Author Topic: Alternative battle armor  (Read 5997 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Pentence

  • Apprentice Dev
  • MechWarrior
  • *
  • Posts: 258
  • Karma: 12
    • My deviant page
Alternative battle armor
« on: February 17, 2010, 09:16:53 AM »
EDIT: april 13 2010

BEHOLD ANIMATION! of the SHEDU

EDIT:april 8 2010



This is the shedu I am currently working on ,the animation is a test in the articulation of the joints. Mostly I kept it simple to use a template for the other armors. Only the front legs have true shoulder joints but it works on two single axis rather than all 3 on one bone.

Soon i will have the details on the BA along with some improvements to the overall look.


Ok so there has been quite a bit of discussion on BAs and how to handle them in the future but i think the current system is fine as is,save for a few balance tweaks. The current system mimics how at any given time on a field of battle in the battletech universe you will encounter BAs. As such it is expected of you to need support to handle them properly. Thats what this is about teamwork in a combined arms game.

If you are in a heavymech you are vunerable to BA and Aerospace atacks that  is why ya have lighter support units. If you're in a mech with some machine guns your expected to gun down infantry units to allow strategic units to go and concentrait fire on missle boats or the like.

Thusly i think the current mechanic is fine as i am certain this was the intent of the devs. However yes it does need tweaking. In particular BAs right now are set up to be about 5=1 mech. This is fine with the canon 5 medium BAs should equal a mech and beable to match them evenly or with ambush even take em out eficiently. However ambush dosent work yet. Thats half the BAs role gone.

So i propose this a middle ground,keep the current BAs but tweak the weapons. Make the support ppc more efective but with a higher cost. Give BAs a bit more armor but keep the slower health rate. Also add some code that makes it so only after jumpjeting or fireing a weapon they have a radar sig for brief amount of time. I think this would make things more sensable and in keeping with canon without breaking the game.

In the battletech game a Elemental can take one medium laser and live,albeit hes well messed up. We certainly cant do that in this game yet and it may well be gamebreaking to do so with the current mechanic. So i wouldnt suggest being THAT true to cannon,just allow BAs to have some defined role by offering more equipment to them.

This is where my next idea comes in one ALOT of people have already suggested. Though i have decided to realy dig in and flesh it out. After some research i have a list of variant BAs and equipment that IMO will help flesh out the ideas presented by a few others here.

Variant BAs

Just like with mechs ya get classes. However unlike mechs we could impliment a loadout system without haveing to release a full on mechlab.

Specialized equipment

Depending on the class you choose you have acess to different tools. A heavy class has the srm 4 or light gauss rifle ,a quad assault can have dual weapon mounts etc.  Other medium types can carry the camo system or the booster jet,both of which are canon items. However once you enter a vehicle or mech you revert to the original spawned armor and drop extra items save for two armaments. This reflects the  commonality of the two spawn BAs in their respective factions.

Ok so heres the list i have compiled.  Please feel free to critique or add to it.

Medium


Purifier -this BA is a stealth type that has mimetic armor built in the less it moves the better its software can camoflage it much like a cameleon. However it sacrifices a small amount of protection for this function. Its jump jet capabilites however are on par with a Elemental.



Void-This BA is the Clan answer to the Purifier(actualy based on IS tech though)

Both the Longinus and Elemental also fall into this category. Thusly I saw it fleshed out enough with those two and these stealth suits.


Heavy

Corona-This heavy clan armor is based on elemental armor but with very different tactics in mind. Useing the idea of long range atacks and single heavy weapons it sports no jumpjets but has twice the ground speed of a an elemental. This is offset by its harder to detech stealth armor.(smaller radar radius i figured >.> )



Phalanx-Similar to the Corona however this  design mounts its heavy weapons on its arm rather than the shoulder.



Sirius-A Quad armor that has great speed compared with other BAs . It sports double the speed of most armors even out running heavy tanks. Its max speed is 50 kmh. Its quad design alows for dual mounting of most medium sized weapons.



Sloth MKII-Larger a bit than the  Sirius However it sports the same armament capacity.


Assault


Fenrir- This quad BA is what assault is all about. Maxing speed out at 43 kmh



Shedu-The Clans  assault quad is a force to be reckoned with. More armor than the Fenrir but with reduced speed at 32 kmh(can be changed but thats canon speed).



