Thoughts on weapons

[HAARP]

Greetings fellow Mechwarriors and freebirths!

There has been a lot of discussion about how weapons should behave, all over the place and with no clear goal. I'm making this thread to discuss my thoughts and for others to voice their opinion aswell.
Due to the fact that weapon damages (and ranges??) are bound to change dramatically with the next patch, I am _not_ going to discuss damage directly. Instead, I will be focusing more on the look and feel, aswell as the way the function. Let's get started!

Lasers
Lasers are more or less fine, but I'd like to propose damage dropoff. At the moment, laser beams disappear into thin air 1meter above their maximum range. That's ridiculous. This is what I had in mind:
% of max range | % of damage
50   | 110
100 | 100
110 | 75
120 | 50
130 | 25
150 | 10
This way, lasers can still be used at up to 150% of their max range, with drastically reduced damage however. Below their maximum range they become more deadly even, but only a little bit. This is only an example, real values have to be determined by testing, or even better, be derived from a formula so we can avoid unnecessary "steps" in laser damage.

--- new section ---
Pulse lasers could be made full-auto, like suggested here. They could use a slightly different "sparks" effect, due to the fact that they were designed to avoid sparks/molten armor from getting into the beam while it is still active.
--- new section ---

Effects-wise, I'd like to see the beam having infinite range, but getting thinner and thinner the farther it shoots. Currently, if you watch a laser battle from far away, it looks like 2 mecha-jedis fighting with huge lightsabers because of the beams ending abruptly. I think this looks a little bit strange.
I'd also like to see more sparks flying away when a large laser eats through metal to illustrate the amount of damage done

Autocannons
As proposed by many here, I'd like to change Autocannons into AUTOcannons. That is, full-auto cannons. The AC20 for instance was always defined as a weapons system that does _on average_ 20 points of damage. In no way was ever mentioned that it has to be one round
To illustrate: something like this
The *thumpathumathumpa* should please many players and emphasize the power behind these weapons. UACs of course would have twice the rate-of-fire.
Per-round damage will be adjusted accordingly.
I'm still not sure how LBX should be handled and there are ongoing discussions, so I'm not going to propose anything here. The only change I'd definitely want to see here is the ability to switch between Cluster and standard ammo.
Additionally, huge shells and clouds of smoke should be ejected from the guns and the barrel should start glowing after a while to make it even more awesome
Splash damage could be reduced.

The projectile could move a little bit faster than currently. To discourage sniping, a _slight_ inaccuracy shall be introduced for the bigger ACs, so that autocannons become increasingly useless the more the max range is exceeded. They are brawler weapons after all.

The target should be knocked around a bit. Remember the MW3015 trailer? The Atlas uses an AUTOcannon that slapped the Whammer around like a wet towel, and that's just what AC20s should do. (but far less extreme!)

PPCs
PPCs are already pretty cool. I'd say remove the knockback of the target. The kinetic portion of this weapon is not enough to make a difference. Instead, add electronic interference (HUD scrambled for a sec, throwing the crosshair around). Almost the same result (aiming becomes difficult) but different mechanics. Radar being blocked for a few secs could also be possible.
I'd like to use the thunder sound of the Manpack PPC on the bigger ones aswell though. As far as effects are concerned, sparks should fly off the hit zone, just like on laser hits. After MWLL moves to Warhead, I'd _really_ love the PAX weapon effect instead. Seeing molten, glowing armor plating dripping from mechs should look pretty cool

Gauss Rifles
I propose knockback for Gauss and Heavy Gauss. It's the weapon with by far the highest muzzle energy, so firing this weapon should really give you some headaches. (in fact, the HvyGauss has so much recoil that light/medium mechs in CBT firing it have to make a piloting roll to determine whether they fall!). The target should also feel this power, so knock it around aswell, even more than autocannons.
Hvy Gauss can't be mounted in arms (CBT rule, makes sense tbh)
Gauss slugs, just like laser beams, do not vanish after exceeding their maximum range. So here I propose the same dropoff like with lasers.
When a Gauss rifle is destroyed, they inflict damage to the mech due to exploding capacitors.
A tiny amount of splash could be added to this weapon.

