Battle Armor

[~SJ~ Karuik]

Are you trolling or just being stupid? I can't tell.

ive pretty much stopped bothering with these forums after the mass of noobs... but im tempted enough to make a point... lets just note that highlander is irritated as much as i am. hes not trolling, hes probably more valuable to this community than i am, at least he can carry on a serious discussion. i am (was? i dunno) the comedic relief for some i suppose. trolling? not in his life. stupid? start insulting my best friends and i might be tempted to feed you to the snakes.

on the BA discussion, im for the system of pilots having JJ capable, if less so, BA with very light or no weapons. plus some medium and heavy battle armor that BA specialists can purchase.

[Pikey]

depth  != arbitrary annoyance

having to footslog back to base as a dispossessed pilot does not add any significant depth to the game as near as i can tell, other than to cause a severe pain to the ass of the player. 

People want to get into the game and fight with high tech vehicles or take them down.  Not go for a 5 minute jog where anyone that so much as looks at them can just as easily kill them.

I mean repairs are done in seconds instead of days, ammo is invisibly loaded into your mech instead of waiting for a loader, and your mech tank or asf is built on the spot instead of flown in on dropship the next coming month on factory order.  Its a matter of course that you need gameplay abstractions to have a functional game.  Acceptable breaks from reality, get used to it.

Which is why i reiterate, let ejection put you ass back at home base, nice and easy peazy lemon squeezy

I'm sorry I don't understand what you mean when you say depth = arbitrary annoyance

Too many abstractions leads to an ultimately shallow game which people are happy to play as a time waste. and I think that having just an ejection system that put you back at base is a massive cop-out.  Like Blanc says there should be a big penalty for that or if you go the whole way you may aswell get rid of the ability to repair / rearm and the ability to get in and out of the vehicle (without ejecting). to me that it would just make the game frustrating and boring as hell as everyone would just be ejecting.

Integrating a mech pilot and buyable BA suits is far better:

- You can still choose to die with your mech and respawn at base with full creds.
-  You can still choose eject and die because you will be a nice little target to rack some credits up for someone. (or you can survive being hunted and make it back to base with a sense of achievement if you like)
- BA's can get buffed / nerfed separately to the mech pilot so would ease balancing

I think this has caused quite a digression in the thread but ultimately it means that BA's can get buffed up a bit more. Id be quite happy if the Mech pilot was a very light BA with JJ's just as long as BA get some much need buffs like the claw and more suit variants.

[(TLL)Sky_walker]

Highlander pointed pretty much everything what could be said.

Integrating a mech pilot and buyable BA suits is far better:

Haven't Devs told already that it will not happen?

The BAs might be modified, but you won't start without anything - it had something to deal with game mechanics or whatever... devs just wanted it to be that way.

As Highlander pointed - it may be that you will get nerfed BA at the start with the ability to buy normal, and heavier (better gunz, less JJs) BA later on - it was discussed by devs numerous times quite long ago.

-----------------------------------
My idea:
How to make trips to base instant AND reasonable?

Use APC - see my attachment - it's 2MG armored transporter - if you would enter it from the back - you would be teleported to the base. If you would enter it from the front you would drive it.
Simple and great

(The APCs were suppose to be mobile BA spawnpoints - so this may be added too - if someone spawns here by mistake he can easily go back to main hangar and get a mech. Everyone happy)


[attachment deleted by admin]

[Flyingdebris]

the point of the respawn ejection, in my mind is that it gives people some say in how they check out of a fight.  And it becomes more pronounced if there is some kind of difference between a regular death and an ejection.

For example, if you realize that you are not making it out of this fight, you bail out, your mech goes through a nonexplosive mech death animation, and you thus deny your opponent of getting more points out of you, while you no longer can get points off of them.  Though your opponent or whoever got the last instance of damage still gets a kill credit off you.

In effect its a way to cut your losses.

could this be abused? possibly.  People might check out too early or on accident.  But it'd allow people to get themselves into the fight again with as little fuss as possible, thus allowing for more team flexibility.

and yes, too many abstractions leads to shallow gameplay, but i would say that i think the game would be better putting its gameplay resources in making the combat crunchy and detailed, than having to lose some of that to make ejecting and dying a convoluted process.