Grenadier-Geared tword the most powerfull weapon system possible the Inner Sphere created the Grenadier. Its stealth armor similar to heavy armors but with thicker plates. Both harder to hit and kill than its predicesors.(basicly same radius as heavy bipeds but more HP)



Golem-The clans heaviest armor with only destruction in mind. Its system similar to the Grenadier both maxing speed at 22 kmh.




Now this list is only a few BAs but i belive it represents a nice even smatterin for both sides of canon (and one non canon XD) Battlearmors that we could impliment.

Rules

Medium-can only carry two medium weapons no duplicates(basic rules currently in place) or one weapon and a support system.
 
Heavy-select one heavy weapon and can carry 2 medium weapons  or 1 medium and one support equipment . they may sacrifice their medium weapons for limited jump jets(only 2/3 of the normal ones)

Quad heavies get twins of whatever weapons they purchase for one and half the cost of a single unit.They also cant have support systems only two twin sets or one heavy weapon per slot.(IE two man pack ppc and one srm 4 or a medium laser and a srm 4)

Assault- carries a srm 4 and one heavy weapon and one medium weapon.Also they are alowed to exchange their medium wep for a single support system. However no jumpjets as these are just far to heavy for them.

Quad assaults get triples of mediums on the turret and One heavy.As well as a single medium on the body.

Weapons

Medium

man pack ppc,small laser,tag,ac 2,flamer,bear autocannon,micro pulse laser,mag shot gauss rifle

Heavy

medium laser,heavy flamer,mortar,SRM 4,heavy recoilless rifle,PPC (mech sized),machine gun,compact narc,LRM 2

Support Equipment

ECM suite,camo system,Improved sensors,Booster jet (30% to Jump jets energy)
« Last Edit: April 14, 2010, 12:10:09 AM by Pentence »
"the visionaries work goes unoted unto death"~

Offline Zaro27

  • MechWarrior
  • **
  • Posts: 261
  • Karma: 45
  • Nicest Motherfapper Here
Re: Alternative battle armor
« Reply #1 on: February 17, 2010, 09:27:40 AM »
I approve. This could help make BA tactically viable.
I want to put a bullet between the eyes of every panda that won't screw to save it's species. I want to open the dump valves on oil tankers and smother all those French beaches I'll never see. I want to breathe smoke. I want to destroy something beautiful.

Offline (TLL)Siilk

  • Techpriest software engineer
  • Apprentice Dev
  • Living Legend
  • *
  • Posts: 3025
  • Karma: 124
  • A single trueborn is an army by himself
    • My facebook profile
Re: Alternative battle armor
« Reply #2 on: February 17, 2010, 11:10:11 AM »
 Interesting ideas. BA selection is good, but I'm not sure how I feel about quads. Maybe they better be left out of MWLL, as LAMs and Protos are.

 By the way, may I point out that all over the forum we already have a whole lot of ideas about how BA should work, but still haven't heard a word from devs about what they think on this matter. Some comments on planned BA mechanics would be greatly appreciated, as for now all our thoughts are pure speculation. Once we know what devs are planning, at least in general, it would be easier for us to come with ideas that actually could be useful for future implementation in MWLL.



"This Clan posses intelligence, the burning passion of true hunters, and a spirit that serves as a beacon to the rest. I mingle my blood with the Wolves."
- ilKhan Nicholas Kerensky, Strana Mechty, 2815

Offline (TLL)Sky_walker

  • Living Legend
  • *******
  • Posts: 2638
  • Karma: 65
  • Close Range Attack Forces
    • MWLL Wiki
Re: Alternative battle armor
« Reply #3 on: February 17, 2010, 12:28:35 PM »
Now this one is GREAT!

FAAAAAR better than the old idea!


Love it! And the look of BAs! And the balance! I only would take away additional weapons from current BA (aka. light) so that it would stay as pilot and lower it's armor quite a bit, so that mech laser could kill it more easily. Other than that it'd be still have nice chances to return back home and kick back when needed (ie during BA vs BA fights, so that it could still help mechs fighting heavy/mid BAs).

