Author Topic: Love / Hate - patch 0.1.0  (Read 1423 times)

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Offline Maj3stic~SPARTA~

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Love / Hate - patch 0.1.0
« on: January 19, 2010, 02:22:38 AM »
Not sure the best place to post this, so I dropped it here.
To the point:
1) Thanks for network tweaks and bug fixes: the game has smoothed out.

2) The tweaks to the tanks... SUCK: in the readme for the patch you state that you receive increased cbills for damage. Did you forget the tanks? I have actually noticed a decrease in the money received for damage.

3) The tweaks to the tanks... SUCK: Why do you have to come to a complete stop before you can rotate the tank left or right when in reverse? Why change this?

4) The tweaks to the tanks... SUCK: The Gauss overpowered? really? It took like 5 or 6 shots to kill anything.

5) The tweaks to the tanks... SUCK: Decreased Gauss power after 300m? See item #4


Was happy to see this mod, even set up a Euro server and a US server. However with the changes now the servers are in doubt. 

Offline CHHš Heatsync

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Re: Love / Hate - patch 0.1.0
« Reply #1 on: January 19, 2010, 02:35:55 AM »
Not sure the best place to post this, so I dropped it here.
To the point:
1) Thanks for network tweaks and bug fixes: the game has smoothed out.

2) The tweaks to the tanks... SUCK: in the readme for the patch you state that you receive increased cbills for damage. Did you forget the tanks? I have actually noticed a decrease in the money received for damage.

3) The tweaks to the tanks... SUCK: Why do you have to come to a complete stop before you can rotate the tank left or right when in reverse? Why change this?

4) The tweaks to the tanks... SUCK: The Gauss overpowered? really? It took like 5 or 6 shots to kill anything.

5) The tweaks to the tanks... SUCK: Decreased Gauss power after 300m? See item #4


Was happy to see this mod, even set up a Euro server and a US server. However with the changes now the servers are in doubt. 


4&5 you can ignore. That only applies to the Heavy Gauss which is not on any tank.

Offline Askis

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Re: Love / Hate - patch 0.1.0
« Reply #2 on: January 19, 2010, 02:57:19 AM »
About 3, there was an exploit where you could get your tank up to ~500kp/h if you turned while drving backwards somehow.

Offline Profane Arbiter

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Re: Love / Hate - patch 0.1.0
« Reply #3 on: January 19, 2010, 03:08:41 AM »
While I still lag and crash...it does at least seem better. Also, beam lasers are now full of win.

My only criticisms are:

1- the method that the pulse lasers were nerfed. At the very least, the Awesome needs to be able to mount more, and without severe heat issues. In any game I've ever played in which something was nerfed, it always sems that the potency reduction is overkill.

2- my other ??? is in regards to the heavy gauss. Why the reduction of effective range? 300m for maximum effect? A gauss rifle user should never be that close if he can help it. It's not an AC, it's a rifle, which means its purpose is for long range fighting. With its reload time, it's in trouble in CQB (well, CQB in mech terms). If anything, the Heavy Gauss should have greater range. If a nerf is needed, slow its reload time even more.

I have read in sarna that the heavy gauss loses power at longer ranges due to greater instability of the larger projectile...and i admit I'm no physicist, but it seems to me that in this reality at least, a more massive projectile would have greater stability that a smaller one, not less as it plows through the air and slows down.

BTW, as anyone taken notice to how severe the damage drop off is?
« Last Edit: January 19, 2010, 03:18:34 AM by Storm_Crow »
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Offline (TLL)martinroshak

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Re: Love / Hate - patch 0.1.0
« Reply #4 on: January 19, 2010, 04:02:43 AM »
According to the laws of physics, a larger projectile WOULD have a greater drop off rate due to force due to gravity, greater air resistance etc.  More force is required to get it as far as fast as a standard Gauss Rifle.  And the impression I get is that it doesn't have the same launch power as the standard rifle due to the projectiles considerable weight.  Think of it in these terms, something similar should be happening to the normal Gauss beyond its current range.  Heavy Gauss Rifles are meant to be totally DEVASTATING at close range, with alright damage at distance, but they're designed to be close in type of weapons.  Prime example?  The Fafnir (which sadly doesn't tote the two HGRs in this game... at least the Info>The Factions>IS>Fafnir page on this site says so).  I haven't really used anything with HGRs since the patch, because by the time I can afford the Hollander I'm already using other things which I have more fun with, so I couldn't say how SEVERE the drop off is.  That of course is something that needs to be taken into account, and I have no comment there.  All I am saying is that the damage reduction over range is a good, canonical thing :)
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Offline =Outlaw=

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Re: Love / Hate - patch 0.1.0
« Reply #5 on: January 19, 2010, 04:06:56 AM »
yes
..down by the river

Offline xInVicTuSx

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Re: Love / Hate - patch 0.1.0
« Reply #6 on: January 19, 2010, 05:45:43 AM »
I one shotted an Uller with the HGR Atlas... god I love that atlas...
I've actually seen an increase in gauss damage... and the new ltG harr is the shit. :)
I agree with the damage reduction for the HG at range... cuts down on the Hollander pop tarting.
Perhaps give the Hollander A a mgun or something? At least something if it has to get in at such close range.

