Honestly, I don't *want* a mechlab.

[Uranium - 235]

MW:LL has some of the most interesting and varied gameplay to have ever been seen in a Mechwarrior game to date, and I believe this can be completely pinned on the absence of a Mechlab. Most of the variants are well-used and everyone has their own personal favorites, nothing really stands out as the 'best' (though there are some that need work IMO, esp. the Awesome variants). To be completely frank, I would be very receptive to more variants, but not an overall mechlab, because that would bring back the original problems with all multiplayer Mechwarriors to date - boating.

Right now boating is limited to a couple variants (notably missiles boats), so you hardly see them. I honestly think it would be a negative influence on the game to suddenly allow people to roll around with LBX boats just running up to try to one-shot someone, or heavy overuse of laser boats on extremity, etc.

While I won't completely write off the mechlab right now, I really don't want to see MW:LL lose the charm that it does have in the sense that everyone's playing with a 'real' mech and mastering all your weapons is part of the skill, instead of what I can see happening, going back to MW3 days where you just slap 9 LBLs on a Mad Cat and try to leg enemies in one shot.

I wouldn't mind the 4 variants available for each mech having additionally three 'sub' variants, where one focuses on a better engine, one focuses on better firepower, and one focuses on better armor. Maybe a fourth for better 'utilities' (C3, Jump Jets for a Mad Dog, etc.). Give people the options they could want and achieve WITH a mech lab, but remove their ability to 'ruin' the game with the total customization that a mechlab brings.

[Serafina]

Well, if anything, you should be able to disallow the Mechlab on your Server, IF the Devs see these concerns as valid.

I do not - mixed weaponery is already pretty damn usefull. "Boats" of all kinds will (or do) have trouble against certain enemies:
Missile-Boats are already defenseless at short range, laser-boats have massive heat-problems, and pure ballistic loadouts will chew trough ammo pretty fast and have weaknesses against certain enemies (depending on the weapons used).

As long as all weapons have their use and are not over-powered, i do not see why a mechlab would be a bad thing.

[Alendor]

aside from the whole hardpoint method they are using limiting boating, with the inclusion of aero, tanks, and BAs, boating won't be as effective.  for example, the 9 LBL madcat requires that your rape its engine down to assault mech speeds, and strips tons of armor from it.  that'll make it very easy prey for BAs, and arty.

[Mekabuser=12thVR=]

thats fine but ill tell you something that i want. I want the weapons groups that I arrange to remain the same the next time I use a particular mech. That is somewhat annoying having to take the time to reconfigure every spawn. Secondly a mechlab would be nice in as much as one can "SEE " every varient and see where the weapon fire is coming from so that the groups can be tailored to your needs. I am fairly particular but a basic philosophy I used to have was either long range /short range/ alpha, or Left / right alpha. just my two cents.

[(TLL)Sky_walker]

eh... yet another weird topic made by Uranium?

but remove their ability to 'ruin' the game with the total customization that a mechlab brings.

That's the biggest nonsense I've heard since registering on this forum. And since when mechlab RUINS the game? It's what brings most FUN to it. How can you talk about ruining and lack of balance in a thing that haven't been released, not even well-previewed yet? Believe me or not - the devs are not idiots and they know that balance is important thing.
MW4 had mechlab and yet... many people find it to be the best game of the series - how's that possible?
Duh... this topic is pointless.

[Zurechial]

Boating would be less of an issue with a MechLab if the scoring system were adjusted to encourage people to stay alive instead of wading into the battlefield (with an LBX-boat or whatever) and gunning it straight for the nearest vulnerable enemy, regardless of other threats; knowing that they can respawn.

If a MechLab were added right now, someone could load up on LBXes and charge the nearest enemy unit, score a kill, die and run straight back out to do it again.
If the player is encouraged to approach enemies cautiously so that they stay alive and do prolonged damage because they care about surviving instead of just scoring kills, then that wouldn't be an issue, I think.

I don't have any ideas for quite how to accomplish that change, though. Harsh penalties for dying would make it difficult to gain rank in a game-in-progress as well as making it very tough for newer or less-skilled players; but I'm sure someone could devise an alternative.

[Uranium - 235]

eh... yet another weird topic made by Uranium?

Deal with it, I'm not here to please you.

That's the biggest nonsense I've heard since registering on this forum. And since when mechlab RUINS the game? It's what brings most FUN to it.