LRMs
IS LRMs don't arm below their minimum range. They can still shoot, but won't explode on impact. This knocks the target around a lot (and maybe causes it to fall should this ever be implemented) but inflicts only minimal damage. I'm unsure whether Clan LRMs should suffer the same penalty. They don't in CBT.
Armed missiles impacting knock the target around even more, depending on how many hit.
I think a randomizer could be used to make LRMs cluster around a bit, so they don't try to hit the CT/Head all the time
The ability of LRMs to follow NARC/TAG should be allowed to be switched off. SRMs/MRMs shouldn't follow NARC/TAG at all.

Flamers
They need to do a lot more heat to be viable. Trying to overheat your enemies is currently pretty much pointless, especially if they happen to be in a Novacat with 640 heatsinks and coolant.

Machine guns
I don't like the fact that all machine guns are rotary. Only the Piranha mech uses rotary MGs, everybody else uses normal single-barrels (12.7mm Browning actually)

Ammo
Should a crit-system ever be implemented, I'd like to see devastating ammo-explosions. With the current system (armor=internals), this is not viable.

Heat
While not being a weapon, I 'd like to talk about heat aswell. Firing 2 large lasers puts your heat at max and cools down rapidly. This doesn't make sense to me, all that coolant in your mech should make for a larger heat capacity. That is, you can create more heat until the temperature goes critical, but you dissipate slower aswell. This way, a Mechwarrior can choose whether he wants to fire a lot of weapons and overheat fast, or fire few and keep the heat in check. An overheated mech should take a while (10 to 20 secs?) to cool down. This allows people to behave differently depending on the situation or their style.
High heat levels should put you at a disadvantage though. Your mech moves slower, your vision gets blurry and aiming gets harder. Should ammo explosions be introduced then high heat bears that risk aswell.
Coolant should be removed altogether and made optional, taking up free tons like ammo.
Vehicles don't have to deal with heat. They automatically have enough heatsinks to dissipate any heat they may build up.


Oh, and jumping throws off your aim. And remove the glowing weapons, they make spotting mechs far easier in the dark/at a distance :/


Phew. That's it. Thoughts? Opinions?

[Flyingdebris]

only disagreeing about tanks not needing to deal with heat.

ehhh.  the main reason they don't deal with heat in cbt, aside from construction rules is to avoid players having to calc heat for the not quite as sexy units.  Giving them extra weapons to offset the present "missing" heatsinks is probably not an option without looking ridiculous.  So i'd toss my hat into the ring for the tanks = hard armored nut to crack idea.  Not dealing with heat would kinda feel a little cop-outy

other than that, yeah I pretty much agree with what you has. well put

[MercenaryMuffin]

I agree with most of these, but the matter of actually implementing them is something else entirely. Glowing weapon barrels and large ejected shells, while cool looking, would probably be hard to get working right.

I'll go down the list here:
Lasers
Agree that they should have a damage drop-off. Only thing I would change is the sound effects; not a big fan of how they currently sound.

Autocannons
Again, agree completely. Currently, there's nothing auto about autocannons.

PPCs
Keep the knockback, it's one of the few things that it's not worse than gauss rifles at. While Gauss relies on ammo, the amount of heat build up from even a single PPC is ridiculous. If gauss also gets knock back, then PPCs need to, say, disable the HUD for a second.

Gauss
I'd support some knockback from gauss rounds. They are, after all, projectiles moving at hypersonic speeds.

LRMs
Currently, all LRMs hit the cockpit and upper torso. I'd like to see them hit different body parts once in a while. This would make LRM spamming less of a problem, since you'd need more LRM hits to destroy a mech.

Flamers
Increase the heat damage. A lot. Even a mech with 4 flamers won't reliably overheat an enemy.

Machine Guns
I like the gatling-style weapons, they make more sense than single-barrel when we're dealing with projectiles this big. I would like to see the gatling guns actually spin up, though.

Ammo
Don't really have much to say about this one, a new damage system entirely would need to be implemented.

Heat
My only problem with current heat management is that almost any energy-heavy mech will overheat constantly during battle. I'd like to see a gradual ramping up of heat, not just fire-coolant-fire-coolant like we have now.

