0.3.0 - dissatisfied

[Rally]

Give the new balacning a chance. We did that on purpose so that there is actually some fighting, and you don't die in the first 5 seconds of the fight, after walking for 3 minutes from the base to the battle zone.

It's simply not as much fun as before for me. I've decided on this before I even knew 0.3.0 would have such an issue. Yes, I'm long time opposed to games where armor is stronger than weapons. It's also one of the things I didn't like in MW4.

Please, excuse me now as I try to describe as best I can why having too much armor might be bad for my (and maybe other's) enjoyment:

More armor makes it easier to disengage from battle. Being powerless to stop your enemy from getting away is not fun.

Lighter mechs are even more unlikely to defeat bigger ones. Any creative maneuvering they pull won't have much effect. With longer battles, superior firepower and armor will decide who wins. Being stuck with a mech that is unlikely to destroy the enemy isn't fun.

Outnumbered. In any 2v1 or similar situation, the lone pilot is pretty much completely doomed. As it takes longer now to disable or destroy a mech, it is decided beforehand that he'll get swarmed and lose, even if he's elite. Hopelessness is not fun.

And in closing, my best argument: Killing things is fun, more armor makes killing things take longer. Therefore, less fun is had.

[Salvatoris]

Give the new balacning a chance. We did that on purpose so that there is actually some fighting, and you don't die in the first 5 seconds of the fight, after walking for 3 minutes from the base to the battle zone.

It's simply not as much fun as before for me. I've decided on this before I even knew 0.3.0 would have such an issue. Yes, I'm long time opposed to games where armor is stronger than weapons. It's also one of the things I didn't like in MW4.

Please, excuse me now as I try to describe as best I can why having too much armor might be bad for my (and maybe other's) enjoyment:

More armor makes it easier to disengage from battle. Being powerless to stop your enemy from getting away is not fun.

Lighter mechs are even more unlikely to defeat bigger ones. Any creative maneuvering they pull won't have much effect. With longer battles, superior firepower and armor will decide who wins. Being stuck with a mech that is unlikely to destroy the enemy isn't fun.

Outnumbered. In any 2v1 or similar situation, the lone pilot is pretty much completely doomed. As it takes longer now to disable or destroy a mech, it is decided beforehand that he'll get swarmed and lose, even if he's elite. Hopelessness is not fun.

And in closing, my best argument: Killing things is fun, more armor makes killing things take longer. Therefore, less fun is had.

I agree with all your points there... I just think they make the game more true to Battletech and more fun.  It should not be easy for light mechs to defeat assaults and it should not be easy for one mech to defeat two others at once.  For me, longer battles make the kill at the end more rewarding, and separate this game from every other shooter available.  This is a game about giant walking tanks, where a single mech can be in use for generations.... they shouldn't go down in five seconds of single combat. 

If you have read any of the battletech fiction, you know that mechs often turn and run when they are outmatched, direct combat between two mechs can last 10 minutes or all day if they keep ducking in and out of cover, and mechs rarely survive being attacked two on one.  These changes seem to be working as intended, and from my perspective, they make the game better all around.

[Rally]

I say it's pretty good that his only complaint in that whole post is that ECM is working as intended.  I think we all knew we would hear a few "My favorite mech isn't as OP as is was before" posts.  It is a bummer than a bunch of people spent countless hours working on content he could be bored with in one hour, but I think most reasonable people will see that as a reflection on him and not the mod.  I also don't think many people are going to added survivability and longer mech battles as a change for the worse.  To read his post you might think the only change we made was to remove the "IWIN" button from his missile-boat.

Seriously?

Madcat prime overpowered? Have you even tried it before? Did you know that in 0.2.0 it had at least 4 tons less weapons and equipment than any of the other Madcat variants and give or take a ton as much as the Vulture Prime. And now, it's completely worthless! Having mechs that no one in their right mind would buy isn't "working as intended" to me.

Yes, I speak for myself, of course this is my reflection. I don't have a squad of people that I represent with me or anything like that. Does that make what I post worthless?