GOOD GAMEPLAY EQUATES TO FUN

FUN DOES NOT EQUATE TO GOOD GAMEPLAY

With the Mechlab in place, they may as well just delete all the preset mech variants. Right now they're most all well-balanced. You pick a tradeoff of what you want your mech to do to what it CAN do. Do you honestly think anyone's ever going to take an Inner Sphere light mech once the Mechlab is available? All these predesigned variants are going to be pretty much obsolete, as NOBODY uses stock loadouts anyway. There's always ways you can min-max your mech, which is precisely what the mechlab allows you to do. When two identical mechs meet, it's a contest of skill. When they meet with a mechlab, it'll be whoever did the most research into damage-per-second outputs and which weapons are 0.5% better than another.

I don't see that as good gameplay.

I agree, the mechlab is a good part of Mechwarrior - but I think that's something that should stay with singleplayer. I guarantee you that with a mechlab you'll see a dramatic change in how the game plays (not to mention MASSIVE drops in the action, as people stand in base fapping around for 30 minutes). I can also practically guarantee you that you'll see a lot of weapons fall to complete disuse as there's always something you can replace it with. IS Streak SRMs? Get the fapp out.

MW4 had mechlab and yet... many people find it to be the best game of the series - how's that possible?

The *only thing* MW4 did right were the hardpoint limits. The entire game was incredibly dumbed-down, missing half the equipment of MW3, and balance was completely fapped as even light mechs could take ridiculous amounts of damage. I refuse to believe 'many people' find that to be the best. Maybe the fact that MW3 barely works on an XP machine has something to do with that. Maybe you should go try MW3 again, and tell me what happens the first time you hear "Critical Hit!" and realize your gyro was just destroyed.


There's been many a time during gameplay where I've said 'Man I wish I could drop those machine guns for a better engine', or 'Why the hell doesn't the Mad Dog have jump jets!', and that's why I propose a LOT more pre-made variants that come with bigger engines, more armor (similar to how MechCommander came with A, W, and J variants) etc. But I simply don't think a Mechlab would make for better gameplay at all. The absence of user customization would make balancing this game a much easier process as well. If a certain configuration is seen as becoming a dominant force on the battlefield and its use vastly outweighs all others, you can simply change THAT VARIANT, and not be forced to rebalance every other mech using those weapons, etc.

[~SJ~MausGMR]

I do agree with Uranium actually, but im confident that the dev's hardpoint system will take away most of the problems (hopefully fingers crossed).

[Albain]

Ummmm, noooooo.

The only thing as fun as piloting a mech is designing your own.

[Uranium - 235]

Ummmm, noooooo.

The only thing as fun as piloting a mech is designing your own.

I wonder if people actually bother reading threads and considering the points offered or just see 'THAT IS SOMETHING I FEEL I INSTANTLY DISAGREE WITH FOR NO VALID REASON SO LOL NO'.

The only real advantage a mechlab offers is that it's "fun" for you as a player to fapp around with it.

There is nothing there that is beneficial to the pace of the game, balance, or gameplay in general. With expanded variants to cover enhanced weaponry, armor, speed, and utility, you should be able to cover all the gaps in mech options that a mechlab would fill.

[Albain]

Uranium you ASSume a ton of stuff in your post, like having to design your mech in your base at the start of the game. Not having a balancing system like Mech 4 did.

Relax and stop bitching about stuff that is not even implemented yet, especially since you do not know how it will be implemented.

[=KoS= Eldragon]

I really hope the Devs do have a "Stock Mech Only" server option. But I don't intend to ever play on one. In the early stages of the Mechlab Beta, there is going to be some combination that is overpowered. That's inevitable. Its also the whole point of testing. So maybe XYZ combo is so grossly overpowered some server admins plan on running Stock only for a time until a fix comes along. That is going to happen.

Unlike every Mech game ever made, this one gives you a reason to use a variety of weapons. In prior games, it was a simple Damage, Mass, Heat equation. Remember the Medium Laser boats?

Now you throw Aerospace, Battle Armor, Artillery, and Tanks in the mix. You need a variety of weapons to create the "perfect" mech.

Back in the day, with other Mech games, I thought the 3 ERPPC, LPL Awesome was stupid. "Who wants that lone LPL? What good is it? Why not just add heatsinks instead." Now I love that lone LPL for shooting Battle Armor and other fast moving annoying targets.

[Uranium - 235]

Uranium you ASSume a ton of stuff in your post, like having to design your mech in your base at the start of the game. Not having a balancing system like Mech 4 did.

