Author Topic: Thoughts on weapons  (Read 1638 times)

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Offline (TLL)Sky_walker

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Re: Thoughts on weapons
« Reply #30 on: April 22, 2010, 07:22:58 PM »
Very nice ideas here Maus :) Both the speed with which heat disperses and speed penalty (weren't mech moving more slowly on high-temperature planets anyway?). I'm not sure about blurring vision, but if it wouldn't be too annoying - sure, why not :) would be nice signal that something goes wrong.
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Offline Sumptin

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Re: Thoughts on weapons
« Reply #31 on: April 22, 2010, 09:34:19 PM »
Just my thoughts, and some are wordy. Hey, I dig the technical nature of the game!

I'm in the camp that AC's should have an impact event, along with splash damage (HEAP = High Explosive Armor Piercing). I also think that it should be a chain burst of rounds that cause an impact event on the person firing it as well, scaling with the size of the AC.

Gauss should have an impact event, but much smaller than the AC. It should not have splash damage.

PPC's should cause a heat transfer along with EMP effects, but only a small  impact event. You're firing a pulse of ions. They have mass, but minor compared to a slug and in turn have greater distances with the benefit of electrical transfer.

LRM's should have a minor damage/impact event below minimum arming range. The impact event above this range seems balanced to me now.

In regards to lasers, I don't feel the benefit of the smaller lasers in regards to DPS and tonnages. Obviously, the longer the range the more energy required to reach it (Due to particulates dispersing the beam). In turn, it takes longer to charge the capacitors required to fire the laser. This results in more damage over a longer distance, but a much slower recharge time, with much greater heat. The amount of energy increase required should be logarithmic, not linear, right? Also, as the air is super-heated from the beam, it's resistance drops so the damage should also be non-scalar the longer you hold the beam on a person as opposed to a steady tic-per-second as it is now. Think of how lightening works with a much smaller charge (fingers) "paving" the way for the larger current. Therefore the end of the pulse should be causing more damage than the initial tic.

So, given this paradigm, speaking entirely to DPS (with the factor of heat), a mech with SBL's should smoke a mech with an equal tonnage of LBL's at 200m. The extra tonnage does not transfer directly to damage the same way a cannon can't simply be loaded with twice the powder, the extra weight is due to the need for stronger components.

To summarize a wordy explanation, 4 SBL's != 2 MBL's != 1 LBL. I realize this is limited by the canon, but should be addressed for the mech lab. It's always been a common practice to fill your mech with the largest weapons possible then stuff in the smaller ones to fill the spare tonnage. I'm not sure that should be the most efficient way to design your mech, as in theory (assuming you can mount them) if my desired range is 500m then MBL's should be a far better choice than LBL's...currently it doesn't feel so.

Heat, overall, doesn't have a big enough impact imo. I always felt from the books that the choice to use an Alpha Strike was a heavy one, as it comes with sizable consequences in the form of heat. Right now, going over the shutdown threshold doesn't seem to really have a penalty as long as you can avoid the shutdown with coolant. I'm told it can damage your mech but I really never notice it in practice. Perhaps some kind of DoT effect based on your current heat level so if you ride near the shutdown line you're taking small but constant damage? And any spike over it should have a sizable damage penalty to the core of your mech.

Hey, I could be full of crap...but it sounds convincing! Enjoy the discussion!  ;D

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Offline (TLL)Sky_walker

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Re: Thoughts on weapons
« Reply #32 on: April 23, 2010, 09:19:40 AM »
I'm not sure that should be the most efficient way to design your mech, as in theory (assuming you can mount them) if my desired range is 500m then MBL's should be a far better choice than LBL's...currently it doesn't feel so.
+1

I'm told it can damage your mech but I really never notice it in practice.
Take Arrow4 MadCat MK2, fire PPCs, wait till they recycle, fire Arrow4s, and than again PPCs - you'll have your heat at the maximum and the damage to mech will be inflicted. :)
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Offline Snowball

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Re: Thoughts on weapons
« Reply #33 on: April 23, 2010, 09:36:11 AM »

I'm told it can damage your mech but I really never notice it in practice.
Take Arrow4 MadCat MK2, fire PPCs, wait till they recycle, fire Arrow4s, and than again PPCs - you'll have your heat at the maximum and the damage to mech will be inflicted. :)
Or hop in a novacat and alpha all the time without using coolant.  Blows up pretty fast.

