Tanks: Public's opinion?

[Zaro27]

Getting back on topic...

Tanks suck. They're too wobbly, under-armored, overpriced, and outgunned. Something's gotta change. Either keep the price and weapons the same and beef up the armor, keep everything the same and reduce price, or keep price and armor the same and beef up the guns.

Wobble needs to be fixed in all scenarios.

[HAARP]

Still, modern Ablative armor is in thin layers, sandwiched between thicker layers of denser materials.

As is Battletech armor.

from TechManual:

   Standard BattleMech armor consists of multiple layers.
Only two of these layers are armor in the truest sense. The
other two layers play supporting roles.
   The outer layer of armor is an extremely strong, extremely
hard iron alloy...a steel. It is intended to fragment projec-
tiles and/or—hey, have you heard anyone use “and/or” aloud
before?—to fragment projectiles and/or ablate protectively
in the face of energy attacks. The grains of this steel, that is,
its crystals, are carefully aligned for maximum strength and
radiation-treated to further hardness and strength. Though
phenomenally strong and hard, the steel pays for these prop-
erties by being quite brittle. In fact, the steel is brittle enough
that the second layer of armor that backs the steel is a ce-
ramic, cubic boron nitride.
   The point of the boron nitride layer is to act as a catcher’s
mitt for the fragments and plasma of the steel. Another very
strong, very hard material with a brittleness problem, boron
nitride is carefully processed to avoid any porosity and incor-
porates an additional web of artificial diamond fibers to make
the ceramic a fine backstop for the steel outer layer.
Now, during the Succession Wars, some armor manufactur-
ers lost the fiber-making techniques and resorted to diamond
powders, which could be made from natural diamonds. This
spiked demand and provided a great excuse for some of the
greatest jewel robberies in history. The good news is, recovery
of fiber-making technology in the last half century has virtu-
ally eliminated natural diamonds as an industrial commodity,
and so diamond jewelry’s value has returned to normal. The
bad news is, there are a lot of scams running around. Those
of you who donated jewelry to the “Armor Reconstruction
Charity” and other “charitable institutions” to aid Kaumberg’s re-
cent explosion of bandit-hunters...yes, you’ve been had.
   Now, the next layer below the boron nitride is a titanium alloy
honeycomb. The honeycomb provides no armor protection per
se, but is instead used to support the armor layers. The first and
second armor layers are very thin—in terms of millimeters and
centimeters—because ’Mechs have a lot of surface area to cover
with only a proportionately light quantity of armor. Because this
tends to make armor surprisingly thin for its length and width,
much like a large pane of glass, the titanium honeycomb keeps
the armor in place and prevents it from flexing too much under
stress. Remember the endo-steel discussion and cardboard? The
same principle applies here.
   Finally, there’s a polymer sealant layer. Because the armor is
configured into multiple, separately replaceable panels, this seal-
ant is needed to keep the ’Mech air- and water-tight. The poly-
mers chosen for the role usually have some self-sealing capability,
enough to handle small punctures and gaps. Though this pales in
comparison to the Clan HarJel system, it is this layer that allows
BattleMechs to operate underwater and in vacuum.

Other Materials
   Of course, standard armor doesn’t cover everything on a ’Mech.
Armor over the actuators can be a wide range of protective mate-
rials, from ballistic/ablative fabrics to carefully articulated plates
of standard armor. Cockpit canopies use a wide range of trans-
parent armor combinations, with anything from ferroglass to al-
ternating diamond and polymer sheets.

    Ferro-fibrous Armor: One of the oldest-newest armor types
is ferro-fibrous, which differs little from standard armor except to
add a weave of diamond fibers to the steel layer itself. This is actu-
ally quite an accomplishment since molten iron and carbon get
along real well, if you know what I mean.
    ...Or if you don’t, I mean iron reacts with carbon, so the diamond
would dissolve unless you’re clever. The fiber protection tech-
niques involved result in bulkier—yet lighter—armor. Pioneered in
the Star League era, the technology was lost to us for a time, but
the Clans (of course) have had more practice with this technology.
Theirs is an even more efficient version that is somewhat denser,
and may also be shaped better, to maximize internal volume. Inner
Sphere ferro-fibrous, by comparison, is a bugger to shape in any-
thing other than flat plates, thanks to its bulk.
    On the other hand, various groups in the Inner Sphere have
been making some groundbreaking progress by varying the
amount of fiber in the armor. “Light” ferro-fibrous armor has less
fiber reinforcement, making it less bulky but also less protective,
while “heavy” ferro-fibrous armor uses more fiber to gain protec-
tive capabilities greater than even Clan armor, but with enormous
bulk. Personally, I think the names are reversed, as the so-called
“heavy ferro” is lighter by weight than the “light ferro”, but I wasn’t
consulted during the naming process, so...

