What happened to Balance!!!!!

[^sPikE-]

one more thing: the ideal scenario for the longtom is many enemies on the radar, some of them occasionaly leaving the group to attack the LT. if 2 mechs attack at the same time (and dont stay together), what chance does the longtom have? he will have to choose one and maybe destroy him, and then get pwned by the otherone.

and finally, yesterday i tried attacking the LT straight on, and when i saw the kill shell incoming i ejected and started harrasing the LT at close range. he first twitched nervously, then ejected and ate my PPC, leaving the longtom to me to RAIN SOME POWER on the enemy team from behind

[Comradejim]

I support adding a minimum range to the shells. This keeps them effective at long range, but solidifies their need for defenders.

[7.[WD]Ragor]

All fine I read until now. And yes, a long tom is not a real thread when you go out out just to hunt them.

But yesterday (on clearcut, mid to lategame) I had to experience that the LT is nearly unstoppable when coordinated with other units. Opposing team (clan) had a LT at upper left D3 (small valley), guarded by an Atlas with AngelECM, supported by an APC and AA-covered by a Partisan Prime (and a Raven was running around at our base all the time, just evading. C3?). Took our (4 TS-coordinated players) team over 10 minutes to find the LT. And when we finally found them there was nearly no chance to kill this group.

Was impressive by the tactic but really annoying. And the LT kept on fragging the whole time, nearly whole IS quitted and we got filled up with new players which had no clue what hit them when they just left the bays... and there was no way to motivate them to leave the base (where they got killed in groups anyway), because one step outside the walls and a missile rain started from the rest of the camping crowd of the Clanners which had advanced to midfield for camping positions behind the new rocks...

Great game...
 
When we finally managed to get the LT and pushed the campers back the score had been so bad for our side, no chance to win this round at all...

But after all a memorable experience...

[Liberius]

^Correct me if i'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure 2 Sulla's could have destroyed the long-tom, since one partisan prime isn't too big of a deal, and there is no field repair at the moment. On top of that, it sounds like their team was committing a lot of players/assets towards protecting one unit. Take out that one unit and they are hanging out over there for nothing.

After playing another round of LT hunting, I have decided that LTs do indeed have a bit too much armor, but it is about right. In my previous game, I LT hunted the entire round with a Scat B. Two pulls on the LBX20 at less than 150 meters and a few bursts from the Medium Pulse Lasers will kill one. However, this requires suicide tactics on sandblasted since the Long Toms just sit in their base.

[Freakazoid]

LT fix can't come soon enough.

Probably the most annoying thing is how some people figured out the secret to ranges without a range to target number. I can hit mechs that are exactly 1250m and 1500m out. Any other number is a mystery to me. Just when I figure out where a certain range is, I try to follow up but only waste cash.

At least I feel a little better when I'm on sandblasted. I like to hide behind a rock with my radar on, where LTs waste at least 5 shots trying to get me, sometimes more.

[Gibbage]

one more thing: the ideal scenario for the longtom is many enemies on the radar, some of them occasionaly leaving the group to attack the LT. if 2 mechs attack at the same time (and dont stay together), what chance does the longtom have? he will have to choose one and maybe destroy him, and then get pwned by the otherone.

and finally, yesterday i tried attacking the LT straight on, and when i saw the kill shell incoming i ejected and started harrasing the LT at close range. he first twitched nervously, then ejected and ate my PPC, leaving the longtom to me to RAIN SOME POWER on the enemy team from behind

Your assuming the Long Tom is alone.  From what I have seen, thats never the case.  Typically they have some support units, or canp by there base.  In the latter option, they keep getting fresh support units from people spawning, and any base defense turrets.  If a LT has support, its damn near impossible to kill, and they almost always do.  Even if you get in, it still takes a LONG time to take it out, and by then his friends are on you like white on rice. 

[^sPikE-]

one more thing: the ideal scenario for the longtom is many enemies on the radar, some of them occasionaly leaving the group to attack the LT. if 2 mechs attack at the same time (and dont stay together), what chance does the longtom have? he will have to choose one and maybe destroy him, and then get pwned by the otherone.

and finally, yesterday i tried attacking the LT straight on, and when i saw the kill shell incoming i ejected and started harrasing the LT at close range. he first twitched nervously, then ejected and ate my PPC, leaving the longtom to me to RAIN SOME POWER on the enemy team from behind

Your assuming the Long Tom is alone.  From what I have seen, thats never the case.  Typically they have some support units, or canp by there base.  In the latter option, they keep getting fresh support units from people spawning, and any base defense turrets.  If a LT has support, its damn near impossible to kill, and they almost always do.  Even if you get in, it still takes a LONG time to take it out, and by then his friends are on you like white on rice. 

thats just not the scenario i usually see. in marshes they tend to be inside the base because its a small map, and yes they are a big nuisance there, but on the bigger maps they allways roll out and mech usually wont stay for support but rather charge forward and let the longtom barrage from behind.

i do agree that when the longtom has support, its pretty darn hard to kill. i had apc and mech support tonight, and killed quite a few, but a partisan managed to sneak up on us just as our mech died from an enemy LT, and it killed me, the apc, and another longtom before we could react. we were too busy with the mechs in the field.


also, tonight when anyone rode out in a LT the opposing team immediately focused all firepower on it. none lasted long and then we all mostly bought mechs. any LTs on each side got eliminated quick

[Ninjars]

Yeah - OT, it looks like balance is still there, just as it was when people were whining about the BA.  It just takes a readdressing of tactics, and an understanding of what threats there are out there and how to deal with them.

