LRM Spammers become more and more frustrating

[warmachine79]

Ok, what can I do for not getting hit by LRMs? I ALWAYS run around with my radar off and currently I only buy mechs with AMS. Still I keep getting killed by missile campers. Why can I be shot at although my radar is off? If the devs lack the courage to weaken the LRMs, the mod will die which would be very sad since it is the mod the most potential out there. I don't read any battletech books, maybe the rockets ARE strong in those books but does the game have to stick so close to the books, even at the price of the game being partially UNPLAYABLE even on a melee map like marshes? So, my suggestions:
1) Make mechs with radar turned off unlockable by missiles. So, the LRM campers have to shoot at each other like an artillery duel or something (radar needs to be on to lock missiles)
2) Just make the missiles do less damage. Missiles are the easiest weapon to use, the ease of use must have disadvantages in terms of damage. I can't understand why a weapon that a) deals out a lot of damage b) on a range greater than any other mech-mounted weapon c) is the weapon that is easiest to use. This CAN'T work in terms of balance.
3) Make at least ONE Weapon with a larger Range than LRMs. LRMs do lock, you don't have to aim, they deal out an astonishing amount of damage at an impressive range - so there is no reason not to make a "Counterweapon". Just increase the range of Gauss or PPC so it can outrange the LRMs.
4) All of the above
Do you guys have an idea how FRUSTRATING this game is for beginners? Many people don't get behind how great and outstanding this mod is because they play it just for 10 minutes (in case they manage to create a working gamespy account, but that's another showstopper), get LRM'ed three times, Long Tom'ed two times --> Uninstall. This is the greatest mod I have seen in the last 15 years, please don't let it go down just because you want to stick to the battletech-books too close. One can write whatever he wants in a book, that doesn't mean that this would work in a computergame in terms of balance. 

[[MPB]OM_Sannyasi]

stay near cover and use jumpjets last minute to avoid them- i rarely have trouble with lrm campers- easy to counter

[warmachine79]

Yeah, sandblasted is so full of cover...and all mechs have jumpjets. What is wrong with my arguments that LRMs a) deal a lot of damage b) at a lot of metres c) with a lot of comfort?

[(TLL)martinroshak]

I like taking MASC mechs with high close range damage and run perpendicular to the missile fire.  Your speed will be greater than the missile turn rate and they won't be able to hit you.  Works excellently in the Osiris B and effectively in Shadow Cats.  Missiles are meant to dominate in my opinion, they ARE easy weapons to use.  Building strategies to avoid them is the counter, not making another weapon more powerful.  Speed and maneuver are the best ways to counter them on an open field.  Going passive only works if you're hidden from view to begin with, otherwise you've got no chance of sneaking up on them.

stay near cover and use jumpjets last minute to avoid them- i rarely have trouble with lrm campers- easy to counter

Thanks for the Jump jet suggestion there... should do that more myself xD

[DFDelta]

stay near cover and use jumpjets last minute to avoid them- i rarely have trouble with lrm campers- easy to counter

For us, because we know how to do it.
But warmachine is right in one point. A new guy who just downloaded this mod, has absolutely no idea what he is doing and gets artillery-killed 10 times in the first 15 minutes will likely be so frustrated that he quits.
There is just a big difference if you (as a newbie) get killed by someone in a direct engegement in close or mid-range, or if you get chopped into pieces by some unseen power 3 hills further away.

[warmachine79]

Missiles are meant to dominate in my opinion, they ARE easy weapons to use.  Building strategies to avoid them is the counter, not making another weapon more powerful.

With that, you can justify any unbalance. ""X" is meant to dominate, build a strategy to avoid it". "Strategy" is not a counter to a single thread, "Strategy" is understanding a scissors/paper/rock-system and then "playing the piano".
In my opinion, missiles should be a weapon like every other weapon (am I wrong with that?) - with advantages and disadvantages, with weapons they are strong against and other weapons they are weak against - it is "Mechwarrior" not "Missilewarrior". Okay, maybe the devs will correct me and agree with you and say "Yes, missiles are meant to dominate, all other weapons are just there to make the game look tricky". But I don't think that "missiles are meant to dominate". A Heavy Gauss is meant to dominate, that is why it reloads slow as crap, has lower range, is available on only three (?) mechs and needs a magazine reload every 4 rounds, a powerful, devastating weapon - BUT it has major drawbacks, major drawbacks which the missiles lack of.

[OnLashoc]

I remember conversations like this in MW4 lol

Seriously, use cover and stay radar off. Only go hot when you need to and only so often. Keep moving around from cover to cover. I can count on 1 hound how many times I been hit with Artillery, however missles are irritating just like they are in MW4. This is where teamwork comes into play. Get a Arty of your own and some missle boats, have someone be a narc'er / tagger and light them up.