And you're wrong, it's not the IWIN button that I'm looking for. Everytime I win, it's because I do my best and put effort into it. ^^ Oh, and the Madcat isn't a missile boat! How dare you even call it that!

[Rally]

I agree with all your points there... I just think they make the game more true to Battletech and more fun.  It should not be easy for light mechs to defeat assaults and it should not be easy for one mech to defeat two others at once.  For me, longer battles make the kill at the end more rewarding, and separate this game from every other shooter available.  This is a game about giant walking tanks, where a single mech can be in use for generations.... they shouldn't go down in five seconds of single combat. 

If you have read any of the battletech fiction, you know that mechs often turn and run when they are outmatched, direct combat between two mechs can last 10 minutes or all day if they keep ducking in and out of cover, and mechs rarely survive being attacked two on one.  These changes seem to be working as intended, and from my perspective, they make the game better all around.

I see you have a point. I guess I like it faster then. And I really would like for that to return, but if all of you think the way it's now is is best, then I won't stop you.

To make it clear, those outmatched situations I described. I'm not saying I want the weaker party to win, I just don't want the stronger one to win just because it's stronger. Fighting two mechs is hard, but before, with some nice moves and accurate weapon fire, you had a chance to take at least one of them out before you yourself go down. I feel that's much less likely in 0.3.0 and it's a shame. It's totally not a black and white change, it's slight.

Anyway, if we're talking battletech the boardgame, an AC20 could take out whole mechs in a single shot, or atleast critically damage them. In other words, it really hurt. ^^

[Rally]

I literally facepalmed when I read: "you have made my LRMs ineffective by adding in a lock-on delay for any target that is passive or has ECM"
 
After seeing months and months of thousands of posts decrying the overpowered nature of LRMs and players boating them, to see this response leaves me completely without words to express my disbelief.

I admit this is one tough situation to be it. Well in that case, you shouldn't listen to them, listen to me instead. ^^

Besides, I'm only talking about one Mad Cat variant. And seriously, if you can't say that the Mad Cat Prime is doing fine, just say I'm right (and fix it please). ^^

[Landros Radick]

Thanks for the input Rally! With all the drastic balance changes, we're still evaluating how everything is going to play out. So while some of us don't understand your situation, we do appreciate the deviation from the train! We definitely want to hear from people about if it's no longer fun for them and what ruined it (as long as it's constructive)!

[Incubus 24-7]

More armor makes it easier to disengage from battle. Being powerless to stop your enemy from getting away is not fun.

Lighter mechs are even more unlikely to defeat bigger ones. Any creative maneuvering they pull won't have much effect. With longer battles, superior firepower and armor will decide who wins. Being stuck with a mech that is unlikely to destroy the enemy isn't fun.

Outnumbered. In any 2v1 or similar situation, the lone pilot is pretty much completely doomed. As it takes longer now to disable or destroy a mech, it is decided beforehand that he'll get swarmed and lose, even if he's elite. Hopelessness is not fun.

And in closing, my best argument: Killing things is fun, more armor makes killing things take longer. Therefore, less fun is had.

sorry mate, but I have to disagree.
the points above are only true if u keep shooting at the torso.
U now have to concentrate your fire on one area to disable or kill your enemy. I agree that this is hard work and takes a lot of practice, but to me and i dare say to a lot of pilots out there it is MORE FUN.
I just killed a pilot of a bigger mech with my uller. I kept aiming at his cockpit, and after a few shots and a few misses i managed to kill him.
so keep getting better as a pilot and you will discover, that the update means more fun for you.
cheer up lad and get out there AND HAVE SOME FUN!

[HAARP]

While I really enjoy the increased lock-on time for LRMs, it just takes too long to be worthwhile. I think you increased the time by 100%; 50% would've been better.

[DFDelta]

While I really enjoy the increased lock-on time for LRMs, it just takes too long to be worthwhile. I think you increased the time by 100%; 50% would've been better.