As of quads - I'd also leave them alone...  ::) but if made nicely and with decent speed but no JJs they could be nice addition to the battlefield
MWLL Wiki Newsletter: Wiki suffers from spammers and lack of activity - change it now, jump in and contribute with something useful! :D


Proud to be C.R.A.P. inspiration # MWLL Wiki Admin # MWLL Alpha Tester # Dev Team # MWLL Defense Force Mercenary - Battlemech Barracks

Offline (TLL)Siilk

  • Techpriest software engineer
  • Apprentice Dev
  • Living Legend
  • *
  • Posts: 3025
  • Karma: 124
  • A single trueborn is an army by himself
    • My facebook profile
Re: Alternative battle armor
« Reply #4 on: February 17, 2010, 02:06:18 PM »
Now this one is GREAT!

FAAAAAR better than the old idea!

Actually, why not combine it with the "old"(Ragor's) idea. He doesn't specified what canonical BA types would take each role, but his rules of BA engagement is much more detailed, than Pentence's.



"This Clan posses intelligence, the burning passion of true hunters, and a spirit that serves as a beacon to the rest. I mingle my blood with the Wolves."
- ilKhan Nicholas Kerensky, Strana Mechty, 2815

Offline (TLL)Sky_walker

  • Living Legend
  • *******
  • Posts: 2638
  • Karma: 65
  • Close Range Attack Forces
    • MWLL Wiki
Re: Alternative battle armor
« Reply #5 on: February 17, 2010, 02:23:37 PM »
Because in this scenario player have MUCH more freedom of choice. That's why I love this idea.
Old idea was like poor man's mechwarrior (without mechlab), this idea is like ultimate mechwarrior.  8)
MWLL Wiki Newsletter: Wiki suffers from spammers and lack of activity - change it now, jump in and contribute with something useful! :D


Proud to be C.R.A.P. inspiration # MWLL Wiki Admin # MWLL Alpha Tester # Dev Team # MWLL Defense Force Mercenary - Battlemech Barracks

Offline 7.[WD]Ragor

  • Star Colonel
  • ****
  • Posts: 1284
  • Karma: 101
  • Maj.7thWolf'sDragoons a.D.
    • 7th. Regiment 'eta' Wolf Dragoons
Re: Alternative battle armor
« Reply #6 on: February 17, 2010, 02:45:48 PM »
 :) I just don't care at all. The only thing which counts for me: Get rid off these fapping lame bailing out and fighting girlies after they failed in piloting.
 
And the 'old'' idea was mainly collected together by the various threads out there all around the same topic, just a compilation of the community with an eye friendly editing. ;)

My point is (I can't repeat often enough): Switch off BA for pilots!!!  >:(

Everywhere in the whole forum in nearly every thread I read canon canon canon. LOL. But an Elemental fits into a cockpit... er... yes... while he is wearing his armor... sure x2. And he is able to pilot a mech. yes, no doupt about it. And the armor improves his piloting skill. (thats why they have to bail out so often ;)). Definately.  And the electrodes just plug into his 'sweet spot' -> that's why they shave it. Exactly.
« Last Edit: February 17, 2010, 03:12:54 PM by Ragor »

Offline Redvan

  • Lance Sergeant
  • **
  • Posts: 488
  • Karma: 18
Re: Alternative battle armor
« Reply #7 on: February 17, 2010, 03:42:14 PM »
:) I just don't care at all. The only thing which counts for me: Get rid off these fapping lame bailing out and fighting girlies after they failed in piloting.
 
And the 'old'' idea was mainly collected together by the various threads out there all around the same topic, just a compilation of the community with an eye friendly editing. ;)

My point is (I can't repeat often enough): Switch off BA for pilots!!!  >:(

Everywhere in the whole forum in nearly every thread I read canon canon canon. LOL. But an Elemental fits into a cockpit... er... yes... while he is wearing his armor... sure x2. And he is able to pilot a mech. yes, no doupt about it. And the armor improves his piloting skill. (thats why they have to bail out so often ;)). Definately.  And the electrodes just plug into his 'sweet spot' -> that's why they shave it. Exactly.

ummm...  your argument makes no sense at all.  if someone fails at piloting, they're going to fail harder at BA.  If you're having a problem with BA's that hop out, then you should check your aim.
R.I.P. -43...

-43 karma + +52 karma to get to +17 = 103 total karmas!