This actually gives me confidence that the patch is on the right track. Now people are getting over the bull rush to where now tactics and stealth is kicking in. I hate missles just like the next guy but they have their time and place. This is really encouraging, cause MW4 seen the same progression. It is only a matter of time when the strong will start to seperate themselves from the weak.

[warmachine79]

I remember conversations like this in MW4 lol

Seriously, use cover and stay radar off. Only go hot when you need to and only so often. Keep moving around from cover to cover. I can count on 1 hound how many times I been hit with Artillery, however missles are irritating just like they are in MW4. This is where teamwork comes into play. Get a Arty of your own and some missle boats, have someone be a narc'er / tagger and light them up.

This actually gives me confidence that the patch is on the right track. Now people are getting over the bull rush to where now tactics and stealth is kicking in. I hate missles just like the next guy but they have their time and place. This is really encouraging, cause MW4 seen the same progression. It is only a matter of time when the strong will start to seperate themselves from the weak.

As I mentioned, it helps shit to keep the radar off. Just brings the frustration 5 seconds later.

[OnLashoc]

Missiles are meant to dominate in my opinion, they ARE easy weapons to use.  Building strategies to avoid them is the counter, not making another weapon more powerful.

With that, you can justify any unbalance. ""X" is meant to dominate, build a strategy to avoid it". "Strategy" is not a counter to a single thread, "Strategy" is understanding a scissors/paper/rock-system and then "playing the piano".
In my opinion, missiles should be a weapon like every other weapon (am I wrong with that?) - with advantages and disadvantages, with weapons they are strong against and other weapons they are weak against - it is "Mechwarrior" not "Missilewarrior". Okay, maybe the devs will correct me and agree with you and say "Yes, missiles are meant to dominate, all other weapons are just there to make the game look tricky". But I don't think that "missiles are meant to dominate". A Heavy Gauss is meant to dominate, that is why it reloads slow as crap, has lower range, is available on only three (?) mechs and needs a magazine reload every 4 rounds, a powerful, devastating weapon - BUT it has major drawbacks, major drawbacks which the missiles lack of.

Warmachine, missle have one VERY big draw back, actually a couple.

A. They suck BAAAAAD at close range, so little mechs will light them up quite easliy. Last night in my Hollander 2 I don't know how many kills on missleboats I got with 1, yes "1" weapon.

B. They gotta see you to lock on you, or you gotta be narc'd.

That is where like I said teamwork comes into play. Now if you are interested in joining a team Legacy @ http://mwlegacy.com/home/news.php is recruiting. Dont mind the page I had taken it down when I left for military training, but I am back now and so I started the site from scratch, it's still a work in progress. Being on a team that communicates works much better then running around rogue.

[Dragonlord]

I'm gonna side with the OP here, I have noticed the same thing.
I have been locked on by missile campers even when I'm supposedly behind cover.
The problems here is that they seem to be able to lock on to you almost no matter where you are.
As for using JJ's at the last moment to avoid them, you are missing to important aspects.

1. Not all mechs have JJ's and can jump to avoid missiles.
2. Tanks dont have JJ's, and some of them as so slow they have very small chances of getting across open ground before getting spammed with missiles from every direction.
Unless you wanna add JJ's to tanks as well? I sure hope not.

And then of course you have those annoying little things called TAG and NARC, with these the missiles boats dont need a lock, they can just fire off a salvo in the direction of the beacon and the missiles will automatically lock on in flight.

They may be easy to counter for an experienced player who know what to do and how, but for new players it can be a real pain.
Even though I'm a seasoned MW player myself, played MW4 and mercs for 4 years, I still have problems avoiding them at times

Sometimes you have to move across open terrain, and if you're in a slow moving vehicle you're that much more of a target for the campers,
And even with radar off they seem to be able to locate you with pinpoint accuracy, and how they do it are still a mystery to me.

against a salvo of 2x20 LRMs the AMS becomes virtually useless as it will at most be able to shoot down 1/3 of the incoming missiles, leaving you open for the remaining 2/3 which does serious amounts of damage.

[warmachine79]

Missiles are meant to dominate in my opinion, they ARE easy weapons to use.  Building strategies to avoid them is the counter, not making another weapon more powerful.

