A fix to the passive radar folks and a buff to ECM

[Arghy]

I always hate having to toggle my radar off and on because i dont have ECM and even when i have ECM i watch people running around in passive getting pretty much the same thing for less. In passive your forced to rely heavily on your eyes and its pretty much more reliable then radar EXCEPT when a nuke gos off! I say we add smoke screens!--limited shot smoke rockets attached to your mech allowing you to fire them ahead of you for cover. When mechlab comes out no one will get ECM because why not just go passive and save the space/money? If we have smoke screens on the field then you'll be rewarded for buying ECM while the passive guys will run around blindly bumping into enemys.


Limited smoke rockets strapped to your mech!

[HAARP]

ECM should increase lock-on time for LRMs.

[=KoS=Zeus]

Guardian ECM Suite
Electronic Counter Measures - Designed to interfere with guided weaponry, targeting computers, and communication systems. These units are typically used to shield allied units from such weapons/sensors. These includes such equipment using Streak, Artemis IV, Targeting Computers, C3 Computers systems, and C3i Computer

Angel ECM Suite
The Angel ECM Suite doubles the range of the Guardian model. In addition, it completely blocks the following systems on enemy units: Artemis IV, Artemis V, Beagle Active Probes, Bloodhound Active Probes and their Clan  equivalents, C3 Master Computers and C3 Slaves, Streak Missile Launchers and Narc  missile beacons. Streak missiles may be fired at units affected by the device, but they function as standard missiles.

[~SJ~MausGMR]

The ECM could possibly do with abit of an upgrade, but I do find it useful, certain ECM mechs I cant even target when i'm running passive, so I cant see what my damage on them is, regardless of distance.

[HAARP]

Oh, and I don't think that every other variant currently should have ECM. Same goes for BAP. ECM in a Warhammer? Maddog? BAP in a Madcat? Stupid.

[rgreat]

ECM should increase lock-on time for LRMs.

This!

[=]FC[=Striker]

I think the real concern is that a passive radar 'Mech is detected at 700m by an enemy that has BHP. That totally negates the tactical use of no radar flanking and the use of terrain to sneak up on the enemy for some short range brawling. In the brawling case the enemy has time to reposition and take you out while the short ranged weapons are out of range, or at the least prepare to annihilate you the second they are able to have LoS on you.

It seems that these decisions are being made to remove all tactical or league application of the Mod, because all the "cool stuff" that is added over previous games make it so a 10 year old is just as effective as a 40 year old because tactics are nearly non-existent or have almost no place in the game.

Striker

[~SJ~ Blhurr]

I didn't know that about  BHP.  That's really a long range of detection against passivity.  As long as you have one BHP mech in your drop config you've pretty much safeguarded yourself against all surprise brawls.  As long as you keep that mech near your blind spots on the map you'll see everything coming.
 
What would be an acceptable compromise?  You don't want to shorten that range too much because then the electronics become obsolete and people will just avoid electronic tonnage in favor of more firepower.

[=]FC[=Striker]

I would say 300m no electronics passive detection, 350m BAP, and 400m BHP. That is my personal preference. I want passive radar to be exactly that and add to the tools used in a competitive match.

I would be able to deal with 300 no electronics, 400m BAP, and 500m BHP, but once again that is stretching it. The really heavy hitting brawling weapons in this case are still 150m out of range (those weapons coming in at 350m range), and in the case of the LBXs which are no good outside of 100m, there is a lot of time for the enemy to adjust to a flanking "trap".

Hell, right now a shutdown 'Mech is detected at 300m. I understand the argument can go either way on this one, as a shutdown 'Mech is still a 'Mech, but if my reactor is powered down and I am against a building there should be no way for a "radar" system to distinguish that I am a 'Mech.

I think that with all the "awesome cool super never before seen" additions to this Mod, all chances to utilize passive radar or even shutdown asset tactics have all but vanished as viable. None of us were there for the creation of the other MW games (we were alive of course but not a part of the making), but maybe they remained somewhat simplistic due to all this extra junk totally killing gameplay. It is nice to have the new stuff, but I think we as the players are paying too high a price to have these nifty new functions.

Striker

[~SJ~ Blhurr]

To be fair it takes even an assault mech just a handful of seconds to close a 100m gap.  It would be pretty lame from the perspective of a lrmissile bearing mech to suddenly have a brawler inside your minimum range with little or no warning.  500 for bap might be reasonable.  Scout mechs not only as offensive tools but also as defensive trip-wires.

[~SJ~MausGMR]

I dont think BHP detecting passives at 700m is an issue myself, because current stock loadouts mean there is pretty much only 2 mechs (both IS and both light) and 1 aero, if I remember correctly, that have a BHP. Therefore for leagues/ladders, one player is having to give up alot of firepower just to play a very dedicated scout role, because at least most BAP mechs and some C3 mechs have weapons that are vaguely reasonable considering the chassis weight.

However, if mechlab lets you put BHP on any mech..... well, problems will arrise.

[(TLL)CapperDeluxe]

However, if mechlab lets you put BHP on any mech..... well, problems will arrise.

I'd imagine it would be like mechwarrior 4, where only certain mechs will have the option to install ECM/BHP, rather than being an option any mech can take.

[Arghy]

Wait so ECM counters BHP yet you dont want to use ECM you want to abuse passive radar? Passive should totally be negated if your moving--talk about team work well get angel ECM and stay in formation. Passive should be for setting up ambushes not a necessity for living on the field. If you had the option for ECM but passed it up for more weapons then welp tough luck for you. Going passive should not be an alternative to buying ECM--ask a team mate to get a wide coverage ECM then stay in formation.

You also dont completely shut down your reactor when you shut down because if you stopped it a cold start would take like 5-10 minutes, you idle your reactor and mechs have a shitload of sensors other then just radar to detect enemy mechs.


Passive is on the same level as jump sniping and alpha builds--an unintended abuse of gameplay that negate the experience for other players.

[Rally]

When mechlab comes out no one will get ECM because why not just go passive and save the space/money?

But ECM weights little (one ton) and it's actually pretty useful. With ECM, you can use your radar all the time and still be stealthy on enemy radar. I'm guessing it will actually be used a lot, unless it comes with a prohibitive price tag.

Oh, and I don't think that every other variant currently should have ECM. Same goes for BAP. ECM in a Warhammer? Maddog? BAP in a Madcat? Stupid.

The MadCat had BAP since MW4. I know it's not much of a precedent, however it's still a long range combat mech so having BAP on it isn't completely stupid.

[=KoS=Zeus]

The Beagle Active Probe (BAP) is a suite of enhancement technology that, when attached to general electronic sensors, enables the equipped unit to detect and classify other battlefield units -with the exception of conventional infantry- whether they are camouflaged or even shut down.

The Inner Sphere Beagle Active Probe weighs 1.5 tons and takes up 2 critical spaces. It has a detection range of four hexes.

The BAP was not originally designed to be a "Radar Extender", it was designed to detect hidden enemy units within close range. Since battlemechs are generally really easy to spot, it had almost no use in the previous Mechwarrior games except as a radar extender. Ironically, now that we have combined arms that would make the BAP really useful (detecting BA) it doesn't function as originally intended.

ECM, additionally, is all supposed to blanket a large area, but previous MW games had it only affect the unit using it, cutting radar detection range down and extending the time needed for missile lock. Again, its original use was bastardized for MW play and so it had no effect on streak, targeting computers, NARC, Artemis IV FCS, etc. Now that there is a need for large area EW mechs the equipment isn't altered to fit the role needed, it is still using the old bastardized MW interpretations.