Author Topic: Access to the Mechs 3ds files ?  (Read 1053 times)

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Offline UN1T

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Re: Access to the Mechs 3ds files ?
« Reply #15 on: January 25, 2010, 02:38:43 AM »
As one of the devs, I'll step up and answer this one.  Anyone who feels they can take on modeling out the mechs and doing the many steps to actually getting a mech in the game should be a serious modeler and if you really think you have the skill to do so you should be applying to the team or contributing models... not asking us for our files to do so separated from the mod team.  The final word has been given, no go and procreate me some awesome artists and modelers and return when you are ready to offer them up to the MWLL gods.

 :D

care to elaborate on the steps friend ?
as we know its more then just making a model, but what exactly ?
are there certain rules you have to adhere to so the mechs parts work properly ingame ?
is there a poly limit?
is there a moving parts limit ? ie : 2feet, 2 legs , 1 torso , 2 arms , 1 hips ?  or can you go full articulated and add many dynamic moving pieces ?  IE : when a mech powers up, and it has missle racks..the missles bay covers can open up to show its in live fire mode and on ?
i can understand the guys wanting to protect there work , but is it possible to get a flow of what has to be done ?
go look on Crymod and for 3ds tutorials, that's what they're there for.

/facepalm
i give up.
your missing the point.
every mod is different and those who are curious would like to know how it works with THIS MOD.
*wonders off and kicks a puppy*
2 IS Commanders having a chat.

IS Commander 1 : What Clan Mech weigh's 200 ton , with the top speed of a snail and has 70 tons of weapons & armor ...?
IS Commander 2 : No idea .....but i propose we nuke the SOB from space & move on to the next planet.

Offline KingLeerUK

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Re: Access to the Mechs 3ds files ?
« Reply #16 on: January 25, 2010, 03:22:39 AM »
is it possible for access to one of the mech models so the community can see what is involed in building a mech ?
as the quickest way to evolve this mod is if other ppl could help out with mech models , and pulling one apart and seeing how you guys build , rig and execute would gives us some idea what " if we can " do to help brining all the 200+ mechs to the MWLL.
ok ok ok ..i admit it ...I WANT MY THORR AND WARHAMMER IIC-4  , so unless you guys have those 2 models already in the works .. ill have to whip some one into gear and get them started on them.
But access to the mechs them selves would make a world of ease in understanding how to do it.
cheers.

Here is a simple and straight-forward answer:  no source files, designs, code or otherwise will be released to the public.

The other night Toth and I had a hearty laugh at presumption by another player on the server that "the mod is open source so couldn't he see the source C++ code?"

Damn, it's still funny.   ;D
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Offline UN1T

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Re: Access to the Mechs 3ds files ?
« Reply #17 on: January 25, 2010, 04:03:53 AM »
hahah ...thats fine ...
but some numbers or detials would be nice ...as it would be a shame to build a item or mech with 4000+ peice only to be told its to complex.
2 IS Commanders having a chat.

IS Commander 1 : What Clan Mech weigh's 200 ton , with the top speed of a snail and has 70 tons of weapons & armor ...?
IS Commander 2 : No idea .....but i propose we nuke the SOB from space & move on to the next planet.

Offline shadowkiller

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Re: Access to the Mechs 3ds files ?
« Reply #18 on: January 25, 2010, 05:23:03 AM »
This mod isnt open source and no assets will ever be released to the public. We are also reluctent to help people figure out how to diesect the mod. The ONLY way third party assets will be implemented would be is if you were accepted on the team or are some art prodigy and you give us the models to use. (they would then legally belong to the mod) If you feel you have the skill to contribute then please write an application to join the team. We have put ALOT of work into the mod and the last thing we want is it flooded with bad/broken assets and maps. (no saying yours are :) )


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Offline TheANIMAL

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Re: Access to the Mechs 3ds files ?
« Reply #19 on: January 25, 2010, 03:59:53 PM »
Lol, i remember Kamikaze or Criminal, or possibly you shadowkiller took one of my elemental models and put it into the Cryengine 2. I can model fine but i only model for art purposes, never games, it didn't half look rubbish because i hadn't modelled it smooth so the geometry normals looked like crap. :D

Offline UN1T

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Re: Access to the Mechs 3ds files ?
« Reply #20 on: January 25, 2010, 04:28:36 PM »
haha ...after reading your comment..i threw the model into SB2 and i saw 1st hand what you meant.

