Battle Armor changes

[HAARP]

Yeah. Well all know how much people like to whine about their precious assault mechs getting roflstomped by some squishy BA dudes
I have a few ideas how BAs could be changed, making them more fun while at the same time satisfying mech jocks, nerfing ejecting pilots and overall improving the game (hopefully )



First off, there's this post by Square:

Ok so the best solution i'm hearing and probably easiest to implement would be to make the default BA weapon into the Bear AC.  Sure the BA's have their SRMs still but without the small laser their ability to damage mechs drops about 40%.

A dev is actually considering this for the future (not next patch), and I am aswell, but kind of differently. Here's what I would change:

- There is only one interchangeable primary weapon that can't be taken into the cockpit.

- The Bear AC (the rotary BA cannon) is replaced by a fixed anti-personell MG slung under the claw (look at the pic, BAs are supposed to have one anyway) that does the same damage as the Bear AC. It CAN be taken into the cockpit (since it can't be dropped). This is the new default weapon instead of the lazor. Moderate damage against armor, high damage against soft targets. Good allround weapon for self-defense.

- SRMs stay the same. Maybe, just maybe reduce the ammo to 4 only for ejecting pilots. An SRM replicator pack (needs a better name) can be bought at APCs free of charge
- Alternative 1: SRMs are completely removed when entering vehicles. The launcher needs to be bought again at an APC. This makes a lot of sense, since the launcher CAN be discarded from the Elemental suit in lore!
- Alternative 2: Remove the infinite SRM supply and replace them with buyable missiles. You can carry up to 10 missiles (just like C8), which do slightly less damage than C8 charges. C8 itself is removed instead. SRM reload time is increased.
This would also allow us to replace Inferno grenades with Inferno SRMs (which actually exist. I can't say the same about Inferno nades ). Switch between standard SRM/Inferno SRM with mousewheel.

- Mouse1 fires primary weapon. Mouse2 fires the MG (can't be fired if the primary weapon has been fired within the last 3 seconds). Mouse3 fires the SRMs (same limitation as for MG). This would reduce the annoying switching around of weapons.

- Additionally, this idea posted by AAA might also be interesting to make BAs less of a threat unless they are really dedicated:

Definitely agree about making the MicroHL expensive as hell.   I would like to see it cost the full 49k, honestly.  It would add a sense of progression to BA, rather than starting out with all of their abilities (by abilities, I mean loadout - all the extra grenades, secondary weapon, etc), they have to earn it by not suicide rushing from the APC.   Once you get a rank or a kill, you can afford to ditch the MPSBL for a mPPC, or pick up some extra C8s and Inferno/NARC grenades.  Right now, any CDT who just joined the game is as potent a BA threat as the person who's been BA'ing it up for 40 minutes..

[Kyatlu]

I think one of the best things to do for BAs is to ejecting pilots not having BA armor or weponry, but simply have some jetpacks to return to base. Now that there's the respawnable APC, BA no longer has the issue to "walk" all the way from base to front lines. In the worst case, one that plans to play BA can buy an APC, drive it near frontlines and buy the necessary BA equipment and fight.

That being said I think BA's need some "enhancements" rather than beefing or nerfing (not that the op mentioned nerfing or beefing, I'm saying so because most people take on the subject as such). I believe BAs are supposed to fight in groups yes? So it would  be nice to have some sort of squad forming for BA players, like there's for Battlefield series so they would communicate and work as a group.

As for the BA SRM, my take is that it would have a set ammo counter than being infinite. Also like grenade types, different types of BA SRM would be nice.

[DFDelta]

That being said I think BA's need some "enhancements" rather than beefing or nerfing (not that the op mentioned nerfing or beefing, I'm saying so because most people take on the subject as such). I believe BAs are supposed to fight in groups yes? So it would  be nice to have some sort of squad forming for BA players, like there's for Battlefield series so they would communicate and work as a group.

A single player is already representing a group of 5 BA

I think one of the best things to do for BAs is to ejecting pilots not having BA armor or weponry, but simply have some jetpacks to return to base. Now that there's the respawnable APC, BA no longer has the issue to "walk" all the way from base to front lines. In the worst case, one that plans to play BA can buy an APC, drive it near frontlines and buy the necessary BA equipment and fight.

This is one of the worst possible options IMHO.
If ejecting creates a huge downtime of 5 minutes, where you are completely helpless, slow and useless, then why eject at all?



About HAARPs changes:
I was thinking in a similar direction.
Remove the SRMS from pilots and limit them to "small arms" is what I wanted to propose. (SBL, TAG, BearAC).
Make it possible to "loot" the SRMs from a dead enemy BA and everything is fine.


