3rd persion camera

[(TLL)Siilk]

I don't have an issue with having freelook inside of our cockpits.  So long as weapons can only fire to the centerline of the torso (as they currently do when you are locked into first person view) then this works.  The problem is that CryEngine2 doesn't have a clue what to do with freelook and it will make weapons fire in the direction of view, regardless of the surrounding geometry of the vehicle.  If I'm standing with my torso centered to my feet and enter 3rd person to look over my right shoulder, if I fire weapons in this mode the bullets/lasers/etc will be shot out to my right, inconsistent with the geometry of the 'Mech (or any remote relation to reality).  This is a BIG hurdle to overcome code-side and we have a ton of other features begging for attention first.

I think it would be acceptable that firing will be disabled, when in freelook. That way it would be used for a quick glance sideways, not for targeting.

In addition to the above technical hurdle, having freelook in some of the 'Mech cockpits would be more than a tad anti-climatic.  Think about having freelook inside a Novacat or an Awesome.  There isn't a lot of "window" to begin with so you would be constrained to looking at the interior of the cockpit.  Despite claims of "want to see how cool the cockpit looks" I think the novelty will wear off pretty quickly, especially for any vehicles that have non-protruding cockpits.  This makes me (personally) question if the effort required will be justified by the outcome.

About a month ago, there was an idea in cockpit discussion thread, that closed-cockpit mechs could have monitors on the sides of the cockpit, which are feed with side-cameras video stream. If it's hard or impossible, engine-wise, to make such thing, having useless feelook in that mechs wouldn't be that bad to overcome freelook benefits for open-cockpit mechs.
 

There is also the question of how freelook will be handled for non-'Mech vehicles.  For aeros, this could be implemented as a really useful "turning your head" mechanic to see to the sides and above.  For tanks, this gets a little weird because we have camera positions chosen based on optimal gameplay, not head-realistic driver position.  Some would say "put the the camera where the commander/gunner/driver is" but I think the existing position makes the best compromise for having 1 player in a vehicle.  Freelook might give a "side mirror" toggled view, and maybe even a quasi-top-down type view to allow for terrain navigation.

I think freelook could simply be disabled for ground vehicles(except for Svantovit and LT, maybe), as they have enough freedom to observe their surroundings with their free-moving turret. Toggleable rear-view would be ok, though.   
 

As far as a pure 3rd person experience...  hell no.  With all my heart and strength, no.

That's our man!

[MatthewPryde]

You know, there is EH, or enhanced imaging. I was thinking of a way to use crysis' already available resources and still have a way for pilots to get a better view from their cockpits, as completely awesome as cockpit view is. Clans developed this but by our timeless time line this could be a both sides kind of thing. Essentially it would be a 1t component that allows the cockpit to undergo the same filter you use to become invisible in crysis. now, the MECH is not invisible, but your view becomes unobstructed. You can even have a picture in picture of behind you, and above you at the top right and left corners respectively. its not total 360, but it's cannon and it is a lower stress add in for development since new resources would not have to be made.

[Shinikaton]

The way it is now sucks though. Your cross hair follows the 3rd person view which enables you to shoot directly behind you. Yesterday I was running back to base for some repairs and was messing around with the 3rd person view. I fired a volley of missiles while looking at the front of my mech and the missiles fired from out of my back. This enables people to fire their guns at pursuing people.

I have not read the entire thread so sorry if this has been said already.

[Bowrrl]

About a month ago, there was an idea in cockpit discussion thread, that closed-cockpit mechs could have monitors on the sides of the cockpit, which are feed with side-cameras video stream. If it's hard or impossible, engine-wise, to make such thing, having useless feelook in that mechs wouldn't be that bad to overcome freelook benefits for open-cockpit mechs.

I sort of like how some of the cockpits are limiting. It's one of those differences that give each Mech a different "flavor" while piloting them. A more limited window means smaller area to be considered a headshot. On the other end of the spectrum a bigger window means you can see more, but there's a greater chance of being shot in the cockpit. Things like this aren't necessarily all advantage or all disadvantage, but they come together to give each Mech a unique feel that goes beyond "I need X tonnage so I picked this one" and I'm all for that.

Putting cameras around just gives a Mech the advantage of a large cockpit without the disadvantage.

[(TLL)Siilk]

About a month ago, there was an idea in cockpit discussion thread, that closed-cockpit mechs could have monitors on the sides of the cockpit, which are feed with side-cameras video stream. If it's hard or impossible, engine-wise, to make such thing, having useless feelook in that mechs wouldn't be that bad to overcome freelook benefits for open-cockpit mechs.

I sort of like how some of the cockpits are limiting. It's one of those differences that give each Mech a different "flavor" while piloting them. A more limited window means smaller area to be considered a headshot. On the other end of the spectrum a bigger window means you can see more, but there's a greater chance of being shot in the cockpit. Things like this aren't necessarily all advantage or all disadvantage, but they come together to give each Mech a unique feel that goes beyond "I need X tonnage so I picked this one" and I'm all for that.