Vehicles don't need to worry about heat management, and they shouldn't have to. The most powerful tank in the game (not counting artillery) is the Demolisher, and it carries weapons equal to a medium mech. It doesn't have enough firepower to worry about overheating. If anything, I think tanks should be heavily armored. A mech relies on a pretty delicate system for motion, ie bipedal motion. With this sytem comes the balancing of weight through armor, weapons, and internals.
A tank doesn't have to worry about this. It can't be legged. It's already a stable design. Put on a bunch of armor, some weapons, and you're set.
If anything, I'd like to see tanks become heavily armored to make up for their relatively light armament. Like was said before, "a tough nut to crack".

[HAARP]

Machine Guns
I like the gatling-style weapons, they make more sense than single-barrel when we're dealing with projectiles this big. I would like to see the gatling guns actually spin up, though.

Actually, they're just 12.7mm Browning

I agree with armoring tanks better.

[7.[WD]Ragor]

Because I want to support Haarp/Debris/Siilk + many others with their crusade this post is made. Just to underline their points.

At first some definitions:
CBT: ClassicBattleTech, the tabletop game, reflecting the warfare of BTU in the 31th century with numbers and datasheets in a round based game.
BTU: The BattleTechUniverse. Brought to life by CBT, got filled with life by the novels and sourcebooks.
the novels: The organic definition of the BTU. But !cave!, only the books written by a few authors represent it true (mainly Stackpole and Coleman), some books are written by authors which had been not really familiar with it and just dreamed some stuff together.
MW3: The best BTU reflecting mech game so far.
MW4: Probably the most played and known one. But just a game with mechs relying for the story and settings on BT, the game mechanics? lol

What is an AC?
Simple: AutoCannon. (-> autofiring cannon. And not 'a cannon with an autoloader')
The AC (not to mention the unreliable but even more brutal UAC -> fires even faster (double) for having jams and bad accuracy) is just a brutal weapon for close distance. But in this section the AC is obsolete.
An AC-10/20 is able to shred everything when it is in range and hit.

The AC fires not just one shell (thx MW4) or double shots of bubblegums (thx, MW4, really entertaining), they fire a stream of shells, that's what the 'A' is standing for.
(I write crap? check sarna for AC and UAC)

But AC is not equal AC, its a weapon group. The rate of fire, the calibre (for example the AC-20 is all between 150mm-203mm), all is depending on the manufacturer.
Mechs got usually mounted an AC-20 with smaller calibre but 10 shot bursts. (Famous exception: The hip mounted AC-20 of the Atlas, this baby is large bore singel shot) Tanks usually got large calibres with fast reloading single shots in a huge calibre.
BTW: AC fires only AP or HEAT ammunition, the UAC is even more restricted. HE? Oh, thx MW4, I forgot, you suck.


Lets take a look at actual MWLL U/AC-10/20:
I suppose everybody is with me for defining the gauss as the classic sniper rifle. Range, accuracy, punch but a slow firing speed.
-> Mr.X got one.
I comparing now the AC-10/20 with a heavy assault rifle. Or better: A CAWS loaded with slugs.
-> The Grunt got one.

Mr.X gets now assaulted by The Grunt, achieving many hits while The Grunt is still on his approach, he can't even fire back. But now The Grunt is in range (but already banged up - if he even got there...), now he will shoot the crap out of this Mr.X. Yeah, he got the dedicated brawling weapon with a huge punch and ... wait... fapp, he forgot the autofire switch at home. Hmpf... now Mr.X has the same pros on his side: Compared with the now CAWS with cut off balls, his dedicated longrange weapon has the same punch and the same firing speed, is more accurate, his projectile travels even faster (easier hitting then) -> random chances. And The Grunt is already banged up.
Sounds really fair for me the weapon situation. Reminds me a bit of MWLL...

How could this now be changed in the game?
Slow firing bursts are damn hard to control, wouldn't be real fun.

Here an idea which was posted in another thread:

-The following numbers are just examples-

Lets say the actual AC-20 delivers 2000dmg+splash, one shot all 5 seconds.

Remove splash damage, each shell delivers 1200 points of damage with a damage drop after half range. (since its AP the shell works with the impact speed)
autofire ability of 3 shots in 2 seconds.
But the AC-20 'overheats' (with the raising bar known from AC2-5/RAC) after 4 shots, full cool down 7s but may fire 'half-cooled'.
-> UAC-20 would fire 5 shots in 2 seconds, but when it overheats the UAC must cool down fully until ready again. (shall simulate the jammin problem of the UAC, but the pilot can stop shooting before it overheats)

Same for the U/AC-10 but with slightly increased rate of fire.

