Author Topic: Thinking of Upgrading... what should happen first aka. what's cheapest?  (Read 1678 times)

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Offline Rally

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Re: Thinking of Upgrading... what should happen first aka. what's cheapest?
« Reply #30 on: February 11, 2010, 12:11:25 AM »
Well, the article that I found states that PCI-e bandwith has little actual impact on performance of even the latest video card. While stepping down from PCI-e 2.0 at 16x, they only found a 2% slowdown at 8x, a 5% reduction at 4x and a mere 25% drop while the bus was running at 1/16th of it's maximum speed. I'm interested in results, not theory.

The only thing I assume is that PCI-e 2.0 8x will serve the video card just as well as a PCI-e 1.0 at 16x. Which is probably true considering it's written on Wikipedia, the link you posted.

Which brings us to the conclusion: if he is to spend money wisely, he is not going to buy a new motherboard just so he can have a PCI-e 2.0. It'll do nothing for him. He won't care if the highway in his computer is crowded, that isn't his problem.

Offline fyrye

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Re: Thinking of Upgrading... what should happen first aka. what's cheapest?
« Reply #31 on: February 11, 2010, 05:43:09 AM »
Well, the article that I found states that PCI-e bandwith has little actual impact on performance of even the latest video card. While stepping down from PCI-e 2.0 at 16x, they only found a 2% slowdown at 8x, a 5% reduction at 4x and a mere 25% drop while the bus was running at 1/16th of it's maximum speed. I'm interested in results, not theory.

The only thing I assume is that PCI-e 2.0 8x will serve the video card just as well as a PCI-e 1.0 at 16x. Which is probably true considering it's written on Wikipedia, the link you posted.

Which brings us to the conclusion: if he is to spend money wisely, he is not going to buy a new motherboard just so he can have a PCI-e 2.0. It'll do nothing for him. He won't care if the highway in his computer is crowded, that isn't his problem.
Lanes has nothing to do with Bandwidth.
x16 Lanes @ 250mbs
vs
x8 Lanes @ 500mbs
Does not mean 500mbs/2 = 250.

"PCIe 1.x is often quoted to support a data rate of 250 MB/s in each direction, per lane."
vs
PCIe 2.x being capable of 500mb/s in each direction, per lane.
So PCIe 1.x means x16 * 250 = 4000MB/s (or 4GB/s)
PCIe 2.x means x16 * 500 = 8000MB/s (or 8GB/s)

So according to the article:
8000MB/s - 2% (@x8) = 7840 MB/s (which is not correct, just that the card in question is not utilizing all of the available lanes in the tests they ran)
Which is still far greater than 4000MB/s

The lanes limit the amount of interrupt requests made to/from the device, not hinder the amount of bits per lane it is capable of.

The article you linked to was all 2.0 configurations, there were no variances of port type vs card type.
The article was to show the differences of performance at different resolutions in different "modes" x1 to x16 lanes on a 2.x setup.

Just because you have 16 lanes available, does not mean they are all in use all the time, only those needed (requested/IRQed) are on.
So if lane 1 - 4 are requested for data they will send 250MB/s per lane, they do not open another lane to provide extra bandwidth for the support, they are reserved for other requests.
Would be like asking a printer to print a document, then sending another job to the same printer, and expecting it to do it at the same time or send the job to printer 2 if printer 1 is busy, it doesn't happen.


So again a PCIe 2.x motherboard will effectively double the data rate capable of being transfered to and from the card, increasing overall performance, vs upgrading to a newer card, the bottle neck isn't at the amount of lanes, it's at the amount of data being passed by each individual lane.
In a perfect world, all lanes would be on all the time, which if the article would have been clearer would be the case.
But on the downside would have had dramatic effects on the tests for each closing of a lane.
« Last Edit: February 11, 2010, 07:18:10 AM by fyrye »
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Offline Rally

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Re: Thinking of Upgrading... what should happen first aka. what's cheapest?
« Reply #32 on: February 11, 2010, 04:49:42 PM »
I'm having trouble understanding that.

So you're saying a PCI-e 1.0 16x link is worse for the video card than a PCI-e 2.0 8x link. Even though they are both rated at the same speed, the bus controller is dumb and cannot properly split traffic into lanes, thus bringing to life a performance penalty how large?

Offline fyrye

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Re: Thinking of Upgrading... what should happen first aka. what's cheapest?
« Reply #33 on: February 11, 2010, 08:49:26 PM »
Will send you a PM with info.
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Offline (TLL)martinroshak

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Re: Thinking of Upgrading... what should happen first aka. what's cheapest?
« Reply #34 on: February 27, 2010, 02:38:10 PM »
So, looking at parts as I've decided to try and build my own PC, but I still have a budget.  How do people find the 9800 GT for performance?  Is there something I could go a little higher with and get better performance?  I'm really looking to run Crysis in the med-high range.
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Offline (TLL)Sky_walker

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Re: Thinking of Upgrading... what should happen first aka. what's cheapest?
« Reply #35 on: February 27, 2010, 06:05:11 PM »
9800 GT seems to be ok for playing MWLL. I heard some nice opinions about it. :)
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Offline Rally

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Re: Thinking of Upgrading... what should happen first aka. what's cheapest?
« Reply #36 on: February 27, 2010, 07:55:52 PM »
I've the 8800GT which the 9800GT is a clone of. It doesn't do med-high for me, it does low with med textures and water. I'll get something better when feel like it.

Offline Barbaric Soul

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Re: Thinking of Upgrading... what should happen first aka. what's cheapest?
« Reply #37 on: February 27, 2010, 08:48:40 PM »
So, looking at parts as I've decided to try and build my own PC, but I still have a budget.  How do people find the 9800 GT for performance?  Is there something I could go a little higher with and get better performance?  I'm really looking to run Crysis in the med-high range.

You need a NVIDIA GTS250/9800GTX or a ATI 4850 to run med-high(mostly high) setting on a 22" 1650*1080 monitor and get playable FPS.
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Offline (TLL)martinroshak

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Re: Thinking of Upgrading... what should happen first aka. what's cheapest?
« Reply #38 on: February 27, 2010, 11:34:38 PM »
So, looking at parts as I've decided to try and build my own PC, but I still have a budget.  How do people find the 9800 GT for performance?  Is there something I could go a little higher with and get better performance?  I'm really looking to run Crysis in the med-high range.

You need a NVIDIA GTS250/9800GTX or a ATI 4850 to run med-high(mostly high) setting on a 22" 1650*1080 monitor and get playable FPS.

Sweet, that's exactly the info I was looking for :)  Had my eye on the GTS250 as well, so will probably go with that one.  Thanks!

Also, now have a thread about building new computer <a href"http://www.mechlivinglegends.net/forum/index.php/topic,8008.0.html">here.[/url]
« Last Edit: February 28, 2010, 08:33:15 AM by martinroshak »
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