While it is true that the LRM lock on is so slow that they are hard to use efficiently now, I think their damage was also buffed.
I had one game earlier today on Marshes where I was running around in a Raven and kept narcing targets, while a single person (I think it was (TLL)ShdNx) armed with dual LRM20s kept blasting them to bits pretty fast.
Maybe they will become less of a Rambo weapon for Nomads and more of a external guided artillery now.

Anyway, if we're talking battletech the boardgame, an AC20 could take out whole mechs in a single shot, or atleast critically damage them. In other words, it really hurt. ^^

Remember: Just because it deals 20 damage in one turn, and to a single part of a mech, it does not mean that it only shoots once.
AC2s fully automatic weapons, too, but they still only hit one part each turn.
The AC20 just shows that it is able to inflict 20 damage over a set amount of time (1 turn). It can be anything, from a 50mm gun shooting 15 times/turn to a huge 250mm cannon shooting only once.

[MaximusPayne]

To read his post you might think the only change we made was to remove the "IWIN" button from his missile-boat.

WTF? There was an Iwin button??? Godammit! Now you tell me???
 

[Rally]

Thanks for the input Rally! With all the drastic balance changes, we're still evaluating how everything is going to play out. So while some of us don't understand your situation, we do appreciate the deviation from the train! We definitely want to hear from people about if it's no longer fun for them and what ruined it (as long as it's constructive)!

Thanks for understanding. I'll continue to play the game and I'll try to have as much fun as possible. Anyway, please let me know if the dev team makes a decision on one of the two issues I've proposed, I'm very interested in what you think.

[Toth]

Thanks for the input Rally! With all the drastic balance changes, we're still evaluating how everything is going to play out. So while some of us don't understand your situation, we do appreciate the deviation from the train! We definitely want to hear from people about if it's no longer fun for them and what ruined it (as long as it's constructive)!

Thanks for understanding. I'll continue to play the game and I'll try to have as much fun as possible. Anyway, please let me know if the dev team makes a decision on one of the two issues I've proposed, I'm very interested in what you think.

The global decrease in damage was an intentional change and is not likely to change soon. We simply didn't like how long battles were lasting, it made things far too dependant on who saw who first, not necessarily tactics or equipment usage.

As for the Madcat, just turn off the pulse lasers if you think it makes it too hot, or use chain fire. No one makes you alpha strike 

LRM lock-on times may be adjusted further, but the passive/gecm mechanics are here to stay.

[MercenaryMuffin]

People will bitch no matter what the devs do. Personally, I think 0.3 feels like a whole new game. A really GOOD game. All of the issues I had with 0.2 have been fixed, combat is more fun than ever, and the whole thing feels polished over all.
Big thumbs up.

[Redvan]

^^ Oh, and the Madcat isn't a missile boat! How dare you even call it that!

And with the increased LRM lock on time, a passive enemy can hit me twice and be back in cover laughing before I get a chance to launch missiles. I mean, the new lock on time for LRMs is an interesting feature, but it's killing one of the most iconic mechs in battletech. So it should go.

well, here's my take on this:  Madcat isn't a missile boat, therefore it's pretty obvious that it should have an increased lock on time.  I'm imagine a dedicated boat would have a lesser lock on time (however i'm not promoting that).  Since it's not a dedicated boat, perhaps the madcat should be used more as a team aspect weapon.

Narcs and TAGs baby, Narcs and TAGs.

To me it makes sense that something thats not a dedicated boat would need to rely more on these.

So if that version of the madcat becomes worthless w/o team coordination, then so be it.

I've always said all missiles should rely more on team aspects due to their extreme simplicity.

This really is shaping up to be a good patch

still haven't played.

[sleet01]

I'm still downloading so I don't know for sure, but... perhaps this is part of the push to make support-class mechs more useful / desirable?  The release notes said that C3 'mechs now get a cash bonus for spotting new enemies, and that buffs and debuffs on radar range stack, so perhaps your slow-locking Madcat will benefit from having a C3 / TAG Raven around?  The Raven can't hit worth beans but  perhaps his BAP, C3, and TAG will get you hitting faster while rewarding its pilot for performing a vital support role?