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Offline Seraph

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Re: Love / Hate - patch 0.1.0
« Reply #7 on: January 19, 2010, 10:47:47 AM »
2) The tweaks to the tanks... SUCK: in the readme for the patch you state that you receive increased cbills for damage. Did you forget the tanks? I have actually noticed a decrease in the money received for damage.

Luckily the damage reward multiplier is unrelated to the vehicle you are using. So if you have the feeling you are not getting as much you might wanna do a direct comparision of a single regular Gauss on a Mech and the Gauss Demolisher. If the numbers dont add up you might be onto something and could file a bug report.

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Online Toth

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Re: Love / Hate - patch 0.1.0
« Reply #8 on: January 19, 2010, 05:14:48 PM »
Not sure the best place to post this, so I dropped it here.
To the point:
1) Thanks for network tweaks and bug fixes: the game has smoothed out.

2) The tweaks to the tanks... SUCK: in the readme for the patch you state that you receive increased cbills for damage. Did you forget the tanks? I have actually noticed a decrease in the money received for damage.

3) The tweaks to the tanks... SUCK: Why do you have to come to a complete stop before you can rotate the tank left or right when in reverse? Why change this?

4) The tweaks to the tanks... SUCK: The Gauss overpowered? really? It took like 5 or 6 shots to kill anything.

5) The tweaks to the tanks... SUCK: Decreased Gauss power after 300m? See item #4


Was happy to see this mod, even set up a Euro server and a US server. However with the changes now the servers are in doubt.  


2) Vehicle choice has nothing to do with the changes at all. Weapon damage is weapon damage, and your awards are based on the pure damage you do.  This was most certainly increased.

3) This was done to prevent a rather ridiculous exploit that allowed people to travel at > 300 kph in their tanks.  However, you can still turn while moving in reverse, the problem is when you switch from forward TO reverse. Once you do you need to let go of the turn keys for a split second, and then reapply the command. It will then work like normal. Going forward we'll look for another solution for this.

4) Gauss were not nerfed, in fact regular Gauss was given a small damage increase I believe.

5) This applies to Heavy Gauss only, which IS NOT on any tank currently.
« Last Edit: January 19, 2010, 07:36:00 PM by Toth »

Offline TorinAldred

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Re: Love / Hate - patch 0.1.0
« Reply #9 on: January 19, 2010, 05:32:58 PM »
Tank weapon damage was decreased indirectly based on the patch notes.  Let me clarify:

Against Light/Medium Armor Targets Damage was increased for Tank based projectiles weapons (I think this primarily affected the Partisans)
Against Heavy Armor Targets Damage was decreased.

What does this mean in reality?  Tanks are good at shooting tanks and planes with projectiles, less so against mechs.  This makes a fair bit of sense to me as in every other MW game I've played tanks posed a valid threat, just not nearly as much as another mech.

I haven't spent much time in tanks since the patch though so I can't say for sure.

Offline Crash_411

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Re: Love / Hate - patch 0.1.0
« Reply #10 on: January 19, 2010, 05:59:22 PM »
Not sure the best place to post this, so I dropped it here.
To the point:
1) Thanks for network tweaks and bug fixes: the game has smoothed out.

2) The tweaks to the tanks... SUCK: in the readme for the patch you state that you receive increased cbills for damage. Did you forget the tanks? I have actually noticed a decrease in the money received for damage.

3) The tweaks to the tanks... SUCK: Why do you have to come to a complete stop before you can rotate the tank left or right when in reverse? Why change this?

4) The tweaks to the tanks... SUCK: The Gauss overpowered? really? It took like 5 or 6 shots to kill anything.

5) The tweaks to the tanks... SUCK: Decreased Gauss power after 300m? See item #4


Was happy to see this mod, even set up a Euro server and a US server. However with the changes now the servers are in doubt. 


I love that the devs are actually getting these hotfixes out at a quick clip. Bravo on that.

I hate your bitching.

Offline Clownmite

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Re: Love / Hate - patch 0.1.0
« Reply #11 on: January 19, 2010, 06:02:21 PM »
Against Light/Medium Armor Targets Damage was increased for Tank based projectiles weapons (I think this primarily affected the Partisans)
Against Heavy Armor Targets Damage was decreased.

That was only for the AC2 and AC5 weapons, to make them a bit better at their anti-air role and stop them from chewing up mechs and other armor. It has nothing to do with whatever vehicle or mech happens to be carrying those weapons.


This thread raises another little niggle I have - when going in reverse, the turn keys should be inverted, no? So while in reverse, "A" turns you right instead of left? I feel like every other game I've played with vehicle combat does this.