In SandBox2 crysis wars editor.





In 3ds max 2009.



Very different from each other.
intresting ..ill have to back trak to my 1st couple of saves of the model and see if the exporter gives a slightly different render ingame.
another thing to learn ..all in the name of mechy goodness.

2 IS Commanders having a chat.

IS Commander 1 : What Clan Mech weigh's 200 ton , with the top speed of a snail and has 70 tons of weapons & armor ...?
IS Commander 2 : No idea .....but i propose we nuke the SOB from space & move on to the next planet.

Online Defender

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Re: Access to the Mechs 3ds files ?
« Reply #21 on: January 25, 2010, 08:01:17 PM »
As a modeler I'd like to just pipe in and reiterate some of the statements already made here as well as give a bit more clarification on some issues raised.

The release of our models, and a step-by-step creation process, is highly doubtful to ever be released public for various reasons. Mainly, the team as a whole have figured everything out on our own as we'll expect anyone motivated enough to do as well. We did all the work and we don't want people just freeloading off our efforts. Secondly, and the most important reason, these models that we've created are part of our personal portfolio as well as the coders have created proprietary code they'll use for their own portfolios as well.

I, personally, don't spend 2-weeks to a month modeling an asset just to give it away as public domain. A model I create goes into my demo reel and job applications and giving it public would allow someone to copy, modify or reuse something I spent many man-hours working on. Artists sadly do this all the time, steal artwork, intentionally or unintentionally and use it as their own. There are many models available online to download and dissect, but are not catered to our workflow.

Second, any model I make for this project, based on the NDA I signed when I joined, cannot be distributed publicly because I waved all rights to the model and its uses to MWLL and Wandering Samurai Studio. Once I create that model and upload it to the SVN it's not my model any more and belongs to the game which waves my distribution rights so even if I wanted to give it away, I'm not allowed to do so.

Now, for some general information, nothing to specific but a solid idea of how our models are created and processed from the perspective of a modeler. Generally, you can use any package to model but the final product must be realized in 3DSMax to assign shaders and smoothing groups, as well as exporting of materials, bones and animations. Crytek only released 3DS toolsets so I can do the modeling in Maya, but usually export as an OBJ or FBX to import to 3DS then continue finalization from there.

General polycount is variable, preferably less than 10k polys per model, the less the better in terms of overall performance, but if you're going for less polys, you must emphasize your lack of geometric detail with such things as normal maps, bump maps, specular maps, ambient occlusion maps, diffuse maps and so forth. The normal maps are the biggest thing to net the most detail from any model while retaining the highest possible performance.

As an example, the Puma model is somewhere between 1000-2000polys while the mesh the normal map was rendered from (detail texture) is about 13million polys. That's how the low-poly retains the illusion of depth rendered by the engine. Variably speaking, most models range from 2000-7000polys with a max of 10k and have 1-3 LevelOfDisplay models (LOD's). Greebling your model (adding misc details) is what the high-poly is for, while the low poly is generally for shape and form. Every polygon counts as you only model what needs to be modeled for it to function and react physically with the environment.

Some models share the same basic properties, such as a 3-bone foot (3 separate parts) to create articulation. Legs themselves are two-parts, calf and thigh with a center pelvic base to connect legs and torso. Torso is one single part, with modular extensions added afterthefact aside from arm parts such as canon geometry for certain chassis (like the complex arm geometry of the Madcat and Thor). The cockpit is modeled directly into the interior of the mesh, inherent in its actual design, so we have to take considerations of canon design versus functional design (as in, can you actually see out of this cockpit, can we change it enough to actually have a decent visual range while retaining the integrity of the canon design).