>>> oh yeah <<<

-> The gauss would be a relaible and deadly weapons at nearly all ranges. The U/AC-10/20 would be less effective on longer ranges but become the 'fear in the heart of the enemy' when reaches its dedicated short range section it was designed for. And a pilot whith an AC would always have to be careful not to waste his precious ammo he can empty so fast now if he is too trigger happy.
A sharpshooter going to close area fight against a assault rifle shouldn't stand a real chance since he could have evaded early enough to keep the upperhand by using the superior range of his chosen gear.

I used the term 'overheating' just because this function is already known from the game.
I see it more like the weapon has a clip/load of ammo loaded (weapon cool), while firing the weapon is reloading shells continuesly, but it fires faster then the shells reach the internal ammo stock (overheats). IMO this would give the player the ability of firing bursts (like a should be) with control over the shots without overpowering it due to the reloading (cooling down) and would bring in the risk of jamming an UAC for some seconds if you are not careful enough.


Pugh, long post written two times.
Hope it was worth the time reading it, because then it was worth to write it a second time. 

[(TLL)Siilk]

Lasers
Lasers are more or less fine, but I'd like to propose damage dropoff. At the moment, laser beams disappear into thin air 1meter above their maximum range. That's ridiculous. This is what I had in mind:
% of max range | % of damage
50   | 110
100 | 100
110 | 75
120 | 50
130 | 25
150 | 10
This way, lasers can still be used at up to 150% of their max range, with drastically reduced damage however. Below their maximum range they become more deadly even, but only a little bit. This is only an example, real values have to be determined by testing, or even better, be derived from a formula so we can avoid unnecessary "steps" in laser damage.

Effects-wise, I'd like to see the beam having infinite range, but getting thinner and thinner the farther it shoots. Currently, if you watch a laser battle from far away, it looks like 2 mecha-jedis fighting with huge lightsabers because of the beams ending abruptly. I think this looks a little bit strange.
I'd also like to see more sparks flying away when a large laser eats through metal to illustrate the amount of damage done

 Lasers are very powerful as they are now, so maybe they should inflict less damage not only above, but also below maximum range. In addition to what you proposed, for any distance below max, damage would decrease a little to a minimum of, say, 75% at half of max distance, due to problems with focusing the beam or maintaining it's coherence out of optimal operational range.

Autocannons
As proposed by many here, I'd like to change Autocannons into AUTOcannons. That is, full-auto cannons. The AC20 for instance was always defined as a weapons system that does _on average_ 20 points of damage. In no way was ever mentioned that it has to be one round
To illustrate: something like this
The *thumpathumathumpa* should please many players and emphasize the power behind these weapons. UACs of course would have twice the rate-of-fire. I'm still not sure how LBX should be handled and there are ongoing discussions, so I'm not going to propose anything here. The only change I'd definitely want to see here is the ability to switch between Cluster and standard ammo.
Additionally, huge shells and clouds of smoke should be ejected from the guns and the barrel should start glowing after a while to make it even more awesome
Splash damage could be reduced.

 HELL, YEAH!!!

PPCs
PPCs are already pretty cool. I'd say remove the knockback of the target. The kinetic portion of this weapon is not enough to make a difference.
I'd like to use the thunder sound of the Manpack PPC on the bigger ones aswell though. As far as effects are concerned, sparks should fly off the hit zone, just like on laser hits. After MWLL moves to Warhead, I'd _really_ love the PAX weapon effect instead. Seeing molten, glowing armor plating dripping from mechs should look pretty cool

 I like everything you proposed for PPC, with exception of knockback. Removing it would only be ok, if PPC damage would be boosted to reflect it's power in CBT.
 

Gauss Rifles
I propose knockback for Gauss and Heavy Gauss. It's the weapon with by far the highest muzzle energy, so firing this weapon should really give you some headaches. (in fact, the HvyGauss has so much recoil that light/medium mechs in CBT firing it have to make a piloting roll to determine whether they fall!). The target should also feel this power, so knock it around aswell, even more than autocannons.
Hvy Gauss can't be mounted in arms (CBT rule, makes sense tbh)
Gauss slugs, just like laser beams, do not vanish after exceeding their maximum range. So here I propose the same dropoff like with lasers.
When a Gauss rifle is destroyed, they inflict damage to the mech due to exploding capacitors.
A tiny amount of splash could be added to this weapon.

