Author Topic: PPCs, why do they suck?  (Read 4529 times)

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Offline Mattk50

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PPCs, why do they suck?
« on: May 08, 2010, 05:50:38 PM »
why do they suck now? do you think they should continue to suck? why are ppcs worse than lasers, and why has whoever balanced ppcs both made them look terribe (wtf slow twirling particles? wtf happend to my lightning bolt!?!?) and perform terribly.

in short, ppcs need a major buff to return them to being my favorite weapon as they have been throughout the MW series.

Offline HAARP

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Re: PPCs, why do they suck?
« Reply #1 on: May 08, 2010, 05:54:26 PM »
Next patch brings completely new weapons balance.

Offline ~SJ~MausGMR

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Re: PPCs, why do they suck?
« Reply #2 on: May 08, 2010, 07:04:26 PM »
Yes unfortunately PPC's have major bugs and arent really up there on the damage charts either unless if your boating them (yes im looking at you novacat, but is there any of your setups that arent OP'd?). Overall lets hope the dev's can sort these silly 0 damage bugs and speed them up abit/change the shoot effects in the next patch.


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Offline Mattk50

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Re: PPCs, why do they suck?
« Reply #3 on: May 08, 2010, 07:56:42 PM »
Next patch brings completely new weapons balance.

does the next patch make ppcs look like lightning mw4 esque again? if not, then my argument still stands!

Offline HAARP

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Re: PPCs, why do they suck?
« Reply #4 on: May 08, 2010, 08:00:07 PM »
It's called artistic freedom, and granted, MWLL has a lot of it. It's unlikely that the effects will change, especially when there are more pressing matters to be worked on.

Offline (TLL)Sky_walker

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Re: PPCs, why do they suck?
« Reply #5 on: May 08, 2010, 08:40:28 PM »
Next patch brings completely new weapons balance.
does the next patch make ppcs look like lightning mw4 esque again? if not, then my argument still stands!
Aside from the fact that I don't recall how PPCs looked in MW4 - why would stream of ions look like a lightning? Cause last time I checked - PPCs don't have anything to deal with unleashing high voltage on enemy. It's thermal and kinetic energy weapon, not electrical.
MW4 wasn't any good thing to follow at this point. Same as Pulse Lasers in MW4... lol
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Offline Spanish Inquisition

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Re: PPCs, why do they suck?
« Reply #6 on: May 08, 2010, 10:01:40 PM »
Yet another victim of MW4.


Look into a copy of MW3.


See, PPCs suck right now because nobody's going to let me build my MW2 Dire Wolf with 25 DHS and 8 ERPPCs.


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Offline ~SJ~ Blhurr

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Re: PPCs, why do they suck?
« Reply #7 on: May 08, 2010, 10:40:22 PM »
This is the suckiest "why do x suck" thread I've encountered yet.
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Offline Aposiopesis

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Re: PPCs, why do they suck?
« Reply #8 on: May 08, 2010, 11:37:24 PM »
Next patch brings completely new weapons balance.
does the next patch make ppcs look like lightning mw4 esque again? if not, then my argument still stands!
Aside from the fact that I don't recall how PPCs looked in MW4 - why would stream of ions look like a lightning? Cause last time I checked - PPCs don't have anything to deal with unleashing high voltage on enemy. It's thermal and kinetic energy weapon, not electrical.
MW4 wasn't any good thing to follow at this point. Same as Pulse Lasers in MW4... lol

Uhh....maybe because lightning is a stream of ions? Just sayin'. (Well, actually, it's plasmafied air following a stream of ions, but that's what a PPC is, too)

You do realize that lightning has a crapton of thermal and kinetic energy; that's why people/things struck by it tend to go flying and suffer severe burns.

PPCs are the worst graphically represented weapon in the game, imo.

"Particle Projection Cannons (PPCs) which release lightning-like beams of charged particles that inflict kinetic, thermal and electrical damage. The iconic PPC, usually depicted as emitting a bluish-white beam..."

Bluish-white beam. Not slow floating sparkly cloud of blue stuff.

Offline HAARP

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Re: PPCs, why do they suck?
« Reply #9 on: May 08, 2010, 11:39:23 PM »

Offline EvilMD

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Re: PPCs, why do they suck?
« Reply #10 on: May 09, 2010, 06:14:05 AM »
This is the suckiest "why do x suck" thread I've encountered yet.

You must have missed his LBX thread... ::)

Offline shadowkiller

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Re: PPCs, why do they suck?
« Reply #11 on: May 09, 2010, 08:52:38 AM »
why do they suck now? do you think they should continue to suck? why are ppcs worse than lasers, and why has whoever balanced ppcs both made them look terribe (wtf slow twirling particles? wtf happend to my lightning bolt!?!?) and perform terribly.

in short, ppcs need a major buff to return them to being my favorite weapon as they have been throughout the MW series.