[[CW]Outlaw]

right now im to the point that i just want to see BA useable at the moment, ill admit, im not a great mech pilot, im ok in a tank, but i have a blast with BA, and i feel like myself and those like me are being left out, as once you choose battle armor, you are just a gnat and rarely will you make an even marginal impact in a battle, sure against light mechs you put dents and dings in their armor, but in the end its the light mechs that can easily hunt you down.

Already we are going away from how i started this thread, it started as changes id like to see done, to make BA a bit more effective and worth the time playing them than they already are, and has devolved to a "lets add new content thread". My earlier suggestions were such that they only require changes in code and no real additions to the game.

[Rally]

Battle armor hasn't always been that weak. I remember, just after release, you could walk carelessly on the battlefield, people didn't notice you, and if the did, they couldn't hit you. You could pretty much do as you please, killing mechs was so easy. It was a blast!

[Temphage]

OUR POSTS ARE THE SAME EXCEPT YOU WANT TO BE BACK AT BASE INSTANTLY UNLESS YOU TAKE MEASURES OTHERWISE! The only difference is your eject mechanic where you get a little piece of eyecandy then respawn because you ejected.

That's a pretty significant departure from your idea.

[Temphage]

right now im to the point that i just want to see BA useable at the moment, ill admit, im not a great mech pilot, im ok in a tank, but i have a blast with BA, and i feel like myself and those like me are being left out, as once you choose battle armor, you are just a gnat and rarely will you make an even marginal impact in a battle, sure against light mechs you put dents and dings in their armor, but in the end its the light mechs that can easily hunt you down.

Already we are going away from how i started this thread, it started as changes id like to see done, to make BA a bit more effective and worth the time playing them than they already are, and has devolved to a "lets add new content thread". My earlier suggestions were such that they only require changes in code and no real additions to the game.

I'm completely on your side. I loved Tribes and described this game to all my friends as being Tribes-like just because of BA.

However, since the absurd BA nerfs, I've not bothered, because survival is simply too hard. Couple that with the silly C3 nerf as well?

BAs deserve to be better than they are right now, but I do recognize that until BAs are more limited on the field (as the players in BA should be those who have CHOSEN to be BA), you can't really beef them up. If you do, you end up with the eject -> BA problem getting even worse.

Battle armor hasn't always been that weak. I remember, just after release, you could walk carelessly on the battlefield, people didn't notice you, and if the did, they couldn't hit you. You could pretty much do as you please, killing mechs was so easy. It was a blast!

I disagree - and Rally, I'm that guy who played pure-BA tag-team with you on Clearcut and we both ended in Khan / SaKhan for our team. However recognize this - people were still noobs and had no idea what the hell they were doing at that time either. You ended up with Ullers with Gauss Rifles trying to dance around swatting BAs, instead of simply running away (as BA are waaaay too slow to catch anything faster than a Warhammer). People had lousy aim, there was even less teamwork then than there is now (I constantly get sniped from miles away as a BA now). BA had it 'easy' because nobody knew how to handle BA in a mech game before.

The nerf BA got was pretty unneeded and I'd like to see that not only completely undone, but BA to return with a few changes as well. BUT - not until we get rid of pilot -> BA thing.

[Brainwright]

and yes, too many abstractions leads to shallow gameplay, but i would say that i think the game would be better putting its gameplay resources in making the combat crunchy and detailed, than having to lose some of that to make ejecting and dying a convoluted process.

I think this statement is a fine example of how convoluted this argument has become.

The idea is not to make ejection more complicated, but to prevent ejection from creating a fully capable combat unit.

[(TLL)Highlander]

OUR POSTS ARE THE SAME EXCEPT YOU WANT TO BE BACK AT BASE INSTANTLY UNLESS YOU TAKE MEASURES OTHERWISE! The only difference is your eject mechanic where you get a little piece of eyecandy then respawn because you ejected.