 Again, I have an objection on knockback issue. As Gauss projectile moves extremely fast, it could penetrate mech armor without transferring all it's momentum to it's target, like AP bullets do in case of unarmored target. And, of course, Gauss shouldn't be doing any splash damage, as Gauss projectiles are solid metal, with no explosive parts; splash damage would is unreasoned and unnecessary for this weapon.

LRMs
IS LRMs don't arm below their minimum range. They can still shoot, but won't explode on impact. This knocks the target around a lot (and maybe causes it to fall should this ever be implemented) but inflicts only minimal damage. I'm unsure whether Clan LRMs should suffer the same penalty. They don't in CBT.
Armed missiles impacting knock the target around even more, depending on how many hit.
I think a randomizer could be used to make LRMs cluster around a bit, so they don't try to hit the CT/Head all the time
The ability of LRMs to follow NARC/TAG should be allowed to be switched off. SRMs/MRMs shouldn't follow NARC/TAG at all.

 Minimal arming distance for IS LRMs could be reflected in their cost being less, relative to clan LRMs. As for NARC/TAG, I think only Artemis-equipped mechs with Artemis turned on should have the ability to use NARC/TAG. No Artemis, or it's off -- no NARC/TAG homing.

Flamers
They need to do a lot more heat to be viable. Trying to overheat your enemies is currently pretty much pointless, especially if they happen to be in a Novacat with 640 heatsinks and coolant.

 Agreed, flamers should have a serious buff of transferred heat. BTW, I think flamers should act more like BA inferno charge does now: make the target heating up for some time after the flamer is turned off.

Machine guns
I don't like the fact that all machine guns are rotary. Only the Piranha mech uses rotary MGs, everybody else uses normal single-barrels.

 While I'd be glad to see this, making new MGs would make only cosmetic difference, while requiring new models for it as well as remodeling existing assets to include them. Personally I think that two different MGs, clan(.25t) and IS(.5t) would be enough.
 

Ammo
Should a crit-system ever be implemented, I'd like to see devastating ammo-explosions. With the current system (armor=internals), this is not viable.

 I am eager to see this implemented. Hearing bitchin' betty's "internal ammo explosion detected" while your mech is rambling from 4 toms of UAC ammo exploding inside it is one of the strongest sensations in MW!

Heat
While not being a weapon, I 'd like to talk about heat aswell. Firing 2 large lasers puts your heat at max and cools down rapidly. This doesn't make sense to me, all that coolant in your mech should make for a larger heat capacity. That is, you can create more heat until the temperature goes critical, but you dissipate slower aswell. This way, a Mechwarrior can choose whether he wants to fire a lot of weapons and overheat fast, or fire few and keep the heat in check. An overheated mech should take a while (10 to 20 secs?) to cool down. This allows people to behave differently depending on the situation or their style.
High heat levels should put you at a disadvantage though. Your mech moves slower, your vision gets blurry and aiming gets harder.
Coolant should be removed altogether and made optional, taking up free tons like ammo.
Vehicles don't have to deal with heat. They automatically have enough heatsinks to dissipate any heat they may build up.

 Absolutely totally wholeheartedly agree! It's like you knew what I want to get as my birthday present this year. Make them lasboats feel the heat!
 

Oh, and jumping throws off your aim.

 That goes without questions!

 

only disagreeing about tanks not needing to deal with heat.

ehhh.  the main reason they don't deal with heat in cbt, aside from construction rules is to avoid players having to calc heat for the not quite as sexy units.  Giving them extra weapons to offset the present "missing" heatsinks is probably not an option without looking ridiculous.  So i'd toss my hat into the ring for the tanks = hard armored nut to crack idea.  Not dealing with heat would kinda feel a little cop-outy

other than that, yeah I pretty much agree with what you has. well put

 I think that all non-mech assets should have better heat management for balance reasons, but only with stock variants. Using "turbo boost" or some hot custom loadout could, of course, lead to overheating though.