Oh im sorry master, i hadnt realized i was spending alot of time on particles just to please you. I will just drop everything and spend 2 weeks making a new ppc then shall I? /end sarcasm

I made the ppc and spent more time on it then alot of the other weapons. Getting it to helix is ALOT harder then you realize. I modeled it off the mw3 intro ppc and somewhat like the mw4 ppc. If you look at 2:16 on this video.... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nm76b8tzzWI

Its clearly a helix. If you also look at the mw4 intro ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QxfKZZ4RNng&feature=related ) and pause it right at 3:58 when the uziel is firing the ppc for the first time you can see a helix. It kinda harder to tell in the  mw4 vid but its there. Now i plan on fixing up the ppc but i dont plan on losing the helix.

P.S. Its not a lightning gun. It fires a beam of super charged particles. Lightning/electric bolts are way too random to ever be ued as a weapon.


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Offline Aposiopesis

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Re: PPCs, why do they suck?
« Reply #12 on: May 09, 2010, 11:12:57 AM »
why do they suck now? do you think they should continue to suck? why are ppcs worse than lasers, and why has whoever balanced ppcs both made them look terribe (wtf slow twirling particles? wtf happend to my lightning bolt!?!?) and perform terribly.

in short, ppcs need a major buff to return them to being my favorite weapon as they have been throughout the MW series.

P.S. Its not a lightning gun. It fires a beam of super charged particles. Lightning/electric bolts are way too random to ever be ued as a weapon.

That's directly contrary to canon, at least in terms of appearance and partly in terms of physics, so that's an incorrect statement. I think it would be better to say "The MWLL team doesn't wish to represent it in that manner. We prefer to show it as x". After all, artistic decision is ultimately yours and the team's.

The latter statement is also false:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrolaser

Particle beam weapons are in essence man-made lightning. An electrolaser is a particle beam weapon. The primary difference between an electrolaser and a PPC (besides scale) is that PPCs use magnetic accelerators to project a stream of particles whereas an electrolaser uses LIPCs. Also, an electrolaser is an electron particle beam weapon whereas PPCs are an ion/proton particle beam weapon.
« Last Edit: May 09, 2010, 11:21:19 AM by Aposiopesis »

Offline Alexander

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Re: PPCs, why do they suck?
« Reply #13 on: May 09, 2010, 11:27:38 AM »
Watch out devs, forumers are getting snippy again.

Two points:

1) Since when has Mechwarrior conformed to actual Physics?
2) Since when has it sacrificed prettiness for adherence to this "Physics" of which you speak?
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Offline Aposiopesis

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Re: PPCs, why do they suck?
« Reply #14 on: May 09, 2010, 11:33:35 AM »
Also, this:

"A particle beam is an accelerated stream of charged particles or neutrons (often moving at very near the speed of light) which may be directed by magnets and focused by electrostatic lenses, although they may also be self-focusing (see Pinch).
Subatomic particles such as electrons, positrons, and protons can be accelerated to high velocities and energies, usually expressed in terms of center-of-mass energy, by machines that impart energy to the particles in small stages or nudges, ultimately achieving very high energy particle beams, measured in terms of billions and even trillions of electron volts. Thus, in terms of their scale, particles can be made to perform as powerful missiles for bombarding other particles in a target substance or for colliding with each other as they assume intersecting orbits.
High energy beams are created in particle accelerators, in which a charged particle is drawn forward by an electrostatic (not magnetic) field with a charge opposite to the particle (like charges repel one another, opposites attract); as the particle passes the source of each field, the charge of the field is reversed so that the particle is now pushed on to another field source. Through a series of fields in sequence, the particle accelerates until it is moving at a high speed. A natural analogy to particle beams is lightning, where electrons flow from negatively charged clouds to positively charged clouds or the earth." (Wikipedia)

The physics of lightning and particle beams are very similar (lightning is for all intents and purposes a natural electron particle beam). Neutral particle beams (such as PPCs) rely on kinetics and heat to do the damage, rather than current, but the physics, speeds, and appearance are all the same.

Alexander, 1 point:

1) Since when were we talking about Mechwarrior? I'm talking about Battletech.

Personally, I've no problem with the visual effects for the PPC. It just needs to be sped up so greatly as to miss the chance to admire much of the artist's work. This alone would give it a closer appearance to lightning without making it a 'lightning gun'.

Also, bah, I suck at explaining this stuff in words. Maybe I should illustrate it.

Edit: Let me try this again.

The main reason a neutral particle beam (ion or proton, such as  PPC) looks like lightning is because it has the same effect on the atmosphere around it.. superheated air in the form of plasma which you see with lightning due the friction and energy of all those particles forcing their way through the substance of air and the same resulting sound from those processes. The particle beam itself is straight and thin (the actual lightning part of a lightning bolt is roughly the thickness of a finger; a weaponized particle beam likely less so). The supercharged, superheated air around the particle beam will inherently look more random. I found this effect someone made to be a decent example:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N77mT4qtT7U

An electron particle beam, electrolaser, or lightning bolt is following a channel (necessary due to the properties of those pesky electrons). A neutral particle beam is its own channel.
« Last Edit: May 09, 2010, 11:52:55 AM by Aposiopesis »