100 Karmas achieved 6/24/2010
103 Karmas achieved, 12/29/2010

The Karma Meister

Offline Pentence

  • Apprentice Dev
  • MechWarrior
  • *
  • Posts: 258
  • Karma: 12
    • My deviant page
Re: Alternative battle armor
« Reply #8 on: February 17, 2010, 03:49:49 PM »
:) I just don't care at all. The only thing which counts for me: Get rid off these fapping lame bailing out and fighting girlies after they failed in piloting.
 
And the 'old'' idea was mainly collected together by the various threads out there all around the same topic, just a compilation of the community with an eye friendly editing. ;)

My point is (I can't repeat often enough): Switch off BA for pilots!!!  >:(

Everywhere in the whole forum in nearly every thread I read canon canon canon. LOL. But an Elemental fits into a cockpit... er... yes... while he is wearing his armor... sure x2. And he is able to pilot a mech. yes, no doupt about it. And the armor improves his piloting skill. (thats why they have to bail out so often ;)). Definately.  And the electrodes just plug into his 'sweet spot' -> that's why they shave it. Exactly.

The current system mimics how at any given time on a field of battle in the battletech universe you will encounter BAs. As such it is expected of you to need support to handle them properly. Thats what this is about teamwork in a combined arms game.

Correct that a pilot wouldnt be able to pilot a mech in it. However if we go with the proposed idea presented by people who advocate the no BA ejecting we would have less than a lance of BAs at most times on the field. This does not acurately represent the resitance from BAs one would likely encounter.  You will have lots of if not more lances of armor than mechs.

With only 16 vs 16 games its hard to mimic a full on army body. Thats why the system in place is there its a comprimise.

Now i do love your detail on the items ya presented but they carry too many systems  way past cannon standards. Which is what devs are trying to stray from. 

Quote
Actually, why not combine it with the "old"(Ragor's) idea. He doesn't specified what canonical BA types would take each role, but his rules of BA engagement is much more detailed, than Pentence's.

I didnt detail it becouse you cant as unlike ragors prebuilt idea i presented armaments to be selcted by the players. You define your own role. Also i didnt want to present rules for the armamaments as the devs will likely be able to use the battletech rules to determine them or they already have defined systems they follow.

Lastly i didnt present this list in regors last thread as it didnt seem to fit. Also the posti did make there likely got passed over. So to allow the devs to possibly see this i posted a new thread.
« Last Edit: February 17, 2010, 04:02:50 PM by Pentence »
"the visionaries work goes unoted unto death"~

Offline 7.[WD]Ragor

  • Star Colonel
  • ****
  • Posts: 1284
  • Karma: 101
  • Maj.7thWolf'sDragoons a.D.
    • 7th. Regiment 'eta' Wolf Dragoons
Re: Alternative battle armor
« Reply #9 on: February 17, 2010, 03:50:30 PM »
ummm...  your argument makes no sense at all.  if someone fails at piloting, they're going to fail harder at BA.  If you're having a problem with BA's that hop out, then you should check your aim.

@Redvan: I always love these well founded comments. I have no problem killing BA's (just check my stats if we are on the same server one day -  I love to have an astronomic K/D thx to the bail-out-monkeys).

BTW: If I have problems with BAs I would be really clever by having started a thread to make them harder, to turn them into the threat they should be.
Just try to think about it one second, perhaps you get the point. (no worries, it doesn't hurt)

Its just an annoying thing and got nothing to do with Battletech at all. But since this is supposed to be a BT-game (and it shall be this close to this often quoted canon-thingy) I missunderstood the whole idea why this game was made/is being made. Sorry, my fault.

@Pentence: Sorry if you missunderstood my post. I like and approve your ideas!
 The 'get rid off BA for pilot' I just repeat over and over again like a mantra at every situation where I can bring it in.

BTW: Elementals/Longinus are supposed to be rare on the battlefield in the BTU, its some kind of elite. The battlefield is full with ordinary infantry (even on the clan side), but I think no player would like to play an instant-death-unit.

Anyway, lets get back to topic.
« Last Edit: February 17, 2010, 06:08:59 PM by Ragor »

Offline Redvan

  • Lance Sergeant
  • **
  • Posts: 488
  • Karma: 18
Re: Alternative battle armor
« Reply #10 on: February 17, 2010, 06:08:10 PM »
ummm...  your argument makes no sense at all.  if someone fails at piloting, they're going to fail harder at BA.  If you're having a problem with BA's that hop out, then you should check your aim.