LRMs
Currently, all LRMs hit the cockpit and upper torso. I'd like to see them hit different body parts once in a while. This would make LRM spamming less of a problem, since you'd need more LRM hits to destroy a mech.

 I agree, some scattering of LRMs would be very good for balancing.

FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Was writing a long, well founded post for over one hour!!!!!!!!!!!! got locked out, all gone!!!!!!! 
Will do it again...

 I have the same happen to me in this thread. Damn, it must someone with bad karma reading it now. Redvan, is that you?  

[(TLL)Sky_walker]

Lasers
Lasers are more or less fine, but I'd like to propose damage dropoff. At the moment, laser beams disappear into thin air 1meter above their maximum range. That's ridiculous. This is what I had in mind:
% of max range | % of damage
50   | 110
100 | 100
110 | 75
120 | 50
130 | 25
150 | 10
This way, lasers can still be used at up to 150% of their max range, with drastically reduced damage however. Below their maximum range they become more deadly even, but only a little bit. This is only an example, real values have to be determined by testing, or even better, be derived from a formula so we can avoid unnecessary "steps" in laser damage.

I wouldn't go with lasers having 150% of their rage. I'm more like... dropoff should happen since 75% to 100%. Cause last thing I'd like to see are laserboat snipers - these would be even worse than Gauss snipers now, cause they don't have to RTB for ammo.

When a Gauss rifle is destroyed, they inflict damage to the mech due to exploding capacitors.
A tiny amount of splash could be added to this weapon.

They do make damage when exploding.
As for splash - IMHO it's unreasonable, as Gauss us purely kinetic energy weapon.... isn't it? Last time I checked it was metal slug goint with few times a speed of sound - typical kinetic weapon. Meaning: No splash at all.

LRMs
IS LRMs don't arm below their minimum range. They can still shoot, but won't explode on impact. This knocks the target around a lot (and maybe causes it to fall should this ever be implemented) but inflicts only minimal damage. I'm unsure whether Clan LRMs should suffer the same penalty. They don't in CBT.
Armed missiles impacting knock the target around even more, depending on how many hit.
I think a randomizer could be used to make LRMs cluster around a bit, so they don't try to hit the CT/Head all the time

I don't get it why people dislike being hit by LRMs at close range. Just don't get THAT close and all problems solved. I never get hit by LRMs at lose range - accident? o_O
As for "randomizer" - there's one already as well. Though it works best if you stay instead of moving - moving, espiecially on sides, make missiles tighten and hit a single component.

Flamers
They need to do a lot more heat to be viable. Trying to overheat your enemies is currently pretty much pointless, especially if they happen to be in a Novacat with 640 heatsinks and coolant.

Oh yea!

Heat
While not being a weapon, I 'd like to talk about heat aswell. Firing 2 large lasers puts your heat at max and cools down rapidly. This doesn't make sense to me, all that coolant in your mech should make for a larger heat capacity.

This would allow enormous laser-boating. Basically: The MW4 multiplayer. It's defnietly a no-go for me. Current system is that good, that you have to watch out no matter what you are piloting. So Alpha-strike for ultimate laser boat == self-destruction.

Coolant should be removed altogether and made optional, taking up free tons like ammo. 

+1

Vehicles don't have to deal with heat. They automatically have enough heatsinks to dissipate any heat they may build up.

-1 It's just too... magical for me

[(TLL)Siilk]

LRMs
IS LRMs don't arm below their minimum range. They can still shoot, but won't explode on impact. This knocks the target around a lot (and maybe causes it to fall should this ever be implemented) but inflicts only minimal damage. I'm unsure whether Clan LRMs should suffer the same penalty. They don't in CBT.
Armed missiles impacting knock the target around even more, depending on how many hit.
I think a randomizer could be used to make LRMs cluster around a bit, so they don't try to hit the CT/Head all the time

I don't get it why people dislike being hit by LRMs at close range. Just don't get THAT close and all problems solved. I never get hit by LRMs at lose range - accident? o_O
As for "randomizer" - there's one already as well. Though it works best if you stay instead of moving - moving, espiecially on sides, make missiles tighten and hit a single component.

 I, too, like it the way it is now, but no point blank for IS LRMs is in the lore, so I wouldn't be against that, given it would be implemented for IS LRMs only.

