i do fear...

[Redvan]

LRMs are still quite a bit too easy.

I was using a MKII Prime vs somethin or other with AMS on it, and it was still easy as heck.  I'd still like to see the actual LRM user have to use a bit more skill to be rewarded, rather than just trying to make LRMs less effective by adding an AMS.

For people that sit in the rear of battle (the LRM boaters), they should have to work to get their points, since they're generally always out of harms way.

[SquareSphere }12thVR{]

sooo.... what do you suggest?  I liked the old MW3 method of units with ECMs actually caused longer lock times.   But honestly, with the Tom in game, it's much more dangerous to play LRMs.

[KingLeerUK]

I'm finding that AMS is reasonably effective as a single unit.  If I launch a single rack of LRM10 at somone I might get 2 missiles through.  However, if I'm kitting out with a Vulture C and toting 4x LRM20 into battle, my expectation is that I'll punch through more than 20% of my missiles (and I do).
 
Sadly, one of the best counters to "LRM boaters" that tend to stand still on their backline is aerospace and VTOLs.  My (personal) feeling is that some of the AA weapons (RAC2 Partisan) and the additional AA-enabled MGs on the APC have marginalised the contribution of aerospace in countering "boats".  As an aero or VTOL, the juiciest targets are the ones that are standing still.  If you have a couple of LRM "boats" standing in their backline with a RAC2 Partisan escort they are basically unassailable, as trying to line up for a stable incoming lock-on with that thing around is suicide.  (sorry for the slight topic deviation)
 
But, back to AMS,  one unit used singly is reasonably effective, but you stand a couple of AMS-equipped units together... only most most savage LRM onslaught will get missiles through.  The other day I was running an APC on Marshes and I would follow my teammates around to give them some anti-missile cover.  When I happened to be following the dual-AMS Atlas, he was nearly untouchable!

[Ninjars]

LRMs are still quite a bit too easy.

I was using a MKII Prime vs somethin or other with AMS on it, and it was still easy as heck.  I'd still like to see the actual LRM user have to use a bit more skill to be rewarded, rather than just trying to make LRMs less effective by adding an AMS.

For people that sit in the rear of battle (the LRM boaters), they should have to work to get their points, since they're generally always out of harms way.

How hard can it be to get a radar lock and let the eagles soar?  Not everyone has to blitz into melee to take aim at legs.

Making missiles more in-depth to use could be cool however - targeting computer to lock specific components would be one.  I'm just not sure how much you can do to make it more sophisticated. 

Basically the entire point of missile boats is for something simple but dangerous.  Artillery never is all that hard to use.

Long Toms and AMS, coupled with peoples' tendencies to be more cautious and to use passive more often all make missilers' lives a bit more difficult, as do the competent map revisions.  They don't need further nerfing - not now, at least.

[=]FC[=Striker]

Another assessment of how much ammo the missile boats have might be in order. Missile boats are extremely effective and should remain that way, but as a support asset the missile boats could probably have to contend with ammo issues for sustained effectiveness. I will say that missiles can stand a chance of being ineffective against a laterally moving light or medium 'Mech and AMS only adds to this. I even see Heavy 'Mechs barely getting peppered if they are moving laterally at a good clip. Missile effectiveness overall seems to really be limited to stationary targets or those that are moving directly at the individual that fired.

Striker

[Redvan]

see, i'm in the opinion that missile boats should be less effective and should only be effective when backed by a well organized team, ie, tag'ing and narc'ing.  If a target isn't tagged or narc'd, then it should be much harder for a boat to be effective.  The reason i think they shouldn't be effective is because it's super easy to use.  Something so easy to use shouldn't be so effective.  They sit still, make a circle turn red, then click a mouse button.   

I know the Long Tom is supposed to be super awesome vs boaters, because boaters just sit there and fire and fire and fire.... the problem is, the long tom is a new favorite of boaters to use.  Long Toms just sit in the back, lobbing shells, except now, we dont even get a missile lock, we just lose 80% of our health unexpectedly.  So imho, Long Tom is just another boat.

VTOLs and Aeros, yeah, they can be useful vs boats, but there are none on marshes, and the maps that they are on, they're easy to shoot down anyway (still scat priming the hell out of anything in the air).  And yeah, with the increased AA efficiency, VTOLs and Aeros have an even harder time now.