Putting cameras around just gives a Mech the advantage of a large cockpit without the disadvantage.

Well, if it would be small monitors with low-quality video feed and narrow view angle, open-cockpit mechs would still have the benefit over close cockpit in terms of situational awareness. But anyway, I pointed that idea out only to try to convince KingLeer to reconsider his "anti-cinematic" opinion on freelook for close-cockpit mechs.

[[CW]Aresye]

I actually really like the idea of disabling weapons while in free-look.  If the major hurdle is preventing a person from using the free-look to fire weapons, then a lock should be an easier fix compared to composing an entirely different code.  One major disadvantage is definitely with ASF, because I actually have to put myself in a nose-down attitude to see the battlefield.  If I'm low I don't get much time before I have to fly up.  If I'm high, it's only a matter of time before I end up in the weapons range for AA tanks.  When dogfighting, a simple way of glancing up or over my shoulder can add a much higher degree of realism.  Not to mention skill as well.

[Redvan]

1st person free look TIR support plz

[MagicSquirrel07]

I don't have an issue with having freelook inside of our cockpits.  So long as weapons can only fire to the centerline of the torso (as they currently do when you are locked into first person view) then this works.  The problem is that CryEngine2 doesn't have a clue what to do with freelook and it will make weapons fire in the direction of view, regardless of the surrounding geometry of the vehicle.  If I'm standing with my torso centered to my feet and enter 3rd person to look over my right shoulder, if I fire weapons in this mode the bullets/lasers/etc will be shot out to my right, inconsistent with the geometry of the 'Mech (or any remote relation to reality).  This is a BIG hurdle to overcome code-side and we have a ton of other features begging for attention first.
 
In addition to the above technical hurdle, having freelook in some of the 'Mech cockpits would be more than a tad anti-climatic.  Think about having freelook inside a Novacat or an Awesome.  There isn't a lot of "window" to begin with so you would be constrained to looking at the interior of the cockpit.  Despite claims of "want to see how cool the cockpit looks" I think the novelty will wear off pretty quickly, especially for any vehicles that have non-protruding cockpits.  This makes me (personally) question if the effort required will be justified by the outcome.
 
There is also the question of how freelook will be handled for non-'Mech vehicles.  For aeros, this could be implemented as a really useful "turning your head" mechanic to see to the sides and above.  For tanks, this gets a little weird because we have camera positions chosen based on optimal gameplay, not head-realistic driver position.  Some would say "put the the camera where the commander/gunner/driver is" but I think the existing position makes the best compromise for having 1 player in a vehicle.  Freelook might give a "side mirror" toggled view, and maybe even a quasi-top-down type view to allow for terrain navigation.
 
Regardless of how free look works, it should be a mode that, when toggled, disables your ability to fire weapons.  There should be a transition interval (0.5 sec) when switching.
 
To the last point, I would not mind having some preset cameras that relayed set external views to the cockpit of a 'Mech.  A "leg-centered ground cam" would be useful, as would a "reverse" cam looking straight out of the back of the 'Mech.  In my opinion, these views would be toggled through on a sub-monitor.  With the addition of a sub-monitor, we could introduce things like gun-camera, remote camera drones, shared camera for commander view, etc.
 
As far as a pure 3rd person experience...  hell no.  With all my heart and strength, no.

Third and last time i'm going to try and write this on my phone...
1)i have always played third person in mech games before, however being forced into 1st person i actually think makes the game more fun.
2)i really like the camera idea. I would especially like it implemented with damage models. Say critical damage to rear armor you lose your rear camera for simplicity.
3) i'd really like vtols / planes to have a seperate aiming view from the piloting. Maybe a downwards / forward facing camera at 45 degrees so you can hover in place and shoot

[(TLL)Siilk]

2)i really like the camera idea. I would especially like it implemented with damage models. Say critical damage to rear armor you lose your rear camera for simplicity.

 A good idea. And we could finally have some drawbacks for left/right torso destruction, if side cameras go offline after that.

3) i'd really like vtols / planes to have a seperate aiming view from the piloting. Maybe a downwards / forward facing camera at 45 degrees so you can hover in place and shoot

 Interesting, but with so much LRM configs for aeros and vtols this could make using them too easy. They aren't that hard to fly as it is. I think cockpit freelook would be enough for them.
 

[Profane Arbiter]

About a month ago, there was an idea in cockpit discussion thread, that closed-cockpit mechs could have monitors on the sides of the cockpit, which are feed with side-cameras video stream. If it's hard or impossible, engine-wise, to make such thing, having useless feelook in that mechs wouldn't be that bad to overcome freelook benefits for open-cockpit mechs.

I sort of like how some of the cockpits are limiting. It's one of those differences that give each Mech a different "flavor" while piloting them.

I typically agree, though I think the Mauler's cockpit has a bit too much "flavor" and could use a redesign. At the wrong angles, your view of targets can be far too easily obstructed.

[StuKa]

Guys, one thing I never understood: Is it so difficult simply to say: "hey, I dont like 3rd/1st, but if you like it, why not, go ahead?"