Heat
While not being a weapon, I 'd like to talk about heat aswell. Firing 2 large lasers puts your heat at max and cools down rapidly. This doesn't make sense to me, all that coolant in your mech should make for a larger heat capacity.

This would allow enormous laser-boating. Basically: The MW4 multiplayer. It's defnietly a no-go for me. Current system is that good, that you have to watch out no matter what you are piloting. So Alpha-strike for ultimate laser boat == self-destruction.

 Not exactly. I see it more like having some heat inertia. Mech would be harder to heat up but at the same time harder to cool down.  And, of course, coolant shouldn't be magical life saver for laser jocks.

Vehicles don't have to deal with heat. They automatically have enough heatsinks to dissipate any heat they may build up.

-1 It's just too... magical for me

 Nothing magical, just no heat from myomers and less heat from power source as compared to mech.

[HAARP]

PPCs
PPCs are already pretty cool. I'd say remove the knockback of the target. The kinetic portion of this weapon is not enough to make a difference.
I'd like to use the thunder sound of the Manpack PPC on the bigger ones aswell though. As far as effects are concerned, sparks should fly off the hit zone, just like on laser hits. After MWLL moves to Warhead, I'd _really_ love the PAX weapon effect instead. Seeing molten, glowing armor plating dripping from mechs should look pretty cool

 I like everything you proposed for PPC, with exception of knockback. Removing it would only be ok, if PPC damage would be boosted to reflect it's power in CBT.
 

That's what I'm expecting of the next patch. I also updated that part of the post with another idea, that would make this a little bit more interesting


Ragor, I like the idea of overheating ACs, but they should be able to to shoot more like 30 times before having to cool down IMO

[(TLL)Sky_walker]

Heat
While not being a weapon, I 'd like to talk about heat aswell. Firing 2 large lasers puts your heat at max and cools down rapidly. This doesn't make sense to me, all that coolant in your mech should make for a larger heat capacity.

This would allow enormous laser-boating. Basically: The MW4 multiplayer. It's defnietly a no-go for me. Current system is that good, that you have to watch out no matter what you are piloting. So Alpha-strike for ultimate laser boat == self-destruction.

 Not exactly. I see it more like having some heat inertia. Mech would be harder to heat up but at the same time harder to cool down.  And, of course, coolant shouldn't be magical life saver for laser jocks.

But it will be. In a time Mechlab comes people gonna mount Coolant Pods on every and each laserboat - it's obvious that they will - even with current rules.

Also slow cooldown rate won't be an issue if you can alpha-kill every unit from 700meters. Or at least leg it. 2 Laserboats and the game is over.

With current system after alpha-strike you'd be yellow, after another - red, with limb or ear destroyed, after another - dead. No matter what you do. Only solution is to mount reasonable weapons. That's the point I like in current system Wouldn't want to get rid of it just like that.

As my grandma used to say, while she lived: Don't fix what ain't broken. 

Vehicles don't have to deal with heat. They automatically have enough heatsinks to dissipate any heat they may build up.

-1 It's just too... magical for me

Nothing magical, just no heat from myomers and less heat from power source as compared to mech.

Yep - that's what is reflected in current system. You have hard time trying to overheat a tank... unless it's pure LPL boat IE. Demolisher can run though nearly whole map using afterburner - something entirely out of reach for any Mech.

[7.[WD]Ragor]

@Haarp: Its not overheating at all. Its just the same gamemechanic. Problem: The AC's always fire full clips/loads of ammo. (...and AC-20 clips/burst are 3 shot burst (thx to the huge shells/cartridges), on smaller calibres up to 10 shot burst, but then every single shot makes less damage then 1 hit of an 3 shot AC.
The so called 'overheating' should reflect the reloading.
(I thought I clearified this in the end of my post.)
Anyway, I don't think (even its only theory and wish-thinking here) we need to create the über-weapon. 

And BTW: Shooting 30 times? Hmm, how many shells do you wanna have loaded? The main donwside of large bore AC is their lack of ammunition. You always have to decide if the current aim is worth of shooting. You can't risk to miss. But when you hit you should shred the target tp pieces.

