The formerly dreaded aero.

[Nakor]

Since the last patch I haven't really seen much in the way of discussion about aircraft so I thought I'd start one for the sake of feedback, since some pretty major changes went in for aircraft last patch.  If this stuff has already been brought up and hashed out, feel free to disregard this..
It seems to me that aircraft have been rendered basically worthless through a combination of 1. Changes too the flight model and 2. the way that AA works now.  I really enjoyed the flight aspect of this game and I think it has an important part too play in that it acts as a strong deterrent too the missile boating, jump sniping nonsense that people have been complaining about lately.. Anybody else notice how that increased after air got nerf'd?

1. Basically anyone with a rac or ac can annihilate any aircraft in about two seconds.  When combined with the effectively unlimited range of Ac's... it makes being effective with aircraft pretty much impossible.  You take incredible amounts of damage, you can be hit from anywhere that you can be seen.. This is compounded by the fact that the 4AC partisan is a starter vehicle and a powerful one at that.  I would be OK with a dedicated anti-air tank that ripped aircraft into confetti buts its kind of ridiculous that it is so effective against every unit type except for assault mechs..

2. I've noticed that the sulla and Shiva seem to loose altitude much more quickly while making strafing runs, as though they were following more of a ballistic trajectory than moving in a straight line - if that makes sense.  This has the effect of making the plane very difficult to control at low altitudes, - in regard too not crashing - which forces you UP and makes issue number one that much worse..  That being said, I absolutely love what has been done with the VTOL controls, good work there.  I've also had problems controlling the Sulla due to its increased speed, but it seems to me like that is more of a failing on my end so call that one a wash, although it could up the learning curb for noobs.. But they don't need to be flying anyway :-P

[^sPikE-]

+1 to this. i used to only fly planes and nothing else, now they are more or less useless. even though i know how to fly and avoid enemy fire, as soon as someone spots me im dead before i can get into range or launch a NARC. if i fly low i crash much more often then before, making my score go into minus, and forcing me not to use Aero. the VTOL however is amazing now.

i think it was also easier to steady the aim to acquire target in the previous version.

[SquareSphere }12thVR{]

I only fly shiva's when a Tom needs to be taken out or later in game when there's less AA cause everyone is running around in heavier mechs.

I'll still fly VTOL whenever I feel like it though

[Remove]

As it's primarily a mech based game, I like that the aeros got nerfed.

[whitedrake 1FSAC]

the biggest problem i had with aero was the mech's inability to look up..   allot of mechs have the weps to shoot back but i get screwed because some plane is hovering over head..

good nerf i say,.

[Cujo]

It's all dynamic right now (balance), and probably will be changed later, now that the two extremes are known, it'll be easier to find the middle ground.  Btw, planes don't hover, vtols do however, that's why you have AA tanks that can look straight up, NOT Mechs, Mechs are primarily designed to combat land vehicles, I have no issue whatsoever with their limited look angle, and I almost never fly.

[Galaxy613]

I love it how people don't want this to be combined arms at all. We've been getting pure mech games for awhile with only special occurances of vechicles. We finally get a game that allows us to play Battletech vehicles and then people don't want them at all! Nevermind that in the BT universe Tanks, Aerospace, and VTOLs are far more likely on the field of battle than mechs would be. I haven't even seen a custom map with aero or VTOLs available.

Oh well, I'm sure after awhile people will get what they want and they'll just take out aerospace fighters altogether.

[AlfalphaCat]

one: this is not a just a Mech game, if it wasn't for aeros, tanks, and BA this mod wouldn't be half as good as it is now.
B: all i think needs be done is take the damage to aircraft from AC's to some middle ground from how they are now and how they were before.  They did need a buff, but not as much as it is now.

P.s mechs can now crouch, so looking up is now an option, though still no where near as high as most tanks. Just push L-Cntrl.