To me it seems that people simply need an excuse for sucking at the respective other view than their favourite one. I havent yet witnessed a single 1st player bitching hard about 3rd who didnt at the same time suck poorly at 3rd; same goes for 3rd players bitching about 1st view without difference. Could there be a connection between sucking and bitching? Naaaaaaaaa.......

Me for my part, although I would consider myself rather a 3rd player, Ive always played both 3rd and 1st - how can you be good if you still suck at 50% of the game? Alright, for me the result is that now, I suck at both styles... but that in turn allows me to bitch about 1st AND 3rd simultaneously, doesnt it...
 
Notwithstanding, 3rd offers one or another additional tactics - as it actually IS a tactic to make use of its advantages. And you dont get stuck in things so easily, which at the moment actually is a big issue in this mod.

However, I regard 1st big fun as well, way more realistic and it can indeed be cool to forget about that view-over-the-hill thingy for a while... so I would never say one of the two views is the only real one, both have their justification, pros and cons. To make this clear, I would as well hate to see 1st view being taken away from MW. Have all you 1st players ever thought about what you would say if a bunch of 3rd players would make a brand new, great mod like MWLL, but exclude 1st? Would suck, wouldnt it? Now, why do the same with 3rd?

Aside from the backwards firing issue (if it cant be solved, than it cant be solved), why limit the game to one playstyle and force everyone to your favourite style? Do you fear too many servers could become 3rd? And if, wouldnt there be a reason?

as I said, no offence intended, I simply dont understand such intolerance - and again, same goes for 3rds who disrespect 1st players.

[Redvan]

Guys, one thing I never understood: Is it so difficult simply to say: "hey, I dont like 3rd/1st, but if you like it, why not, go ahead?"

To me it seems that people simply need an excuse for sucking at the respective other view than their favourite one. I havent yet witnessed a single 1st player bitching hard about 3rd who didnt at the same time suck poorly at 3rd; same goes for 3rd players bitching about 1st view without difference. Could there be a connection between sucking and bitching? Naaaaaaaaa.......

Me for my part, although I would consider myself rather a 3rd player, Ive always played both 3rd and 1st - how can you be good if you still suck at 50% of the game? Alright, for me the result is that now, I suck at both styles... but that in turn allows me to bitch about 1st AND 3rd simultaneously, doesnt it...
 
Notwithstanding, 3rd offers one or another additional tactics - as it actually IS a tactic to make use of its advantages. And you dont get stuck in things so easily, which at the moment actually is a big issue in this mod.

However, I regard 1st big fun as well, way more realistic and it can indeed be cool to forget about that view-over-the-hill thingy for a while... so I would never say one of the two views is the only real one, both have their justification, pros and cons. To make this clear, I would as well hate to see 1st view being taken away from MW. Have all you 1st players ever thought about what you would say if a bunch of 3rd players would make a brand new, great mod like MWLL, but exclude 1st? Would suck, wouldnt it? Now, why do the same with 3rd?

Aside from the backwards firing issue (if it cant be solved, than it cant be solved), why limit the game to one playstyle and force everyone to your favourite style? Do you fear too many servers could become 3rd? And if, wouldnt there be a reason?

as I said, no offence intended, I simply dont understand such intolerance - and again, same goes for 3rds who disrespect 1st players.

Well, if you can play in first, then you wont have a problem playing in third.  It's not that different.  So to say someone that plays in only one of the two views has nothing to do with "sucking at 50% of the game".

it is not a matter of difference.  It's a matter of the people that use 3rd person are able to use it to peek around cover without exposing themselves, thus giving them a huge and unfair advantage.  And no, it's not a tactic to make use of its advantages... its a crutch.

Yes, I've refused games simply on the fact that they don't offer 1st person views.  The very first thing I hated about Global Agenda (from way back in Alpha) was the lack of first person.  It's not that I couldn't play as 3rd person, I could, and it was quite easy in fact.  It's that retarded ability to look around corners w/o exposing yourself.  It degrades the skill level required to play a game, which is ultimately why I don't play GA.  Little skill required.

Really, if you want 3rd, go play a MMO.  You don't need to aim in those, so there's no problem with 3rd.

[Taemien]

If you need to look over a hill, jump over it or walk over it.

As one of the Devs said, this mod is about dealing damage. Get your mech over the hill and kill something. None of this sneaking around 'I can see you but you can't see me' BS. Get your butt up there and fight it out.

[Flyingdebris]

i don't suck at 3rd person, i just would rather not use it.  its an immersion killer for me.  The only exception so far has been dead space, but only because their GUI and the way info was presented to the player had enough immersive elements to counteract the "meh" of 3rd person.

i want to see through the pilot's eyes, no matter how constrained, rather than look at some robot's ass, while i'm fighting.

[Brainwright]

As I noted above, it would be cool, but we don't model our mechs with that much range of motion in-mind. I model to avoid clipping geometry.

Does that mean they'll never be modeled in that way?