The idea with the BearAC as a hardmounted weapon is a good one, too. It would need a slight buff to damage and range, but I see no reason why this could not be done.
It would be canon if BA had a hardmounted MG and a swapable main gun, and it would be a good way to raise dedicated BA over ejected pilots.
Maybe give people the choice to swap it for the TAG.

- Alternative 2: Remove the infinite SRM supply and replace them with buyable missiles. You can carry up to 10 missiles (just like C8), which do slightly less damage than C8 charges. C8 itself is removed instead.

I think I could like this.
But if something like this is made, and SRMs are limited, APCs should get some sort of slight buff. Maybe an added GECM or some extra armor.
I would like it even more if there was a APC that is useful even when piloted.
So we could have a team of 1 tanker and 2 or 3 BA working together. (Maxim Hover-APC  )




(EDIT: Damn, took me 6 edits to make this readable, lol)

[=KoS=Zeus]

Why not just enable both the anti-personnel MG and the right arm primary weapon and missiles to be fired simultaneously just like a mech? The ability to do so is in the code already it's just a matter of shifting the animations so that the arms are held pointing forward. Would it look a little lame? Sure, but unless you are in melee range of the claw nobody is really going to notice (or care) when you're a dedicated elemental firing an AC/2 and a Bear AC with missiles flying? Mouse 1, Mouse 2, Mouse 3 respectively.

[SquareSphere }12thVR{]

The firing weapons based on mouse buttons is a good "enhancement" but if I had to choose I'd want a better BA hud that at IDs what grid i'm in at least gives me a directional indicator if targets are nearby but beyond the compass "map".  Not to mention it could display the status of ammo count and readiness.

but yeah infinite SRMs need to go away.  I like the idea of getting rid of grenades and replacing them with buyable specialized SRM rounds.

The must carry anti BA weapon is good too.  I'd go one step further and say that if a BA goes into a mech they get stripped of the 2nd weapons and SRM rounds are reduced to 2 (if they're carrying more than 2).  Give them the cash back as refund for fairness.

[Kyatlu]

I think one of the best things to do for BAs is to ejecting pilots not having BA armor or weponry, but simply have some jetpacks to return to base. Now that there's the respawnable APC, BA no longer has the issue to "walk" all the way from base to front lines. In the worst case, one that plans to play BA can buy an APC, drive it near frontlines and buy the necessary BA equipment and fight.

This is one of the worst possible options IMHO.
If ejecting creates a huge downtime of 5 minutes, where you are completely helpless, slow and useless, then why eject at all?

Because you accumulated more cbills by damaging the enemy than the amount you would respawn with? Or maybe you don't want to count against team respawn tickets? Or you just want to play realistic and not go suicidal? And it really is not 5 minutes, I can jumpjet from the middle of any map to base in about 1,5 minute. Even than because of being lighter (no weapons) jumpjet could be made to propell longer if it's still too much time. It's one of the small thinks that sticks my eye, piloting a mech in BA. I don't know if it's just easier to have BA sit in the cockpit technically for the beta or the devs planned pilots ejecting and continue to fight, if latter is the case it's bad design choice IMHO.

[HAARP]

Why not just enable both the anti-personnel MG and the right arm primary weapon and missiles to be fired simultaneously just like a mech?

Because the current method of switching BA weapons was actually made so BAs couldn't "alpha-strike".

[Deathbane]

My take on it is this.

All ba weapons, apart from bear autocannon and small laser should be made BA dedicated only.

THe bear autocannon should be the default weapon you spawn with, instead of the small laser.

Also, the SRM pack should be made a separate, dedicated BA weapon.

So when you spawn, you get the SRM pack and BAC. If you were to then get into a mech, you would be stripped of the srm pack, and would have to rebuy it. The SRM pack works normally besides that.

This would allow ejected pilots to still be useful. Upon ejecting, they still can defend themselves and do SOME damage to mechs, but robbed of grenades,their srm pack, and one random inventory weapon, theyre much less of a threat. No more ejecting with the other weapons like MPPC either. This also allows the other ba weapons to be rebalanced for dedicated BA players.

[Reiel]

I like HAARPs idea, +1.

[Brainwright]

Haven't we denigrated the Bear AC enough by making it nothing more than a glorified machine gun?

I tell you what, give it an ammo box of about 100 rounds and let it be comparable in damage to the AC2.  The limited ammo store means that it is unlikely to be very effective against anything but damaged mechs and other BA, where it only needs to squeeze off a few accurate rounds.

