What happened to Balance!!!!!

[Psycho7]

Before we get another "You deal with them like this..." Post, you better have some statement as to why YOU think they are not the /easiest/ and /most damaging/ weapon in the game, cause thats what this is about, not if they can be countered.

Part of close range weaponry is getting close enough to use it. You can't just charge in head first and expect to do anything useful. Use cover, ECM/Passive, Jump Jets and all kinds of other tricks to get in close and brawling is very very effective, especially against the styles of play that you have mentioned.

Remember that a BA, the free asset, can easily take out a Long Tom or dedicated missileboat 1v1.

You totally missed the point in this post, No. 1) I am not an idiot and don't assume you or others who post here are, I don't run headlong into the fight; 2) I work with teammates; 3) I am a talented gamer in general, so this is not "I SUCK! Boohoo." Post..... Now Continuing,

I prefer to use light mechs and hit and run tactics using passive, all that jazz... I get in there get kills, yeah. I'm saying that it's a silly tactic... You do it just to say, "Yeah, I can do that." If you want to be the most effective you will run mostly LRM or LT with one or two CQ support mechs. The SIMPLEST weapon to hit with does the MOST damage and has the LONGEST range. Wait... Any disadvantages? Well its suppose to (but doesn't really) suck at close range. (Point down and shoot!)

... As to the topic of the OP, the devs will bring balance back, its a beta, and I am sure that this will not be the last time where there is balance lacking. Also realize that this patch was one of the first times the devs gave us a release date pretty far in advance and with release dates comes rushing no matter what. I'm not saying its wrong, i like release dates, but more patches will come and balance will be established, just gotta wait it out 

I don't want to sound like a hater here, I love the mod and all the work is awesome, I also know nothing is perfect and regardless something is always unfair, games and/or life, I am just giving my feedback. My first post was after trying to play with a friend who just got the beta and they just got frustrated and quit, I soon followed but I am far from counting MWLL and the team out.

[TanteTrude]

Wow slow down, AMS should work perfectly fine on Arrow IVs and Tbolts both. Takes a number of shots, but it should be able to bring them down. If this is not happening, this needs to be repro'd for me as a bug.

Im using Arrows,and i've never seen one shot down by AMS so far...

Back to Balance...i think Long Tom is too heavy armored. When u get in close range it have to blow off with everything bigger then a medium laser. I've tried to shoot a Long Tom as BA but it takes too long. And look at Marshes, u can sit down in hangar and shoot right out of it...boring...maybe its good for real tactical gaming with Teams who really play good together but on publics? When someone new hits a server and gets killed by Long Tom...how often will he take it? 4-5 times? 10 times? After a while he will go,and never come back, and i dont think that this wonderfull MOD is done for about 100 Players around the World.

AND its not a Long Tom with only 1500m range...Thumper,ok,but not Long Tom 

[Mordegar]

C8 it.
They are slow and can't maneuver very well, a jumping BA should have no problems with dropping 2-3 C8's on it.

A dedicated LT driver will always try to stay in a tight place with walls or a hillside right next to them, so they can splash something that's trying to walk under their guns.

[7.[WD]Ragor]

Wow slow down, AMS should work perfectly fine on Arrow IVs and Tbolts both. Takes a number of shots, but it should be able to bring them down. If this is not happening, this needs to be repro'd for me as a bug.

Im using Arrows,and i've never seen one shot down by AMS so far...
(...)

Jup, I often get used by A4s... AMS works on them, it fires like hell at the approaching missiles. But the only problem is: They refuse getting destroyed and just destroy me or at least damage me seriously. 

But when AMS would shoot A4 down, there would be no use for them anymore...
And IMO I did something wrong if I get A4 locked on me-> my own fault.

[warmachine79]

Why don't they just make LongToms fragile as shit as artillery pieces are supposed to be? Make them blast after one PPC-Shot - balance fine.

[Gallonigher]

C8 it.
They are slow and can't maneuver very well, a jumping BA should have no problems with dropping 2-3 C8's on it.

A dedicated LT driver will always try to stay in a tight place with walls or a hillside right next to them, so they can splash something that's trying to walk under their guns.

That would be true were it not for the fact that Toms are usually escorted by a pack of mechs just waiting to pick off anything that comes close, including BAs. 

[whatever]

long toms are fine they would be best used in a power struggle map to take out the other teams bunker like the tac tank in crysis..

otherwise i think their just like arrow missle system, (a hint: take lbx-20 and ppc puma and it will smoke longtoms)

[DruidChiken]

C8 it.
They are slow and can't maneuver very well, a jumping BA should have no problems with dropping 2-3 C8's on it.

A dedicated LT driver will always try to stay in a tight place with walls or a hillside right next to them, so they can splash something that's trying to walk under their guns.

That would be true were it not for the fact that Toms are usually escorted by a pack of mechs just waiting to pick off anything that comes close, including BAs.

if they are escorted by other mechs in a tight group then thats good since if the opposing team has a longtom then they have more targets to hit in one go

tbh if the LT was limited in its amount of free tonnage they can carry so they would have to go for reloads more often and making them succepable to splash damage from their own weapon it would make them more acceptable

[dsaint24]

Even if you reduce the tonage it doesnt matter. When my friend pulls out the LT i go park an apc RIGHT in front of it so that it can constantly buy ammo. It also soaks up the damage for it in some cases. Omn omn omn nasty tactics.

However, I still don't find them cheap. I think people need to adjust their playstyle. And if a unit can easily be countered, why is it op? The unit has both extremes, extreme damage, and extremely low armor. It evens out in most aspects. Ok maybe drop the damage a tad. But as it is I haven't seen them dominate the field. Just my opinion.