@Redvan: I always love these well founded comments. I have no problem killing BA's (just check my stats if we are on the same server one day -  I love to have an astronomic K/D thx to the bail-out-monkeys).
BTW: If I had a problem with BA I would never started a thread to make them harder, to turn them into the threat they should be. Just think about it one second, perhaps you get the point.

Its just an annoying thing and got nothing to do with Battletech at all. But since this is supposed to be a BT-game (and it shall be this close to this often quoted canon-thingy) I missunderstood the whole idea why this game was made/is being made. Sorry, my fault.

@Pentence: Sorry if you missunderstood my post. I like and aproove your ideas!
 The 'get rid off BA for pilot' I just repeat over and over again like a mantra at every situation where I can bring it in.

BTW: Elementals/Longinus are supposed to be rare on the battlefield in the BTU, its some kind of elite. The battlefield is full with ordinary infantry (even on the clan side), but I think no player would like to play an instant-death-unit.

Anyway, lets get back to topic.

so, if you have no problem killing them, then why would you want them to be penalized for bailing?  imo, once they bail, they're penalizing themselves, I get an easy BA kill, and an empty mech to destroy.  = free points for me and my team.

it's all great and all that you have a thread to make them harder, but in that thread people also want the current BA "pilot" to be reduced to a chicken with it's head cut off.  That wont fly.  I dont give a rats ass about "how it was in the BT universe".  I care about a well balanced game that is high speed and fun.  The ability for a pilot to eject when his mech is near destroyed, and continue the fight on foot, keeps the speed of the game up.
R.I.P. -43...

-43 karma + +52 karma to get to +17 = 103 total karmas!

100 Karmas achieved 6/24/2010
103 Karmas achieved, 12/29/2010

The Karma Meister

Offline 7.[WD]Ragor

  • Star Colonel
  • ****
  • Posts: 1284
  • Karma: 101
  • Maj.7thWolf'sDragoons a.D.
    • 7th. Regiment 'eta' Wolf Dragoons
Re: Alternative battle armor
« Reply #11 on: February 17, 2010, 06:11:55 PM »
@Redvan: Yes, you're right, forget it.

BACK TO TOPIC?

Offline (TLL)Sky_walker

  • Living Legend
  • *******
  • Posts: 2638
  • Karma: 65
  • Close Range Attack Forces
    • MWLL Wiki
Re: Alternative battle armor
« Reply #12 on: February 17, 2010, 11:21:58 PM »
Quote
people also want the current BA "pilot" to be reduced to a chicken with it's head cut off.
yea... that's what I try to point out.


Anyway - so, what you folks think about Quad mechs?
I guess it'd be more fun to add one of these almost-VTOL BattleArmors instead - something faster, more agile and more versatile than quad BA, only I'm bit afraid it could be something like "shoot the fly" game if many players gonna start using it.
On the other hand - fast quad BAs would require far more work, not saying about the lack of possibility to die under mechs feet which could make them bit more dangerous than they should.
In any case - it'd be good to have fast BA - or with huge armor but no JJs, or VTOL-like (very-long-lasting JJs? Or miniature VTOL? there were both as far as I remember) but with low armor. It's more like... what would be more difficult to kill? That one should be added.
MWLL Wiki Newsletter: Wiki suffers from spammers and lack of activity - change it now, jump in and contribute with something useful! :D


Proud to be C.R.A.P. inspiration # MWLL Wiki Admin # MWLL Alpha Tester # Dev Team # MWLL Defense Force Mercenary - Battlemech Barracks

Offline Pikey

  • Recruit
  • *
  • Posts: 95
  • Karma: 0
Re: Alternative battle armor
« Reply #13 on: February 17, 2010, 11:33:10 PM »
I don't really have much Battletech knowledge as I've only played MW 4 and MWLL but what is the scale of those quads?

Offline Flyingdebris

  • Bushy B is my homeboy
  • MWLL Contributor
  • Living Legend
  • *
  • Posts: 2397
  • Karma: 135
Re: Alternative battle armor
« Reply #14 on: February 17, 2010, 11:54:46 PM »
those quads are about the size of a van or suv

i'm not too keen on having shoot the fly issues with vtol BAs, but would definitely like to see a balanced way of getting them in

maybe they are just that fragile, maybe because the high jj heat sig, you can lock on to them with missiles, i dunno
Wherever mechs are needed, I am there