place to post about piracy and such.

[HAARP]

Theft removes the original. Piracy does not. Your argument is, once again, invalid.

Besides, you're in no position to judge this. Go back to your troll cave.

Kinda mood statement HAARP! Here I thought you were older than going that way?

Software Piracy is acquiring data via so-called illegal means, that is in the words of the companies equal to Theft, thus your argument is inferior.

He is saying that pirates are stealing property, implying they are hurting the companies that produce the software. This is not the case, since it's highly doubtful that pirates would buy the software if they didn't have the opportunity to pirate it.
I'm not trying to play the "You call it this, I call it that" game. Sorry if that confused you

[(TLL)KitLightning]

Piracy has always been part of companies way of survival, that the consumer takes up that attitude does not hurt the company nor can it if the company is well organized and has a healthy approach towards the consumer market. Did it hurt Microsoft stealing code bits in its early days, no! Does it hurt Microsoft now, no, thou they now have the power to buying out and limiting other companies ability to get into an ever growing monopolised market.

[CHHs Cyan]

ratbuddy clearly hasnt read the posts contained within this whole thread,
opinion is one thing, but dont make assumption based on your own moral standings or clouded opinions.

as i said before i have a large income and i used to buy more than one copy of a game for me and my friends,

as a strong C&C generals fan , and a lorth of the rings fan, i got up at 6am to buy battle for middle earth for me and all my friends (8 copys) at 8am,
that game was a peice of shit and nothing like it advertised.

i purchased 20 copys of HL 1 for an internet cafe so me and my friends could play it at a lan party, im sure ive contributed more to the gaming industry then any other 1 person in this thread,

i have come to so much issues with game developers and their false advertising and bad post sales support, mainly with EA games & ubisoft, and i do limit my pirate downloads to the publishers with whom i have my concerns, but i feel the gaming industry is badly regulated by clueless old politicians, and thus can advertise their games however they feel. and thus i have no qulams with pirating a game and hurting a multi-national company when they have no qulams about ripping me off and not supporting their products.

So basically... You just confessed to being a pirate and are trying to justify it. Nice try, but it's still stealing.

oh noes you read between my lines, you sir are quite the observant wordsmith and scollar, hats off, i love how articulate and well red your reply was, i must cease and disist my pirating activitys, this man has showen me the light

[(TLL)Sky_walker]

Cyan - ROTFL!  I'd run away if I were you - never know if one of Devs is a police man, and just few minutes ago sent your IP to Grand Anti-Pirate Organization!

He is saying that pirates are stealing property, implying they are hurting the companies that produce the software. This is not the case, since it's highly doubtful that pirates would buy the software if they didn't have the opportunity to pirate it.
I'm not trying to play the "You call it this, I call it that" game. Sorry if that confused you

Hmm? Most of my friends do that - first check the pirate copy, than, if it ain't crap, they buy original for multi, and stuff.
This practice is more common than you might thing. Though still it doesn't change the fact that it's stealing.

[HAARP]

He is saying that pirates are stealing property, implying they are hurting the companies that produce the software. This is not the case, since it's highly doubtful that pirates would buy the software if they didn't have the opportunity to pirate it.
I'm not trying to play the "You call it this, I call it that" game. Sorry if that confused you

Hmm? Most of my friends do that - first check the pirate copy, than, if it ain't crap, they buy original for multi, and stuff.
This practice is more common than you might thing. Though still it doesn't change the fact that it's stealing.

No doubt about that. But do you think they'd still buy the game if they didn't have the chance to test it first? That's what I'm getting at.
Oh, and btw, "stealing" still implies that some damage is done in my opinion.

[ratbuddy]

"But there's no demo!" is no excuse. Go read a review, or simply don't buy it.

[(TLL)Sky_walker]

If they couldn't test it? Hm... they would test it in the other way? i.e. Demos or look for forum opinions?
Once I asked a guy why he does this way, and he told that it's simply because he was too many times cheated on the games which were proven not to be worth even single cent spent on them.
So I doubt he would buy games blind.

As for "stealing implies that some damage is done"- I wouldn't consider it in this category. No damage is done, when guy buys a game later on, cause he paid for it, company got what it wished for, and obviously - no player would buy each game 2 times, so de facto no harm was done. Still, the law states that stealing is stealing, only matter is if (for example) you would steal a car from car seller for a three day test, than leave it in front of his nose, and put the money on table telling that you want to buy it - would he call a police or not?
I also have no idea how courts look on such cases... but that's another matter.