[Pikey]

After being a hater of the LT when it first came out thinking there was no need for it at all I now love it. Its the perfect counter to LRM boaters whilst still being quite easy to take out.

[~SJ~ Blhurr]

After Thursday Long Tom's are not really much of an issue anymore.  Half the enemy team isn't playing them.  I've definitely killed them 2:1 more than they have killed me.  They've made me a better pilot too.  I run passive a lot more and stick to cover as much as possible.

[7.[WD]Ragor]

^Correct me if i'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure 2 Sulla's could have destroyed the long-tom, since one partisan prime isn't too big of a deal, and there is no field repair at the moment. On top of that, it sounds like their team was committing a lot of players/assets towards protecting one unit. Take out that one unit and they are hanging out over there for nothing.
(...)

The main problem was to locate the LT-team in their valley covered with AngelECM. And when you came over the edge surrounding the valley the Atlas and the LT (direct fire) just smashed you.
And two Sullas might have fixed it, yes. Our problem was even to get into position for an assault (with something left to start it). To get there we had to evade one or two (...) missile salvos from the rest of the camping clanners...

[=KoS= Eldragon]

Your assuming the Long Tom is alone.  From what I have seen, thats never the case.  Typically they have some support units, or canp by there base.  In the latter option, they keep getting fresh support units from people spawning, and any base defense turrets.  If a LT has support, its damn near impossible to kill, and they almost always do.  Even if you get in, it still takes a LONG time to take it out, and by then his friends are on you like white on rice.

On some maps I can have my LT halfway inside the hangar and still fire on targets. When I see an aero or enemy mech coming for me I push it into full reverse and am safely inside the hangar when the enemy arrives. Its a dick move, thats for sure.

I have not formed a strong opinion of the LT just yet. But the Long Tom touches on a side issue. Being able to fight from inside your own base. On one hand we have defense turrets to keep people from base raping/spawn camping. On the other hand we have weapons like the arrowIV, ELRM, and Long Tom where using them from inside your base is the ideal strategy. I don't think the game can handle both and still be fun for everyone. If the only change to LT was that they cannot deploy within 200 meters of a hangar it would be an improvement.

[Gibbage]

Just had a little fun on Inferno in a LT, just to check it out first hand.  I gotta say the map is perfect for LT's.  I took out 10 heavy to assault mech's before I ran out of ammo, and I was at the front lines.  I was down a hill side, and the enemy would come in from above.  A single hit took out a Madcat Mk II, same for Atlas.  Near miss took out 2 Warhammers in a single shot, and a few BA's just to add some flavor too the jucy gibbs.  Since I was near the front lines in a group of mech's, I never got hit.  A BA did fine me, but someone picked him off.  I ran over another unlucky BA.  In the end, I ran out of ammo and since there was only 5 mins left in the match, I bailed out and got a nice Madcat Mk II.  I didnt last the remaining 5 mins in that Madcat, but my empty LT was still there, on the front lines..  Its armor needs to be toned down a LOT.  Also its FIREPOWER.  1 hit an Assault mech?  You kidding me?   

[(TLL) Heretic]

Just had a little fun on Inferno in a LT, just to check it out first hand.  I gotta say the map is perfect for LT's.  I took out 10 heavy to assault mech's before I ran out of ammo, and I was at the front lines.  I was down a hill side, and the enemy would come in from above.  A single hit took out a Madcat Mk II, same for Atlas.  Near miss took out 2 Warhammers in a single shot, and a few BA's just to add some flavor too the jucy gibbs.  Since I was near the front lines in a group of mech's, I never got hit.  A BA did fine me, but someone picked him off.  I ran over another unlucky BA.  In the end, I ran out of ammo and since there was only 5 mins left in the match, I bailed out and got a nice Madcat Mk II.  I didnt last the remaining 5 mins in that Madcat, but my empty LT was still there, on the front lines..  Its armor needs to be toned down a LOT.  Also its FIREPOWER.  1 hit an Assault mech?  You kidding me?   

The damage does seem to be very high, I think everyone agrees on that, and the direct-fire capability is wrong too, but I don't think that their implementation is flawed otherwise, I stalked 2 LT on Marshes yesterday with my ELRM Raven, it's a pity that none of my team-mates decided to use my C3 feed to counter the LT, because I ran out of ammo while only bringing one down to about half (they never even knew I was there, just kept relocating every time they heard the LRM warning )....so maybe your right on the armour levels being high, but it is a big expensive target, and I'd expect a thick layer of armour to  cover it's hide so TBH I don't even see that as a significant problem.

[No!Petru]

Stuff

If an opposing team allowed you to sit that close to the front, direct firing and doing that much damage, then they deserve everything they got.

People, no amount of "balance" or changing of game mechanics will account for player stupidity, stubbornnes ("LOLOLOL I HAVE 100k CBILLS I MUST BUY ATLAS!!!11211!"), or a refusal to work as a team.

As for the situation described further up, with a Long Tom hidden under an Atlas AECM, so what? Are you honestly expecting me to believe one Long Tom in a valley could dominate and control an entire team of mechs on Clearcut? With all of it's ridges, new hills and line of sight issues going on?

There is nothing wrong with the Long Tom, just like there was nothing wrong with BAs.  Players just need to adapt, and think rather than just buying the biggest mech they can afford and walking slowly in a straight line towards the enemy.

If you want to talk balance, one serious issue in my opinion was the buff on ACs vs air assets.  They needed it, but imo are TOO good now, so much so that air just isn't a threat anymore, and air being the best counter to artillery....