"Sky Camper and the World of Tomorrow"

[Virt]

Jude Law stars in this futuristic blockbuster, set on a dystopian battlefield where skies full of VTOLs hover just out of weapon range, unloading salvo after salvo of LRMs into lumbering Battlemechs who spin impotently below, futilely trying to get a high enough firing angle that might allow a lucky shot to bring down a skycamper, enabling the Mech jock to have a full TWO MINUTES of actually fighting OTHER MECHS before the VTOL spammer respawns into a new VTOL and commences his skycamping anew.

Coming soon to a PC near you!

 

[Thorbinator]

Is this the part where we point out that this is a combined arms game, and that certain vehicles counter and are countered by other vehicles? why, I do believe it is.

If you are being bothered that much by a vtol, have yourself or a teammate step into one of the many vehicles that can blow them up. Vehicles like laser tanks, laser hovercraft, dogfighting aerospace, or even another vtol.

In a mech you are powerful yes, but not all-powerful.

[Uranium - 235]

If you are being bothered that much by a vtol, have yourself or a teammate step into one of the many vehicles that can blow them up. Vehicles like laser tanks, laser hovercraft, dogfighting aerospace, or even another vtol.

Too bad LRMs outrange lasers by 300 meters, and at those ranges autocannon fire only serves to annoy them - the odds of successfully shooting down a pilot who knows what the hell he's doing is slim to none.

If this is supposed to be 'combined arms', lets make it so all mech weapons do 500% extra damage to all vehicles, so we can introduce the concept of helpless rape to other aspects. And then demand that it makes sense so you can force people to do other things they don't want to do to 'balance it out'.

What happens if you don't have a competent pilot? Oh right, you'll never kill the guy until he makes a dumb mistake. I'd propose we give VTOLs a massive altitude restriction so they're forced to use terrain and obstacles to avoid danger, not fly 15 miles in the air hurling lightning bolts from the heavens like Zeus.

[Askis]

Another one?
I thought this thread pretty much covered the imbaness of VTOLs, especially since the complaints in there are nearly the same, although with less funny and more boohoo.

[Virt]

If you are being bothered that much by a vtol, have yourself or a teammate step into one of the many vehicles that can blow them up.

Yes, I could indeed choose to play FlakWarrior, Or AeroWarrior, in order to win some respite from the flocks of hovering skycamping VTOLs and firebombing Aeros.

But I've really kind of been hoping, for a couple of years now, that I'd get to play MechWarrior  :-)

[Digital Communist]

This is why every team needs at least one aero pilot. I've personally shot down the lumbering skycows with Narc/Tbolts several times myself. Teamwork is the key here.

[Virt]

Yes, playing as a member of a proper organised Clan Team, you could certainly draw straws and designate some unlucky bastard to act as FlySwatter for each match.

At the moment though, when we're mostly playing for ourselves in loose teams, we're at the mercy of a small number of people who seem to have confused MechWarrior with Tom Clancy's Hawx, and take pride in shooting metal fish in a barrel ;-)

[Heiskanen]

haha oh wow

threads like these make me wish I didn't suck so bad at aero/vtol

[KingLeerUK]

Threads like this serve no productive purpose.

If my understanding is correct, you are saying that
1. you only want to run 'Mechs in the game,
2. you are not coordinating at any level with the other members of your team, and
3. you are getting wrecked by unopposed airpower from the other team.
This doesn't seem unbalanced at all, and is the outcome that I would expect given your scenario.

'Mechs are not going to be effective against aerospace and VTOLs with the exception of some lucky shots here and there and opportunities presented by pilot error.  That is why both teams have access to both aerospace units and AA tanks.  If you personally don't want to play in either an aerospace or an AA tank, then for the good of the team (since everything is team based in MWLL) your team will need to field some AA or counter-aero units.  If you don't, it doesn't matter how many MKII's and Awesomes you deploy, the guys up in the air will have their way with you... which is pretty much what you are saying is happening.

Sounds like the mod is working just fine!     And yes, you are playing MechWarrior: Living Legends, a combined arms game that includes more than just 'Mechs.  The mod is, of course, in its first beta release, so there are features that have not been introduced and some bugs and quirks, please be patient while we address those.

[Virt]

If my understanding is correct,

Nup.    

All you need to understand is that, for the past couple of days, a guy who really wanted to fight some battles in a Mech couldn't, because in the current Beta, without organised clans with strategies, some players are taking advantage of what seems to be a bit of imbalance around VTOLs.

But that's cool.    It's your game.    I still deeply admire and appreciate the work you guys have put into this mod.

Doesn't stop me though from being a bit sad though that I - currently at least - can't play Mechwarrior in it.    Hence this attemptedly bittersweet humourous thread about my experience a serial VTOL victim.

[KingLeerUK]

If my understanding is correct,

Nup.   

Mostly because you don't want to understand.

But that's cool.

Then please do enlighten me.  Is/was your team running any AA or aerospace to counter the enemy aeros/VTOLs?

[Virt]

I edited my post above the instant I realised that you are one of the game's devs, to better explain what I was getting at, and try to make it clear that I wasn't meaning to come off as being unappreciative or critical of the game you and the team have crafted.

Again, thank you for creating this excellent game, and I hope that once it's further developed and I am able to play as part of an organised clan, I will be able to realise my ambition of focusing on Mech warfare, rather than atmospheric-launched inbound missile avoidance  

Now, get back to work!   And maybe consider the discouragement of those pesky skycamping VTOLers in v0.4 (LOL!)

[Defender]

In accordance to the swath of posts like this, we've increased the effectiveness of AA weaponry like the AC2's and 5's. They now have a tighter cone of fire over range and make Aero quake in fear To adjust this, The Partisan Prime for example (All AC5) is less effective against armor, but more effective against air.

[=KoS= Eldragon]

In accordance to the swath of posts like this, we've increased the effectiveness of AA weaponry like the AC2's and 5's. They now have a tighter cone of fire over range and make Aero quake in fear To adjust this, The Partisan Prime for example (All AC5) is less effective against armor, but more effective against air.

Huzzah! I like it.

However, when you say "Less Effective against armor" does it lean more towards "Totally Ineffective" or "You can still shoot at mechs and vehicles, but its going to take a third more ammo to do the job"?

[TorinAldred]

I fly pretty frequently, both ASFs and VTOLs, and while I do have a fair bit of success with both I don't think that either is particularly overpowered.  The VTOLs are very lightly armed overall and in most cases require several volleys to register a kill or even significant damage.  Where they do excel though is in NARCing targets to allow mechs and vehicles an opportunity to fire more freely against them.

Even the light gauss variant does less damage than most light mech and as such is nothing more than a pest in most cases.

In regards to shooting down VTOLs/ASFs it's not very difficult from a mech either.  Yes mechs have limited firing arcs but as a general rule you can see the VTOLs and ASFs coming inbound so you have an opportunity to tackle them before they are a problem.  Lasers in chain fire are typically the most effective method, pulse lasers even more so, or spinning up the autocannons to take them out.

There are a few players out there that tend to try to sit just out of your reach to harass you but most of them suffer from the same flaw: the remain relatively stationary or fly in a consistent direction (I suffer from this problem in VTOLs as well) which makes them easy targets once you get used to leading your shots slightly.  Missiles also tend to hit a lot more on VTOLs as they don't maneuver as well as the ASFs so pop a few missiles at them.


I guess my point is reasonably simple.  There are viable mechs that are counters to air assets and with air assets being made of mostly tinfoil you don't even have to be that good of a shot to take them out.  Practice a little bit and you will get to the point where neither is more difficult to kill than a mech.