With that, you can justify any unbalance. ""X" is meant to dominate, build a strategy to avoid it". "Strategy" is not a counter to a single thread, "Strategy" is understanding a scissors/paper/rock-system and then "playing the piano".
In my opinion, missiles should be a weapon like every other weapon (am I wrong with that?) - with advantages and disadvantages, with weapons they are strong against and other weapons they are weak against - it is "Mechwarrior" not "Missilewarrior". Okay, maybe the devs will correct me and agree with you and say "Yes, missiles are meant to dominate, all other weapons are just there to make the game look tricky". But I don't think that "missiles are meant to dominate". A Heavy Gauss is meant to dominate, that is why it reloads slow as crap, has lower range, is available on only three (?) mechs and needs a magazine reload every 4 rounds, a powerful, devastating weapon - BUT it has major drawbacks, major drawbacks which the missiles lack of.

Warmachine, missle have one VERY big draw back, actually a couple.

A. They suck BAAAAAD at close range, so little mechs will light them up quite easliy. Last night in my Hollander 2 I don't know how many kills on missleboats I got with 1, yes "1" weapon.

B. They gotta see you to lock on you, or you gotta be narc'd.

That is where like I said teamwork comes into play. Now if you are interested in joining a team Legacy @ http://mwlegacy.com/home/news.php is recruiting. Dont mind the page I had taken it down when I left for military training, but I am back now and so I started the site from scratch, it's still a work in progress. Being on a team that communicates works much better then running around rogue.

You are right, those ARE drawbacks - but come on, these are minor drawbacks. It's like moaning about that there is no gold dust on my caviar. Another good example is marshes. Devs correct me if I am wrong, but marshes looks like it is intended to be a melee map. Although a melee map, missile boats are very popular on this map. Even on marshes they see you sooner or later (as mentioned, my radar is switched off in the hangar, not a second later). Great, they suck at close range. It is a 650 meter gap where they kill you 10 times.  And instead of making teamwork necessary to avoid missiles they should make teamwork necessary for missiles to hit. So maybe taking away the lock capability is another possibility (might also be a way for the long toms, an old game called "Starsiege Tribes" had a very cool way to make mortars work).

Ah, and by the way: game became much more fun since aircraftspamming stopped. So the way the patch corrected aircrafts should be a good guildeline on how to deal with the LRMs. I already stopped playing 0.1.0 but with 0.2.0 released, I play every day again.

[OnLashoc]

I think you guys are missing the point. Anyone can spam one type of weapon effectively with skill. I was in a missle boater as well last night to see the hype. Did I do well? Yea I did pretty good at a K/D ratio of 9-6, but in my Holly 2 with the 1 weapon I was 14-4.

If you are in a big fat slow tank or mech, do NOT run out into open, it's that easy. Believe me guys this is comming from someone who absolutely hates the things, but I wouldn't want them removed or nerfed cause omfghax I can't run around in the open to get close enough to use my weapons.

That is the whole point!!! Seriously, use cover and stay radar off. It works trust me, I did it all night last night along with my teammate and we were #1-3 the whole time working together raping plently of missle boaters in 3 back to back maps on the TLL server and I forget the other.

[Snowball]

I think its important to note that passive radar isn't always the best idea.

I'd like to think that I'm fairly proficient at this game, so I'll throw in some things I've learned.

1) I know it's been said before, but cover is important.  What most people don't realize is that the type of cover is equally important.  You need to know where the missiles are coming from in order to properly use cover, and you need to know what cover your Mech can fit behind.  A small column of rock might be enough to hide a Raven, but a Thanatos just looks stupid trying to hide behind it.  Also, the same pillar might be good against missiles coming from in front of you, but won't do shit if the boater is on your sides.

2) Passive radar can make you harder to find, but most boats have some sort of active radar probe.  Passive doesn't mean invisible, and if you run around in the open with passive, your still gonna get spotted and destroyed without even knowing what hit you.  Active is important to use, but only in short pulses.  Again, you need to know where missiles are coming from in order to take cover against them.

3)Move as a group.  Everyone loves to pick on that one guy by himself, don't be that guy.  Keep in mind that missiles need a lock to fire, and with several mechs moving quickly through cover, boaters will often panic and not be able to get a good lock.

4) This kinda goes with number three.  Work as a team: if you get hit by lrms, call it out to your teammates.  Try to get grids and maybe even the type of boat.  Roll out Missile boat counters like ELRM's, Long Toms, and Aeros.  Do it yourself if you have to, don't just wait for someone to solve the problem for you.

Also, note that on most boats, the launchers themselves are very vulnerable.  ERPPC's, Gauss, and AC's can hit beyond their stated range, and the ERLBL is only 200m short and perfectly accurate.  Take out the launchers on that catapult and what's it gonna do?  Blow the leg of that vulture and render it relatively useless, 4 LRM20's don't work to well when you can't see shit cap'n.

[OnLashoc]

Totally agree with Snowball! You made me smile


Please read this thread looks like an interesting conversation took place and I missed it http://www.mechlivinglegends.net/forum/index.php/topic,7975.0.html

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