That's a pretty significant departure from your idea.

I can not take it any more. If you can not see something as simple as this sitting right in front of your face... I do not currently have the time or resources to tattoo my posts onto your retina, so I give up.

For this exact reason I am going to take a leave of absence from the forums. The overflow of ignorant and/or disrespectful users may force me to damage my reputation through actions I will regret in the future. If at all you may see me in Toast from time to time.

Sorry for the off topic contents of this post, and good day.

[Temphage]

OUR POSTS ARE THE SAME EXCEPT YOU WANT TO BE BACK AT BASE INSTANTLY UNLESS YOU TAKE MEASURES OTHERWISE! The only difference is your eject mechanic where you get a little piece of eyecandy then respawn because you ejected.

That's a pretty significant departure from your idea.

I can not take it any more. If you can not see something as simple as this sitting right in front of your face...

As you may still be reading this, I'm going to point out that the whole 'run back to base' or 'call for rescue gimmick' is the entire point of why yours, Virts, and KingLeers (apparently) idea is completely broken gameplay-wise and therefore terrible. Any idea that doesn't have that crippling, broken flaw is no longer the same idea. Are you seriously forum ragequitting because I refuse to admit that our ideas are similar?

The overflow of ignorant and/or disrespectful users may force me to damage my reputation through actions I will regret in the future.

Might be too late for that.

---

Also, what was this nonsense about:

Not that hard to understand either. Normal battle armor = Normal Jump Jets. Pilot Battle Armor = WEAKER Jump Jets. This means SLOWER without having to walk.

Since I'm just an ignorant, disrespectful user, I fail to see why you're arguing with me over that, when I've said over and over that your pilot = slower is the entire reason the idea sucks so hard. You literally yelled at me in agreement?

Unfortunate that you decided to simply quit instead of actually explaining what you're on about, but whatever. Reading rage-tastic posts was kind of fun, but hardly conducive to this thread.

[Rally]

Well yeah, that's pretty much what I mean Temphage. Of course the lack of skill of my fellow mechwariors was the cause of that situation.

Anyway, that's not coming back, because those players have improved and they aren't getting any worse. I don't even think returning to the pre-nerf state will change anything.

[Virt]

If this game devolves into another Tribes clone, with everyone in flitting around in BA taking potshots at the few lumbering Mechs, then I'm simply not going to play it anymore.

There are plenty of FPSers like that around.   There are NO decent Mech games around.   

So, please, stop trying to fapp up Mechwarrior by further Tribesifying it!    The Magic BattleArmour that Pop Out of Almost Dead Mechs are bad enough as it is >

[Irregular_Peanut]

If this game devolves into another Tribes clone, with everyone in flitting around in BA taking potshots at the few lumbering Mechs, then I'm simply not going to play it anymore.

There are plenty of FPSers like that around.   There are NO decent Mech games around.   

So, please, stop trying to fapp up Mechwarrior by further Tribesifying it!    The Magic BattleArmour that Pop Out of Almost Dead Mechs are bad enough as it is >

Well actually I would go as far to say BA is so enjoyable because there aren't many FPSs around with jump jets centric to mobility nowadays, it's refreshing.

If there was a way to eliminate ejecting BA's then you would see a lot less of them anyway Virt, because they're quite easy to kill if caught in the open against a determined mech, so only people who really actually want to play that way would, otherwise they can't choose to jump into a mech or vehicle which has substantially more upfront firepower and health.

I play pure BA quite a lot and apart from one other person who frequents the 3FL server, and a couple of occasional players, most BAs I see are from ejecting mechs or vehicles (or people foolishly out to get revenge on me on my own terms ()).

[[CW]Outlaw]

Virt, my aim is not to make this a Tribes clone, but to actually give Infantry a role in the game and make it so that we actually have half a chance on the field. Most of the old players have learned how to kill BA off without too much difficulty, and since they nerfed them pretty hard at the start because of mech and vehicle pilots having trouble taking us out, we are now at a weakened state that makes it difficult to be utilized in any particular function.