[HAARP]

@Haarp: Its not overheating at all. Its just the same gamemechanic. Problem: The AC's always fire full clips/loads of ammo. (...and AC-20 clips/burst are 3 shot burst (thx to the huge shells/cartridges), on smaller calibres up to 10 shot burst, but then every single shot makes less damage then 1 hit of an 3 shot AC.
The so called 'overheating' should reflect the reloading.
(I thought I clearified this in the end of my post.)
Anyway, I don't think (even its only theory and wish-thinking here) we need to create the über-weapon. 

And BTW: Shooting 30 times? Hmm, how many shells do you wanna have loaded? The main donwside of large bore AC is their lack of ammunition. You always have to decide if the current aim is worth of shooting. You can't risk to miss. But when you hit you should shred the target tp pieces.

Nope, I proposed a simple autoloader that can almost shoot without interruption. Of course, ammo will have to be adjusted. Instead of 5 rounds per ton, you're carrying 5 mags per ton, with each mag containing 10 rounds or something like that.

[MerfMerf]

Regarding ACs:
By the sound of things would this not make the brawls very short? With a weapon that can totally rip someone up when it gets in range.. then what. Brawling is reduced to whoever press the trigger first? I can agree the current ACs are not exactly ideal, but I do like how most fights can be made to last a while. I fear a weapon like what is described would be the end of having light mechs be viable in late game. My brawler Owens survive ONLY by virtue of being able to manoeuvre when other mechs weapons are cycling (More or less. Its a combination by staying at the edge of the others firing arc and just when they think they can hit you you MASC and go beyond their twist so they miss. Suddenly you have a window where you can disengage before the weapons cycle again). Perhaps I'm just misunderstanding just how much auto you guys want these things to be?

Regarding heat:
I agree with Sky walker. An increased buffer will simply enable deadlier burst damage sniping. Perhaps they can't fire as often if the dissipation is slow, but as long as the buffer is large enough to quickly destroy a target it will be a very dominant strategy. As have been mentioned before, a large part of mwll is to minimize your exposure. Thus a long range laser boat with a larger heat buffer can step out from cover, obliterate an enemy and step back behind cover and wait the longer cooldown out. End result, more passive play. Boring IMHO.

Over all I think the current heat system works well. Tweaks to just how much heat is generated by some things I can agree with is nessecary (flamers come to mind...). But I would not want any major rework of the overall system. I also LIKE that mechs get coolant for free (And yes I've stopped agreeing with Skywalker at this point ). Why? Because it forces the player to be more active. Perhaps to compensate weapons in general should generate a bit more heat (Idea ust popped up, nothing I have evaluated properly yet)? With a future mechlab people would be all to happy to remove having to use coolant with extra heatsinks instead of taking an exhaustible coolant that when used take your mind of the battlefield at large and occupy fingers that could be better suited for firing weapons, toggling radar, giving C-Bills or whatever.

Regarding Lasers:
Damage drop-off could be a good thing. As it is now lasers are very very good I think. That would of course be balanceable by just tweaking damage readouts, but as you say it would be a bit mroe interesting with a damage drop off. Have to be careful not to remove too much anti-poptarter ordnance though. Lasers are very good for that me thinks (Yes there are other wapons as well, like the gauss, but that does not change the fact lasers are also good for the job).

/Merf - Offering random thoughts and musings.

[TheDrgnRbrn]

/signed

PPC damage does need to be upped a hair though, and I feel that anything smaller than a large lasers just is not worth taking.

Coolant though.. While I would love to see all coolant removed, I would be satisfied with reducing the amount by half right now, or maybe even three quarters. Heat buildup is almost ignorable as it stands, cause you can just tap C and that warning is gone. As it stands, chain firing for heat management is almost laughable, considering you can just alpha away till the other guy dies. The Novacat and Awesome are the most notorious for this, and are thus fearsome opponents. In general though, this leads to battles being about the Alpha strike, which is not really how a Mechwarrior would fight. So, reduce coolant by a lot, and make overheating actually penalize you for a significant period of time. This would make battles more about staying power than sheer burst damage.

[Brainwright]

Tanks :  need more hit locations to bring them on par with mechs.   Tanks are especially vulnerable for the fact they only have five hit locations, whereas mechs have nine hit locations, not counting the cockpit.  I say divide the the front half of the vehicle into three sections : front, front left, and front right.  Then you might get a little bit more survivability out of them.