium - 235]

Really getting tired of this. The game seems to consist of 15% mechs, 15% vehicles, 15% BA, and 55% ASFs.

Missiles are retarded and utterly worthless against them. All the pilot has to do is pull a modest 2G turn and the missiles will completely miss. This is worse than MW3's missile system, which I thought we were trying to avoid... in addition, they have respectable amounts of armor, so even if you do lay down a stream of fire and actually manage to hit them, your odds of killing them is very low.

If an ASF is heading in any direction except perpendicular with evasive maneuvers, missiles should NEVER miss. Instead I watch as my missiles go UNDER it, and then it drops bombs on me and blows off my legs. If an ASF takes a PPC, it should be crippled, if not completely destroyed. Instead it just orbits around 4 miles in the air above my head where I can't even see it.

In a 45 minute game, the ASF whores on the other team had about six deaths between them, most of which were when they just suicide crashed into our mech hangar at the beginning of the game.

The only thing that can pose any kind of threat to an ASF is a partisan tank, which the ASF can just blow up in a single salvo anyway. The vast majority of mechs have no weapons suited to defend against an ASF, not that it would matter because all the pilot has to do is fly straight up in the air above your mech and dive directly down. As I said, missiles are hilariously worthless against them, so the only mech I've found that can do SOME damage to them is the Hollander with all the AC2s. In order to actually cripple it you have to land a LOT of rounds, which is not feasible at all.

This is exactly like the Reaver problem of Planetside.

[KingLeerUK]

Just a thought, there are aerospace variants that are design to hunt other aerospace, Sulla Prime and Sulla A come to mind.

If your opponent is running the LRM, firebomb or T-Bolt aero variants they have absolutely no protection against hunter aerospace.

Try putting up a couple of your own team to counter the aerospace threat from the opposition, it works wonders.

Also, since the Arrow IVs have such a long tracking range they actually make excellent anti-air units, try the Arrow IV Huit and you'll see what I mean.

[Snuggles]

It's a beta. Once the lag shield is gone (hotfix coming in the near-ish future I hear) it'll be a bit easier to take out those pesky fliers.

[Uranium - 235]

It's a beta. Once the lag shield is gone (hotfix coming in the near-ish future I hear) it'll be a bit easier to take out those pesky fliers.

That's the other problem - actually getting a lock (futile as it is since even if you fire the missiles an inch away they'll manage to miss) is almost impossible due to the lock mechanic, lag, and terrain as well.

[Uranium - 235]

Just a thought, there are aerospace variants that are design to hunt other aerospace, Sulla Prime and Sulla A come to mind.

If your opponent is running the LRM, firebomb or T-Bolt aero variants they have absolutely no protection against hunter aerospace.

Try putting up a couple of your own team to counter the aerospace threat from the opposition, it works wonders.

Also, since the Arrow IVs have such a long tracking range they actually make excellent anti-air units, try the Arrow IV Huit and you'll see what I mean.

I don't think rock-paper-scissors balancing is an ideal solution, frankly. When you have to introduce a specialized unit specifically to destroy another, you're not actually fixing the original problem. Hell, a BA can destroy an Atlas - but we need a special anti-ASF ASF only to 'fix' the ASF balance problem? The ASF people are in ASFs because they want to be (because it's easy I assume). The mech people are in mechs because they want to be. Now I'm in an anti-ASF not because I want to be, but because I *have* to be? That's NOT good balance.

Something's got to give. ASFs need to lose serious amounts of something IMO - armor, firepower, maneuverability... right now they're like the sniper class of the game - the default choice if you never want to die and want to get easy kills.

[KingLeerUK]

Just a thought, there are aerospace variants that are design to hunt other aerospace, Sulla Prime and Sulla A come to mind.

If your opponent is running the LRM, firebomb or T-Bolt aero variants they have absolutely no protection against hunter aerospace.

Try putting up a couple of your own team to counter the aerospace threat from the opposition, it works wonders.

Also, since the Arrow IVs have such a long tracking range they actually make excellent anti-air units, try the Arrow IV Huit and you'll see what I mean.

I don't think rock-paper-scissors balancing is an ideal solution, frankly. When you have to introduce a specialized unit specifically to destroy another, you're not actually fixing the original problem. Hell, a BA can destroy an Atlas - but we need a special anti-ASF ASF only to 'fix' the ASF balance problem? The ASF people are in ASFs because they want to be (because it's easy I assume). The mech people are in mechs because they want to be. Now I'm in an anti-ASF not because I want to be, but because I *have* to be?

So, if I understand you correctly, you want every unit in the game to be on equal terms with every other unit type.

That is not the definition of combined arms and it isn't ever going to happen in MWLL.

In combined arms you field an array of units that compliment and support one another, and they are, by design, not necessarily interchangeable with one another.  Can an Uller A snipe aerospace out of the sky with its Gauss rifle?  Sure it can, but it's not intended for this role.  Similarly, the Sulla Prime is not an effective ground attack unit because it takes forever to do any real damage  given the small amount of contact time per-pass that its weapons have.