Offline Dagger6T6

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Re: Love / Hate - patch 0.1.0
« Reply #12 on: January 19, 2010, 07:35:00 PM »
[quote author=Clownmite link=topic=7347.msg97860#msg97860 date=1263920541


This thread raises another little niggle I have - when going in reverse, the turn keys should be inverted, no? So while in reverse, "A" turns you right instead of left? I feel like every other game I've played with vehicle combat does this.
[/quote]

YES! I have to agree, everytime I back up and make a turn I end up turning the wrong way... I thought maybe I was just crazy. I've put massive time into BF2142 so vehicle control using ASDW is pretty much instinctual at this point. But I'm having alot of control issues. Logically I can see how the reverse control is working as it is right now, but in practice it doesn't feel right.

Offline General_Armchair

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Re: Love / Hate - patch 0.1.0
« Reply #13 on: January 20, 2010, 07:08:17 AM »
According to the laws of physics, a larger projectile WOULD have a greater drop off rate due to force due to gravity...

Hope you've got a tutor for physics class because you started being wrong right about here.

First point, gravity.  Newton's law of gravitation.  Gravity will affect both projectiles at the same rate because gravity accelerates all matter at an equal rate.  Remember that story your science teacher told you about the apple and the cannonball being dropped from a tower and hitting the ground at the same time?  I guess not.

You're right in that a heavier projectile requires a greater force to accelerate to the same velocity as a smaller one in the same amount of time, but you're assuming that the same force is being applied to the both projectiles.  In reality (I'm talking the real world) you don't fire artillery shells using the same amount of gunpowder as a 9mm round, you scale everything up to be suitable for the projectile.  In mechwarrior, the gunpowder is replaced with gauss coils, but for our intents and purposes they are the same.  They both accelerate the projectile until it leaves the barrel.

Finally, drag due to air resistance.  For objects moving in the same medium (the air), the values that affect the magnitude of air resistance are the surface area of the object and the velocity of the object.  For simplicity's sake, we'll assume that projectiles are moving at approximately the same speed.  The larger shell definitely has a greater surface area, so the force of air resistance on the large shell is greater than the force of air resistance on the small shell.  HOWEVER, the larger shell has more mass than the smaller one.  We had to compensate for that mass when designing the gun, but now that the projectile is in flight it works in our favor since greater forces have to be applied to make any appreciable change to its ballistic path.  That means that not only will the heavier projectile be more resistant to slowing from air resistance, it will also be more accurate since it won't be blown off course as easily as the lighter projectile.

Here's an experiment you can do at home, wad up a sheet of paper into a ball.  Now wad up some alluminum foil into a larger ball.  The small lightweight paper ball is the smaller projectile.  The larger, heavier aluminum ball is the heavier projectile.  Throw both as hard as you can.  See which one flies farther and more accurately.

also, take a look at these WWII naval guns.

16"/50 Caliber
8"/55 Caliber

Things worth noting, both guns have approximately the same muzzle velocity.  The smaller 8 inch gun has a higher muzzle velocity at 853 m/s, while the heavier 16 inch gun has a slower velocity of 820 m/s when firing High Capacity ammunition.  (think high explosive rather than armor piercing)

Also note the maximum ranges of both guns.  The 8 inch gun has a maximum range of ~29 km, while the 16 inch gun has a maximum range of ~38 km.

In conclusion, from a physics standpoint, at long ranges the heavier projectiles should outperform their smaller cousins.  If any weapon should suffer a damage dropoff, its the light weapons.
« Last Edit: January 20, 2010, 07:20:57 AM by General_Armchair »

Offline Raptor Khatib

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Re: Love / Hate - patch 0.1.0
« Reply #14 on: January 20, 2010, 09:08:58 AM »
Well remember the Fafnir will have 4 versions as well and who's to say that the dual Hgauss version won't be one of them. OR when the mechlab comes out whats to stop a person from rearming it with dual HGauss. The fact of the matter is 1 Hgauss at 700m range was painful enough even the though of 2 of those thing in a mech at 700m with enough punch to kill or cripple anything short of a 70 ton mech (and even then if someone were to fart on it the mech would blow up odds 10 to 1) is more than enough to make me wonder how long till every IS assault mech is packing 2 of those. The nerf to the Hgauss is preemptive balancing before things get out of hand. The Hgauss was like an LBX 20 with a 700m range. Now its an LBX 20 at 300m (and while still do more since the LBX 20 will still scatter quite a bit at that range) and odds are still doing a bit more at 700m than the normal gauss.

@armchair we don't know for sure that they are given the same force depending on the increase in weight of the Gauss rounds for the Hgauss it might be 3 or 4(If the pictures are to scale the round looks to be about 4 times as large on the CBT wiki though i take this with a gain of salt ) times heavier but there might have only been enough room to fit a slightly larger magnetic accelerate which would explain the faster drop off in dmg. Either way there is no way to tell as this is a fictional world and right now we can barely get a ship based railgun system to fire more than a dozen times without the rails melting due to the amount of damage sustained by the plasma produced by it.

FYI standard gauss rounds are 125kg.
« Last Edit: January 20, 2010, 09:14:11 AM by Raptor Khatib »