[(TLL) Heretic]

+1 to HAARP for the quote.

[ratbuddy]

Take a Bushwacker-A and stand it next to a Demolisher-C. Both have a pair of RAC/5's. Start firing just the RACs, demo aims center mass and bushy aims for turret. The demo will die every time while the bushy has plenty of armor left. The bushy has secondary weapons available, and moves much faster.. The demo costs 30k more.

[ratbuddy]

Take a Bushwacker-A and stand it near a Demolisher-C. Both have a pair of RAC/5's. Start firing just the RACs, demo aims center mass and bushy aims for turret. The demo will die every time while the bushy has plenty of armor left. The bushy has secondary weapons available, and moves much faster.. The demo costs 30k more.

[CHHš Aethon]

Take a Bushwacker-A and stand it next to a Demolisher-C. Both have a pair of RAC/5's. Start firing just the RACs, demo aims center mass and bushy aims for turret. The demo will die every time while the bushy has plenty of armor left. The bushy has secondary weapons available, and moves much faster.. The demo costs 30k more.

This.

Oh, and a comparison between the Demolisher A and the Mad Dog A would be another similar case.  The tank costs 15K more, in this case, which is rather odd, considering the Mad Dog (and its weapons/equipment) is all Clan tech, versus the IS tech Demolisher.

[ratbuddy]

Oops, I hit quote when I meant to hit modify, just to change it from 'next to' to 'near'... Oh well. Point is, even at non-point blank, the medium mech kills the assault tank even though the mech costs WAY less.

[=KoS= Saber15]

Take a Bushwacker-A and stand it next to a Demolisher-C. Both have a pair of RAC/5's. Start firing just the RACs, demo aims center mass and bushy aims for turret. The demo will die every time while the bushy has plenty of armor left. The bushy has secondary weapons available, and moves much faster.. The demo costs 30k more.

This.

Oh, and a comparison between the Demolisher A and the Mad Dog A would be another similar case.  The tank costs 15K more, in this case, which is rather odd, considering the Mad Dog (and its weapons/equipment) is all Clan tech, versus the IS tech Demolisher.

And the Mad Dog has the advantage of support weapons; if a Gauss demolisher gets attacked by battle armor, he has to have either really good aim, or be fighting a dumb BA that he can run over.

[MerfMerf]

Take a Bushwacker-A and stand it next to a Demolisher-C. Both have a pair of RAC/5's. Start firing just the RACs, demo aims center mass and bushy aims for turret. The demo will die every time while the bushy has plenty of armor left. The bushy has secondary weapons available, and moves much faster.. The demo costs 30k more.

This.

Oh, and a comparison between the Demolisher A and the Mad Dog A would be another similar case.  The tank costs 15K more, in this case, which is rather odd, considering the Mad Dog (and its weapons/equipment) is all Clan tech, versus the IS tech Demolisher.

And the Mad Dog has the advantage of support weapons; if a Gauss demolisher gets attacked by battle armor, he has to have either really good aim, or be fighting a dumb BA that he can run over.

Then +1 for a price reduction (And of course fix so they can move up hills but that kinda go without saying).

Any similar comparison done for the prime?
All I know is I think that one is though and rips through armour really good. I have not factored in any prices (since I am just on the receiving end and not actually buying the things), so for me a comparison on this also would be quite enlightening.

/Merf - ¿<><

[(TLL)Sky_walker]

Then +1 for a price reduction (And of course fix so they can move up hills but that kinda go without saying).

Any similar comparison done

hmmmmm?

[MerfMerf]

Thanks for pointing me to the post, but that was not quite the same was it?
Its comparing Bushwacker B with Oro Prime no? I was asking for Demolisher Prime.

/Merf - Almost! But not quite...