Really what I'd like to see is the actual process of getting a lock with no team aid (tag or narc) being much harder.  The problem is, it's inherently easy.  We've discussed in past threads the possibility of increasing the time it takes to lock, giving an alert tone when someone has a yellow lock on you, then a different tone when someone has a hard lock on you, gosh... cant remember everything...  dont allow LRMs to detonate within X seconds of being launched (no more tipping the head down to spam LRMs at someone right next to you)....

my personal favorite idea is a chaff/flare dispenser.  It'd be manually actuated, and have limited supplies, but would guide away 100% of missiles if timed right.  That would keep it from being too easy to use (fire them off too soon and the missiles would be able to discern between the distraction and the mech), and too late, well, the missiles would be past the distraction already so they'd hit you.  Limited supplies means you still need to use your terrain to conserve your supply, so the LRM boat would still have a chance at you when you run out.

The C/F countermeasure system would not only distract missiles locked on you, but can be launched to distract missiles guided on a nearby friendly (within a certain range).

[Freakazoid]

I was using a MKII Prime

Well there's your problem. The most expensive mech deserves to have some missles land.

[Redvan]

I was using a MKII Prime

Well there's your problem. The most expensive mech deserves to have some missles land.

no...  it happens on all mechs, its just the more expensive mechs last longer...

anyway, another thing that may help is a faster acceleration for mechs.

[RabbidFerret]

I was using a MKII Prime

And stealing all my kills! 

anyway, another thing that may help is a faster acceleration for mechs.

I agree with this 100%. I never remember having to fight this much with a mech to get it moving in any previous game. I've gotten used to it now but for the first few times I was struggling like hell to go from forward to full reverse. It felt like trying to get a train to move.

[Infinite o0o]

i don't think there's really anything wrong with the LRMs, they SHOULD be easy to use. ie. lock the target, fire and forget. this is how it works in the 21st centruy, and seeing as we've got advanced bipedal war machines here, i expect nothing less from that kind of missile technology.

[Redvan]

i don't think there's really anything wrong with the LRMs, they SHOULD be easy to use. ie. lock the target, fire and forget. this is how it works in the 21st centruy, and seeing as we've got advanced bipedal war machines here, i expect nothing less from that kind of missile technology.

please realize, i care more about good gameplay than i care about realism and this thing called "lore".  Just an fyi.

[Tsorevitch]

please realize, i care more about good gameplay than i care about realism and this thing called "lore".  Just an fyi.

Good gameplay not equals close combat only.  LRMs are wasn't a miracle superweapon in 0.1 and AMS in 0.2 nerfed it even more.

[Shakes]

Ill maintain what I said (and others agreed on) in Temphages weapons thread:

LRMs are not overpowered, they are just easy to use. There is a difference.

Until any of you show some actual in game testing showing LRMS actually doing more and more effective damage than their equal tonnage in PPC or Gauss then you are not going to convince a lot of people.

If I take out my full LRM loaded vulture I WILL find it easier to use than my full Gauss vulture (particularly if there are good TAG/Narc'ers on the field) but in a 1 on 1 situation id MUCH prefer the full gauss vulture for taking out a single mech in almost all situations. Will it require more of my skill? Yes. Will it be more effective in destroying my opponent? Almost definitely. Can AMS stop it? Hell no. Same goes for a full PPC vulture if one existed.

Let the noobs be noobs people, some always will be. Having said that there should be and are situations where LRM work well tactically, even by people with the skill to use other weapons.

[(TLL)Siilk]

Ill maintain what I said (and others agreed on) in Temphages weapons thread:

LRMs are not overpowered, they are just easy to use. There is a difference.

Until any of you show some actual in game testing showing LRMS actually doing more and more effective damage than their equal tonnage in PPC or Gauss then you are not going to convince a lot of people.

If I take out my full LRM loaded vulture I WILL find it easier to use than my full Gauss vulture (particularly if there are good TAG/Narc'ers on the field) but in a 1 on 1 situation id MUCH prefer the full gauss vulture for taking out a single mech in almost all situations. Will it require more of my skill? Yes. Will it be more effective in destroying my opponent? Almost definitely. Can AMS stop it? Hell no. Same goes for a full PPC vulture if one existed.

Let the noobs be noobs people, some always will be. Having said that there should be and are situations where LRM work well tactically, even by people with the skill to use other weapons.

qft

[rgreat]

I liked the old MW3 method of units with ECMs actually caused longer lock times

THIS!