Above all else, I at least strive to make sure there is no clipping and each limb has a min-max free-range of motion so during its maximum animation state the limbs do not clip through any particular piece of intersecting geometry. General rules of poly modeling come into play, for example, since many of these are hard-body objects there doesn't need to be a full-focus on making sure every polygon is 4-sided (general rule of thumb for an animation pipeline), triangles are accepted in only quantities integral to the shape of the geometry you need to create. The engine triangulates everything anyway but quads are win since it makes UV Mapping and Texturing easier. Triangles, as a general rule-of-thumb for modelers, are BAD for characters due to the negative effect they have while skinning (vertex weights) as they create pinching and tearing. This is less of an issue for mechs and vehicles.

These are some general criteria and thought-processes while modeling an asset for the game pipeline. Since I can't get into specifics, I hope this answered some of the questions raised in this thread and gives those willing to model a better idea of what we do when working on asset creation from a modelers perspective.

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Offline UN1T

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Re: Access to the Mechs 3ds files ?
« Reply #22 on: January 26, 2010, 01:12:57 AM »
Thank you Defender.
Its all food for thought and certainly helps with some of my questions.
I hadent even thought to rember the internal cockpit is actualy part of the mech build ..not a seperate build space.
2 IS Commanders having a chat.

IS Commander 1 : What Clan Mech weigh's 200 ton , with the top speed of a snail and has 70 tons of weapons & armor ...?
IS Commander 2 : No idea .....but i propose we nuke the SOB from space & move on to the next planet.

Offline (TLL)Ace

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Re: Access to the Mechs 3ds files ?
« Reply #23 on: January 26, 2010, 02:15:27 AM »
It's a shame, I'd really like to try animating a mech, but I can never find any mech models that are already rigged and I just don't have the time to both rig and animate a mech. Been using Maya for a year and would really like to know where the devs learned to animate mechs.
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In a groundbreaking new feature, MWLL will include a new gametype: MechRockerBandHeroKersplosion.  Pilots will smash the throttle to classic 80's speed metal using custom ethernet plugin to real guitars.  PPC's will be triggered by power chords, and LRM ammo is selected by playing one of 17 distinctive hammer-on rifts.  Get a teammate elemental to hop up on your mech's shoulder and throw up the horns, and with a hot duel you can deflect enemy fire BY THE POWER OF YOUR ROCK!

Online Defender

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Re: Access to the Mechs 3ds files ?
« Reply #24 on: January 26, 2010, 03:53:51 AM »
It's a shame, I'd really like to try animating a mech, but I can never find any mech models that are already rigged and I just don't have the time to both rig and animate a mech. Been using Maya for a year and would really like to know where the devs learned to animate mechs.

Good luck finding something pre-rigged, especially for Maya. Maya makes you do everything yourself, including creation of the bones, linking of the bones, creation of set-driven-keys and custom control schemes. There's probably plugins you can use to create pre-rigged skeletons on sites like http://www.creativecrash.com but you will have next to no luck finding a rig that's not some shitty model based around some complex rig since every rig is usually tailored to the geometry it's based on.

The animations and rigs in our game are custom made through trial, error, blood, sweat and tears, with the couple skilled animators we have, and animations are only done in 3DSMax since transferring bones and linking between packages is nearly nonexistent. Even FBX, which includes animations, turns your bones into geometry but keeps the keyframes. Maya's animation system is much different than 3DS so it's not interchangeable.

Besides, any animator worth his weight can create a basic rig for any model he's creating. If you can't rig your own model, you're nothing more than a puppet pulling the strings of a puppet. Any good animator creates his own custom rigs with his own custom controls for the utmost in control and versatility. Every animator has his/her own style for rigging and control creation as well as animation style. Animation is an entirely separate discipline than modeling. Yes, there are people who specialize in technical rigging and create the scripts and functionality for animators to control models with, but unless you're in a large studio, this doesn't happen. As an artist, you have to be able to model/skin/uv/texture/rig/animate yourself for your demo reel or end up giving credits to the various sources you've acquired your source material from.
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