SBL should remain the standard weapon.  Sorry folks, but BA need to remain a threat to mechs, and the SBL is the only weapon with that magic mix of firepower, range, and accuracy.  Why you ask?  Because otherwise, BA are simply hunted down indiscriminately as free kills.  Plus, you've made the standard BA only useful if there's other BA on the field.  Though the damage in the current version could probably do with some tamping down.

As for the SRMs, give two versions.  One is a detachable SRM that only holds two missiles.  The other is a fixed SRM that can hold up to six.  Both have to be bought, but only the detachable version can be brought onto a mech.  Yeah, I like the idea of replacing grenades with more powerful missiles.  Naturally, you're going to have make an SRM-free version of each battle armor for this to work.  Dunno if there's any will for that.

In general, all BA should have more durability as it fits their construction and allows them to do things like use the TAG.  Or at least, for god's sake, take that red box off them when they're behind cover.

[Snowball]

To be honest, I'm digging these ideas.

It'll quell down all the BA IZ OVERPOWERED NERF NAO characters while still keeping dedicated BA an effective in-game asset.  It'll also increase the importance of apcs (plural there) in the field in case people need to rearm/swap weapons/decide to become a dedicated BA.

I'm for the price jump for the MHL, but only after more BA toys become available; as it stands right now, it may be a bit too easily available, but the BA have all of what, 6 guns?  Let them play, it's not that big of a deal 

The one thing I'm iffy over is the time limitations on the weaponry, but if this is a code problem and not a feature of the proposed idea, then there's not much that can be done about it.

Additional:

I'd like to see the implementation of different BA "packs", much like some of those that have already been mentioned (the SRM Magic Missile Maker, or SRMMMM).  Specifically, I'd like to see a separate jump pack that gives extreme low-angle flight times and decent speed while limiting vertical jump height, allowing BA to scurry about more quickly while limiting the terrain they can access.  It's installed as a enhancement to the standard JJ, but can be dropped (maybe with the '4' key) to resume normal BA JJ operation.

TL;DR: a booster pack for getting to the fight quicker that can be ditched for normal JJ's or kept for increased low-level mobility.

[SquareSphere }12thVR{]

SBL should remain the standard weapon.  Sorry folks, but BA need to remain a threat to mechs, and the SBL is the only weapon with that magic mix of firepower, range, and accuracy.  Why you ask?  Because otherwise, BA are simply hunted down indiscriminately as free kills. 

Pilot BA would hunted sure, it would put emphasis on them trying to get to an APC or Hanger to rearm as opposed to staying out in the field.  Dedicated BAs spawning from an APC are still as dangerous as ever.  The whole point is to reduce the blurr between dedicated BAs and Pilot BAs.  Also to reduce BA's just getting in a harrasser to get to the front line quickly (that's the role APCs are supposed to serve).

[DFDelta]

I'd like to see the implementation of different BA "packs", much like some of those that have already been mentioned (the SRM Magic Missile Maker, or SRMMMM).  Specifically, I'd like to see a separate jump pack that gives extreme low-angle flight times and decent speed while limiting vertical jump height, allowing BA to scurry about more quickly while limiting the terrain they can access.  It's installed as a enhancement to the standard JJ, but can be dropped (maybe with the '4' key) to resume normal BA JJ operation.

I think vertical jumps should always be possibe, maybe if you jump while running (shift).

But to add to that "better JJ in certain conditions":
I think a good idea could be to raise JJ energy and recharge speed if you have discarded your SRMs, either because they are empty or because you just ejected (and pilots don't have SRM)

[RickHunter]

+1 Haarp... lolz @ Snowball!

[Clownmite]

Ejected BA's should have a much harder time firing when jumping (actually, I think BAs in general should, but especially ejected ones). This means they can no longer fly around all higgledy-piggledy after you blow up their mech. Also, some weapons could pull energy from the JJ meter, making maneuvering and shooting much more strategic.

Basically, I like HAARP's idea. BA going into a 'mech would get a "pilot suit" - only able to carry one weapon (likely bear autocannon). They keep jump capability (if only to aid them getting back to base), but they can't shoot effectively while jumping, forcing them to stay on the ground (and thus an easy target) if they need to shoot something.

A dedicated BA suit could cost a bit of money (or not). The BA suit gets you srms, and you can carry up to 2 other weapons, as it is now. All BA weapons cost a significant bit more than they do now (as other posters have said, to keep a sense of progression in BA-only players). As I said above, I think a bit of shake (not as dramatic as 'mech JJ shake, but more dramatic than what we have now, i,e, actually shaking the reticule a bit) would help combat the extremely mobile BA being untouchable and still able to fire off perfect shots.

That would leave some room to buy an elite BA suit for lots of money, which would have no jump shake (or at least, not enough to shake the reticule), and the same ability to carry 3 weapons.