There seems to be this mentality of "well I'm in a 'Mech, I should walk the battlefield like a king, only having to worry about other 'Mechs, the rest of these vehicles should be garbage and not worthy of my attention".  As you have already figured out, this does not work.   Haven't put up a sufficient anti-air force?  You will get wrecked from the air.  Put all your eggs in the 'Mech basket?  Hawkmoths will eat you alive.  Decided to flip the coin on its head and run aerospace only?  Eventually the 'Mech and ground vehicle teams will reach your aerospace base and you will be camped into an oblivion, turrets notwithstanding.

It's like Pokemon, "gotta field 'em all!"  

Oh, and aerospace armour... it's like tin foil.  A single heavy guass round ends an 85 ton Shiva.  Unlike 'Mechs and vehicles, if an aeospace loses a wing they fall out of the sky.  Aerospace are quite delicate.  Use the RAC2 Partisan or the UAC2/UAC5 Huit, aeros pop pretty quick in in just a couple of passes, plus, you have a longer reach (in weapon ranges) than they do.  Use it.

[Mekabuser=12thVR=]

I dont understand why people dont get the concept just stated. In mercs if someone was GOOD in a light or medium they would RACK up the points and threaten the efforts of the other team. Solution? hop in a lt or med urself to either hunt n kill the other lt/med, rack up the same points to balance, or both. In all combined arms games its necessary to counter the threat that is kicking ur teams ass. In BF2142 it was the same with aero. I nvr had the time to learn aero killer, but Id hop in the top of the walker to at least make that aces life suck a lil bit.

[Uranium - 235]

Just a thought, there are aerospace variants that are design to hunt other aerospace, Sulla Prime and Sulla A come to mind.

If your opponent is running the LRM, firebomb or T-Bolt aero variants they have absolutely no protection against hunter aerospace.

Try putting up a couple of your own team to counter the aerospace threat from the opposition, it works wonders.

Also, since the Arrow IVs have such a long tracking range they actually make excellent anti-air units, try the Arrow IV Huit and you'll see what I mean.

I don't think rock-paper-scissors balancing is an ideal solution, frankly. When you have to introduce a specialized unit specifically to destroy another, you're not actually fixing the original problem. Hell, a BA can destroy an Atlas - but we need a special anti-ASF ASF only to 'fix' the ASF balance problem? The ASF people are in ASFs because they want to be (because it's easy I assume). The mech people are in mechs because they want to be. Now I'm in an anti-ASF not because I want to be, but because I *have* to be?

So, if I understand you correctly, you want every unit in the game to be on equal terms with every other unit type.

That is not the definition of combined arms and it isn't ever going to happen in MWLL.

In combined arms you field an array of units that compliment and support one another, and they are, by design, not necessarily interchangeable with one another.  Can an Uller A snipe aerospace out of the sky with its Gauss rifle?  Sure it can, but it's not intended for this role.  Similarly, the Sulla Prime is not an effective ground attack unit because it takes forever to do any real damage  given the small amount of contact time per-pass that its weapons have.

There seems to be this mentality of "well I'm in a 'Mech, I should walk the battlefield like a king, only having to worry about other 'Mechs, the rest of these vehicles should be garbage and not worthy of my attention".  As you have already figured out, this does not work.   Haven't put up a sufficient anti-air force?  You will get wrecked from the air.  Put all your eggs in the 'Mech basket?  Hawkmoths will eat you alive.  Decided to flip the coin on its head and run aerospace only?  Eventually the 'Mech and ground vehicle teams will reach your aerospace base and you will be camped into an oblivion, turrets notwithstanding.

It's like Pokemon, "gotta field 'em all!"  

Oh, and aerospace armour... it's like tin foil.  A single heavy guass round ends an 85 ton Shiva.  Unlike 'Mechs and vehicles, if an aeospace loses a wing they fall out of the sky.  Aerospace are quite delicate.  Use the RAC2 Partisan or the UAC2/UAC5 Huit, aeros pop pretty quick in in just a couple of passes, plus, you have a longer reach (in weapon ranges) than they do.  Use it.

By that logic, why aren't BAs completely mashed by mechs? Instead they can pose a serious threat without ridiculous leaps in skill required. Why? Because that's what the Battletech rules allow for - Elementals to be tiny little wolverines chewing through everything.

That's my point, everything EXCEPT ASFs all play together and there's nothing that is 'better' than another in the sense that you need a hard counter to defeat it.

This is Battletech, is it not? What are the Aerotech 2 rules for mech vs. ASF combat? I highly doubt they say 'Are immune to missiles' and 'no mech can pose a serious threat'.

I dont understand why people dont get the concept just stated. In mercs if someone was GOOD in a light or medium they would RACK up the points and threaten the efforts of the other team. Solution? hop in a lt or med urself to either hunt n kill the other lt/med, rack up the same points to balance, or both. In all combined arms games its necessary to counter the threat that is kicking ur teams ass. In BF2142 it was the same with aero. I nvr had the time to learn aero killer, but Id hop in the top of the walker to at least make that aces life suck a lil bit.