[(TLL)Sky_walker]

I think people need to adjust their playstyle. And if a unit can easily be countered, why is it op?

And this is the problem. Some think that standing still or running towards any target and shooting will make them win. It's obviously wrong. For last 2 days most of targets I killed with LT were players who run towards me and shoot... (even with light mechs) - this cannot work.
If you were spotted - hide and run for other target. But don't go 1v1 with Long Tom on open ground - noone stands a chance if LT player have at least a little bit of good aim.

[Gibbage]

LT's arnt squishy enough.  They are field artiliry.  Made to be kept away from the front lines.  Yet I see them at the front lines all the time.  I saw 1 go toe-2-toe with an Atlas, take 2 alpha strikes, and win with a single hit.  Thats just stupid.  Even if I was able to sneak in with a Hurasser, it would take far too long to take him down.  By then his team is on me.  Same in BA.  It took way too long to widdle him down.  There armor needs massive adjusting.  Also, aero's are now rather useless.  Cant last 5 seconds now, so you cant counter LT's with aero's.

[Liberius]

I think people need to adjust their playstyle. And if a unit can easily be countered, why is it op?

And this is the problem. Some think that standing still or running towards any target and shooting will make them win. It's obviously wrong. For last 2 days most of targets I killed with LT were players who run towards me and shoot... (even with light mechs) - this cannot work.
If you were spotted - hide and run for other target. But don't go 1v1 with Long Tom on open ground - noone stands a chance if LT player have at least a little bit of good aim.

agreed

You are obviously correct that it is easy to hit 'mechs that are closing on you(That's why i always try to run abeam or at least diagonally to my target). However, I think this is the light 'mech pilot's own dumb fault for closing on anything in a straight line. I hardly think its a balance problem. Light 'mechs (and Scats in most cases) are meant for hit and run and flanking maneuvers. If it closes on anything in a straight line it's not going to live very long.

Perhaps a way to alleviate any chance of LTs being able to fully defend themselves is to:
A) slow the turret's tracking speed
and/or
B) put a minimum arming range on shells, so they can't blast targets so close.

Is the armor really that tough?(I'm not being facetious I'm genuinely asking) I have limited play time in the LT, but I did notice it is rather fragile. I took 2 hits from an LRM 20 and it destroyed my cannon. Maybe there were more missiles than I thought. If I was wrong about the salvos and it took any more than 40 LRMs to knock me out, then yes the LT's armor needs to be reduced imho.

[=KoS= Saber15]

Last night, I got killed by the LTs aplenty so I decided to do something about it: I went up against an LT twice, once with support, once without. The first time around, I was using an UAC Atlas and delivered two alpha strikes on the LT, only to have the LT one shot me. Second time I went in alone and alpha struck it with a Warhammer to get one-shotted once again...no surprise there. I am talking point blank here about both occasions.

You don't use anything bigger than a ShadowCat for killing LT, unless you want to die from a point blank LT shot. And you stay far enough away so they can't aim right at you, but close enough so they can't arc it towards you.

[Brainwright]

But if that's not an option or you just don't like flying, then light mechs doing "hunting patrols" are you best bet.  C3 is invaluble for detecting a long tom as a team and it really pays off to scout.

My greatest gripe is this just not effective.  I've flanked Long Toms with light mechs, only to be blasted with a direct shot to my MASC-running mech as soon as I broke cover within 300m.

I think the developers in general need to redefine what's considered a difficult shot, because we have a lot of skilled marksman about, and the effectiveness with particular weapons, particularly the Long Tom, is mind-boggling.

[^sPikE-]

Most of us agree that the Longtom is a strong, even overpowered asset. even the devs, thats why they promised to work on it for the next fix.

theres something i dont really get: does anyone really think there can be sucha thing as a perfectly balanced game? the general balance will allways be dependant on the skill of the players, the tactics used, the COUNTERtactics used, and not only asset stats. its not like the enemy team can surprise you with anything, maybe only right after new version which is what happened now. you know the assets they have and you assign priority according to that knowledge. if you are in a fast light mech and see that there is a missleboat or LTA firing you will stop scratching the assaults and go deal with it, using flanking and passive radar.

i must also state that the LTA is only a major problem on small maps like marshes and inferno, where it can fire directly from base. on the bigger maps, if it tries to stroll out it will not last long. any mech that sees a lone longtom riding into position will go after it and alert all his friends. aeros prioritze longtoms, because they are helpless against them. cant even dodge those narcs or firebombs.


even so, hitting target with the longtom is far from easy (now that players are prepared for them). okay players who choose to stop are sitting ducks. A STILL MECH IS A DEAD MECH, longtom or no. as soon as it starts moving, hitting it with the longtom is much much harder. you must constantly compare the impact distance and target distance, check the radar for the course of the target, and fire sufficiently ahead of time to compensate. yes, if you have an attack group of enemy assault mechs that strolled out all at once that is not going to be such a problem, but this i would say this is the other teams fault. KNOW THY ENEMY. if you charge with an attack group you should have scouts (preferably aeros) that report on assets such as the longtom being deployed. now if you know there is a longtom on D4 you will divert resources to take care of it, no? of course, if you barely managed to organize a strike team and then got obliterated because the other team was prepared and you werent, thats your fault isnt it?

this is still the beta, and so none of this works as it will in 1.0. but i strongly believe that many people here are getting too arrogant. if you cant use your favourite tactics anymore because a new asset is in play, then ADAPT! just like in real war i used to fly only the Sulla B pre-patch, once i tested all vehicles it was the best option for me, now i tried it once and while i still like it, the mechs are much more advantageous in this patch. so i adapted and am now a stritcly ground fighter.


and longtoms dont bother me a bit. i bother them