[~SJ~ Xarg Talasko]

I'd be a bit more sympathetic to a survival boost for aerospace assets if some of them didn't disregard the teamwork notion. By this, I mean the narc/tbolt sulla. Personally, I think it shouldn't have the narc beacon. It becomes a one man army, in that it needs no assistance what-so-ever to deliver very accurate tbolt devastation on most targets. Further more, by having a Narc, it's giving assistance out, meaning its a one man army that enables lrm/arrow spam by other ranged players on it's team.

I'd support a manouevering/survival upgrade for this asset if it lost some of it's autonomy. Wanna destroy most lights in 1 hit, devastate tanks and mediums, and really hurt heavy and assaults? Get someone else to lay a narc/tag for you. Being able to do it all yourself detracts from the teamwork aspect of the mod, I feel.

[Beeblebrx]

I agree that aero balancing act went probably a bit too far. I haven't been worried about aeros when I'm piloting mechs since 0.2.0 was released and when I'm in one (and I often am) I feel I stay alive only until I annoy someone enough and he decides to swat me down like an annoying fly.

I don't think this is a game breaking problem and I don't want aeros to dominate the battlefield. But I would give them a little survival boost, too.

[~SJ~ Xarg Talasko]

The way I see it, you remove the Narc from the Tbolt Sulla (nerf 1 variant), then give the Sulla an armour/turning boost (buff 4 variants) and you kill 2 birds with 1 stone, because the Tbolt Sulla will require teamwork to use beyond dumbfiring at stationary targets, and every variant of the plane becomes more useful in terms of battlefield longevity.

[(TLL)Siilk]

 After trying to play all-aero recently, I could say, that aero and vtols could survive for a long time and be effective in combat, if played correctly. Don't press the enemy too far, don't attack AA units directly, especially if they see your, use your speed and maneuverability for your advantage. It sounds like basic flying tips, but I was surprised how my effectiveness and survival time had increased, after I began to follow this rules to the point. Also, any flyboy should consider using a joystick for piloting, as it makes flying and targeting much easier and intuitive.

 As for armor buff, I think it's not really necessary. Maybe Shiva could use some more armor, as it's relatively slow and has a big profile, but sulla and hawkmoth armor levels seem ok for me. I remember being shot down much faster in sturdy but slow 0.1.0 sullas, as GRifles and LBLs was of much more threat for them.
 

[SquareSphere }12thVR{]

^ agree with Siilk, Aero's are fine as is it's just that there are less air jockies than before because they haven't gotten the new handling down.  I haven't had much troubles maintaining my roll as a ASF/VTOL pilot. 

In actuality, since people are getting used to less air assets, it makes my time in said assets even more valuable

[=KoS=Zeus]

The problem with Aero is as one of the above posters mentioned, unless I'm in an AA or another Aero, chances are I can't even return fire on the enemy. This to me is a large imbalance. Give the mechs the ability to engage aero, just don't give them the best weapons to do so with, at least then I'll feel like I can do something about the guy raining LRMs into me or dropping T-bolts or Fire Bombs.

The example I have used to explain this problem is as follows.

Pretend you have two teams fighting, one team is balanced between all assets, the other goes all in one single asset.

In about every case I can think of, the balanced team wins, with the exception being against an all ASF team. The reason for this; 90% of your team simply cannot even engage the ASFs, so once the AA assets are dead, that's it.

This is the inherent flaw I see and am pointing out. I'm not saying ASF do too much damage, or aren't tough enough, I'm saying from a fundamental standpoint of game play that the ASF is the pink elephant in the room. It doesn't fit the mold that the rest of the units in the game do. So if it needs to be rebalanced, do so, but balance it around the idea that everything has a chance of engaging it.

[SquareSphere }12thVR{]

Before the last patch i would agree that 100%ASF force would beat a balanced one.  However with the buff to AC2 and 5's (not to mention people finding about the harasser C) versus ASF this patch has greatly reduced ASF dominance to what I consider a manageable level.