Also, AFAIK, the heat damage does scale depending on how far over the little warning line you are; if you're a little over, you can override and be fine, but if you top the bar and override, you'll fry in a few seconds.
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Offline Sumptin

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Re: Thoughts on weapons
« Reply #34 on: April 23, 2010, 07:26:54 PM »
Perhaps I'm too cautious with heat in those mechs then as I don't seem to notice the damage (Admittedly, the Novacat's 22 HS really mitigate that well). Again, it may just be my interpretation of the canon, but I always took away the feeling that heat management was a very important part of piloting a mech and choosing to push your mech to the shutdown point was a choice reserved only for dire situations.

Although, any changes as mentioned above to slow down the dissipation of heat may bring that out, too!

Thanks for the discussion!

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Offline (TLL) Zeh

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Re: Thoughts on weapons
« Reply #35 on: April 23, 2010, 08:07:59 PM »
FYI the novacat's heatsinks only help with cooldown between shots.  If you alpha, you take the same damage you would if it had 0 heatsinks.  They do not mitigate heat buildup instantly, only cause it to cool faster.

Offline Sumptin

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Re: Thoughts on weapons
« Reply #36 on: April 23, 2010, 09:32:09 PM »
FYI the novacat's heatsinks only help with cooldown between shots.  If you alpha, you take the same damage you would if it had 0 heatsinks.  They do not mitigate heat buildup instantly, only cause it to cool faster.

True! However is the damage you take not tied to how long you're overheated? Because I spike it above shutdown levels constantly and don't take damage that I notice by quickly tapping a coolant flush. I'll watch this more closely.

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Offline Sumptin

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Re: Thoughts on weapons
« Reply #37 on: April 23, 2010, 10:33:15 PM »
Just tested it and here's where/why I was mistaken.

First, you don't take damage unless you completely max out your heat. Going above the shutdown line doesn't harm you (other than forcing a shutdown if you don't cool below that threshold within the timer). If you do peg it and immediately dump coolant, you can avoid damage as well (Tested with the SC). I have noticed that if you peg the meter with a 4 ERPPC alpha on a Novacat, it "sticks" for a brief moment before dropping causing a very slight amount of damage. But, again, if you tap the coolant it's incredibly slight.

FWIW, it takes 10 Alpha Strikes in a Novacat-C (7 in the Novacat-A) to kill yourself, if you use no coolant. Some weapons, such as lasers, generate heat over time. Those do seem a little harder to cool once they peg the meter.

BTW, the meter stops at 999 degs, I'm guessing that the display may peg there but that the mech actually can build more heat than that?

I like the option of flushing the coolant as it adds yet another tactic to the game. I'm just of the mind that pegging your heat should have a bit more of a consequence.

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Offline Snowball

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Re: Thoughts on weapons
« Reply #38 on: April 23, 2010, 10:39:09 PM »
Ah, thanks for the clear up.  I initially though that the Mech takes no damage when above the override line, but wasn't sure, and logically decided it might scale.

And the "stickyness" is indeed due to the fact that the actual temp is probably way higher than 999, but that's the limit it can display.

As it stands now, coolant is a bit busted, but there are several threads with several great ideas on how to deal with that, so hopefully the devs might sneak in a rework before the next patch.
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Offline (TLL)Sky_walker

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Re: Thoughts on weapons
« Reply #39 on: April 24, 2010, 02:30:04 PM »
BTW, the meter stops at 999 degs, I'm guessing that the display may peg there but that the mech actually can build more heat than that?
Yep, it does. More heat above 999deg - more damage you have. Though display is limited.
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