Relax and stop bitching about stuff that is not even implemented yet, especially since you do not know how it will be implemented.

1) fapp off. You're the dipshit who responded with the clearly intellectually stimulating response of "ummmm noooo". I'd ask you to at least evaluate the points I offered, challenging though you may find such a task to be.

2) It's a mechlab. What the hell could they possibly do that invalidates anything I've said? We know how they work. It *will* make balance a pain in the dick. It *will* take focus away from player skill and more on min-maxing. It *will* dramatically change gameplay. We've seen them in action before, and we've seen this game in action without it. Enhanced variants focused on certain aspects such as armor or speed will fill all the gaps you'd need filled that a mechlab provides without the min-maxing and balance issues that arise from such. If a certain tactic (for example, laser boating in MW3) is hurting gameplay, you take away that variant or change it. With a mechlab, the devs lose complete control over this.

3) See I have this thing called 'logic' and 'reason'. I think about what a mechlab could be like and how it will change gameplay. I've concluded that the benefits will be vastly outweighed by the negatives. One does not have to see every idea in action in order to be proven that it's a bad idea. Right now we have no mechlab. The gameplay and balance is working pretty good in terms of weapons and mech design. Therefore I'm already proven right in that the lack of a mechlab allows for good gameplay. *YOU* are the moron suggesting that a mechlab will improve the game without having seen it in action. I know for a fact that no mechlab will work just fine. You're the one who is speculating here.

[(TLL)CapperDeluxe]

I suppose the only thing I dislike about pre-made variants is their tendency to have weapons that are never useful. Machine guns, small lasers, and usually AC2's almost always are useless for my tastes and I would rather put it into extra ammo for a more powerful weapon, more armor, whatever.

But then it is important to remember why those small weapons are there in the first place, anti-infantry, anti-air and anti-light mech.  In battletech the board game these 2 damage wonders are actually not half bad to use against lightly armored enemies up close.  In every mechwarrior however, they seem do about 1/4th as much damage after the translation to real time fights, I'm guessing because otherwise the most power light mech out there would simply be tricked out with 12 machine guns.

So long as the configuration is not completely free-form (like Mech2/3) and is hardpoint based (like Mech 4 and their plans) thats for the best, since it at least makes sure that certain mechs retain their roles and all have a counter.  Yes, even boats have their kyrptonite, and its usually a mech that is either a different kind of boat or is one meant to be more versatile.  Think of 2 variants of the Vulture, the 4xLRM20 versus the 2LRM + 2LPL+2MPL.  If these two go at it one to one, all the latter needs to do is get within that 300m range and its over.  Conversely if the 4xLRM20 can keep at a range of 400m or so, its over for the other.  It always comes down to tactics in the end, as even the presence of an Atlas NEVER guarantees a win.

[Uranium - 235]

I suppose the only thing I dislike about pre-made variants is their tendency to have weapons that are never useful. Machine guns, small lasers, and usually AC2's almost always are useless for my tastes and I would rather put it into extra ammo for a more powerful weapon, more armor, whatever.

But then it is important to remember why those small weapons are there in the first place, anti-infantry, anti-air and anti-light mech.  In battletech the board game these 2 damage wonders are actually not half bad to use against lightly armored enemies up close.  In every mechwarrior however, they seem do about 1/4th as much damage after the translation to real time fights, I'm guessing because otherwise the most power light mech out there would simply be tricked out with 12 machine guns.

That should be something changed with weapon balance. I suggest that they change small lasers to deal instant single-point damage similar to how lasers in Mechwarrior used to work, instead of the 'beam' effect. This will give them a bit of their punch back, certainly, and it's a small laser, you're still not going to be able to go nuts with it.

I do agree that the stocks can always be improved, and I do agree that customizations and options are important. Both of those things can be easily covered with the additions of many more variants that run the gambit from heavily armored close range juggernaut to nimble stealthy hit-and-run Timberwolfs.

The primary concern I have is that the mechlab just takes away the dev's ability to control balance, and then you enter the world of moronic gamer-logic of "If you let that Mad Cat Mk 2 with the biggest engine possible and AC-20s to blow your leg off in one shot, you DESERVE TO LOSE," which is not valid logic at all, and overly relying on 'soft' counters such as 'well you can use such and such tactics' also is not a good idea. My second concern is the loss of variation that we'll see and a negative impact on game pacing and flow.