(though it doesn't change the fact, that the guys stole games which they didn't found to be cool. On the other hand though, it doesn't change the fact that some games are hyped above that what they diverse, and there's nearly no way to verify games quality without playing them. Reviews don't matter, as each person have entirely different taste + magazines are known to sell reviews.)

[HAARP]

"But there's no demo!" is no excuse. Go read a review, or simply don't buy it.

You know what? When I hear about a game that I might like, I'll get my hand on it and play it. I'm not gonna wait months for a demo (which might not be free anymore soon), not gonna read any review by corrupt reviewers, fanboys or some guy who has his own personal opinion, not gonna wade through overpriced Ebay auctions hoping to spot a reasonably-priced copy, and especially not gonna listen to some do-gooder on a random forum who thinks he has the right to judge or tell people what to do.

And don't get me started on DRM, disc-checks, copy-protection, online activation and constant connections, missing LAN-multiplayer, the quality of games nowadays, repetition, forced hardware manufacturer/publisher intros, terrible translations, censorship in certain countries, bad support (patches, bugfixes), the criminalization of customers or the fact that nowadays, you don't own games, merely a license to play them that can be revoked at any time.

No, I'll simply play it. And if you got a problem with that? Sucks to be you.

If they couldn't test it? Hm... they would test it in the other way? i.e. Demos or look for forum opinions?

Are you serious? I don't know many people who would rely on a demo to judge whether to buy a game. Especially since demos are released too late (if at all), offer too little, don't tell you whether the story is crap or what you can expect regarding support for the game. And most importantly, it does not tell you how multiplayer will be like.
And forum opinions? They're far too personal. Besides, fanbois everywhere.

[ratbuddy]

And don't get me started on DRM, disc-checks, copy-protection, online activation and constant connections, missing LAN-multiplayer, the quality of games nowadays, repetition, forced hardware manufacturer/publisher intros, terrible translations, censorship in certain countries, bad support (patches, bugfixes), the criminalization of customers or the fact that nowadays, you don't own games, merely a license to play them that can be revoked at any time.

No, I'll simply play it. And if you got a problem with that? Sucks to be you.

All that crap is thanks to pirate jerks, and only screws over real customers like me. If people were honest and paid for the games, companies would have no incentive to include all that garbage.

Thanks for that.

[(TLL)Sky_walker]

you don't own games, merely a license to play them that can be revoked at any time.

Yea... I also have that feeling more than often these days :/

If they couldn't test it? Hm... they would test it in the other way? i.e. Demos or look for forum opinions?

Are you serious? I don't know many people who would rely on a demo to judge whether to buy a game. Especially since demos are released too late (if at all), offer too little, don't tell you whether the story is crap or what you can expect regarding support for the game. And most importantly, it does not tell you how multiplayer will be like.
And forum opinions? They're far too personal. Besides, fanbois everywhere.

Well, demos + opinions from people (whatever from forums or RL) you know are fair good enough for me very often.
Besides that - it gives you the feel of game. If I don't feel like game is great after demo than screw it. More than often this method worked. There were great demos, and great games in full version, ie. Homeworld, Starshatter, Populous, and so on. Somehow however I don't recall any game having great demo, yet poor full version.

And finally: Somehow I need to check out the game before actually spending my 1/20th of payment to random position in games shop Somehow legal I mean.

[CHHs Cyan]

And don't get me started on DRM, disc-checks, copy-protection, online activation and constant connections, missing LAN-multiplayer, the quality of games nowadays, repetition, forced hardware manufacturer/publisher intros, terrible translations, censorship in certain countries, bad support (patches, bugfixes), the criminalization of customers or the fact that nowadays, you don't own games, merely a license to play them that can be revoked at any time.

No, I'll simply play it. And if you got a problem with that? Sucks to be you.

All that crap is thanks to pirate jerks, and only screws over real customers like me. If people were honest and paid for the games, companies would have no incentive to include all that garbage.

Thanks for that.

you have quite a zealous opinion, what experiance and information has formed this, do you work for a games company or a retailer or something, have you or someone you knowen lost their jobs or have blamed piracy for a loss of income , you seem to have quite a destorted and one sided view, and ignor the valid remakrs of others.

[Seraph]

Thread locked upon request. This is going nowhere.