In BF2142 there were tons of AA available. Every flag had AA turrets around it, and barring that you had man-portable AA. In addition, the AT missile weapons would work in a pinch, or hell, even just small arms fire to do damage. You had the upper turret for walkers, tanks and buggies at least had the little machine gun that would deter gunships from hanging around. And even the direct-fire weapons weren't impossible to use against them. A tank shot would knock them out, even the mortar on the APCs could blow them up if they flew low enough.

Gunships were lethal in 2142 in EXTREMELY CAPABLE HANDS. Otherwise they were just another vehicle. There really wasn't this invisible barrier that made them magically immune to most other weapons in the game and suddenly required a huge change in how you play to deal with them. Hell even LAND MINES would blow up gunships. I would even go so far as to say that gunship controls and such were far harder to use than the rather simplistic ones we have here in MWLL.

Furthermore, in order for gunships to bring their most powerful weapon to bear, you required two people in them which is a great balancing facet as well.

[~SJ~ Karuik]

dear lord people! at the rate this is going im making a game over what people will claim is overpowered next!

all this can be solved with a simple few words LERN TWO SHEWT PLAIN! its not as hard as people seem to think... once in a blue moon when im not in an aero i dont have many issues killing the other flyboys from the ground personally...

if your teams not smart enough to bring some AA they deserve to get the shit bombed out of them, its a problem easily solved. hell its not even a problem

[KingLeerUK]

By that logic, why aren't BAs completely mashed by mechs? Instead they can pose a serious threat without ridiculous leaps in skill required. Why? Because that's what the Battletech rules allow for - Elementals to be tiny little wolverines chewing through everything.

That's my point, everything EXCEPT ASFs all play together and there's nothing that is 'better' than another in the sense that you need a hard counter to defeat it.

This is Battletech, is it not? What are the Aerotech 2 rules for mech vs. ASF combat? I highly doubt they say 'Are immune to missiles' and 'no mech can pose a serious threat'.

And as much as I am loath to fall back on it, this is BETA 1 and not all of the assets are in and there have been a number of balance issues discovered.  You can sleep soundly at night knowing that the DEV team has taken in the many thousands of posts received thus far and is developing not only a plan to address them, but to introduce additional assets and gameplay elements that will offset or compliment what is currently being perceived as imbalanced and incomplete.  Right now we have exactly 2 aerospace units and 1 VTOL in place.  I know that we have at least 4 other aerospace waiting for final polish (Sparrowhawk, Corsair, Xerxes and Visigoth) and once those are in it will give aerospace pilots even more options for air-to-air battling.  The Sparrowhawk in particular is small, fast as hell, and hunts other aerospace with a vengeance.

I have made my personal position known with regard to BA here.

All of the above said, I think that aerospace are pretty well balanced for what they are right now, simply because the appropriate counters (i.e. other aerospace and AA units) are already present.  Will things be improved as lag is conquered and players adjust to the requirements of the game?  Sure.  But I don't think that aerospace are the ultimate terror that you make them out to be.

[Alexander]

Just get your ass in a Huit B.

Problem solved :3

[(TLL)Highlander]

Or anything with a gauss rifle. As KingLeer said, one of those slugs will bring down anything currently in the air. Not to mention almost any other unit can shoot down an aero. I really don't get where people are fabricating these problems from. I was in a Shiva on Sandblast and was looking at the respawn screen in one pass because the ground forces actually shot back at me.

[wonderboy2402]

A big part of MWLL is that it is a sandbox scenario with combined arms.  You can play whatever roll you want, but often times you need to switch to another vehicle type to handle exactly what is bothering you.

I LOVE areospace, i generally average 5 kills - 5 deaths. The Sulla prime is alot of fun to fly but only great against VTOLs and other aerospace. When I get enough to run the Firebomb variant or a Shiva then I can start doing bombing runs which are time consuming and not always kills as landing the bombs can be a challenge. But you know, as soon as one enemy starts harassing me in a Sulla and fielding more AA guns... I have to either switch to a faster lighter craft or go a mech.  And aircraft are tinfoil to alot of weapons. You can strafe an enemy Raven three... for times and launch your SRM and only get it to yellow.  Then one lucky blast takes a wing off or you make a wrong turn and splash into a moutainside... you don't live long as aerospace.  You can kill enemies fast and you can DIE fast.

BattleArmor are ment to be tenacious little infantry units that harass and take apart a larger mech. Usually done in groups.  And in the cannon, it took alot of effort to get a BA off a mech unit, usually requiring drastic measures including have friendly units BLAST your own armor to clear them off. They are fine and add depth to the battlefield... where normal infantry would be vaporized or stomped over.  If you pick a unit that as no effective anti-BA gear then you have to work with others if one starts harassing you... Or bail out and take the fight to the guy harassing you.

I am very happy to hear that more is still to come with aerospace units. Because to me it is one of the best aspects of game, of course it is second to finally having a mech game out there again.

[Masakari]

Someone sounds mad that they cant kill flyboys

[blakrhino]

every unit that is a threat to your unit of choice in every game ever is overpowered.

or at least thats how a lot of people seem to see it.