So where are the AA vehicles?

[n6]

So far the best defense against air is leading them back to your base and letting the point defense take care of them. But to skilled pilots this doesn't really work.

The AA vehicles need some REAL help. Sure they will take down noobs, then again so can a long tom. But to people who have a handle of how to fly the planes, there is hardly any defense other than sending up a plane of your own. But if on a team with no experience pilots. You will get out numbed in the air and die.

If someone is going to forfeit their ability to become an mech by being AA ground support, their commitment shouldn't become so worthless.

[xInVicTuSx]

Complete commitment to AA is a rare need.
Most of the time you want something that can spook off aircraft and then return to fight mechs.
Something like the RAc5 hollander can work well for that early game. RAc5 for light mechs UAc2s for aircraft.
Anything with an LBX or UAC2/5 or RAC 2/5 or ERLL will work. Even some Mguns are decent at scaring vtols.
Don't be expecting to kill the areo consistently even with a dedicated AA tank. The goal is to spook him off so you can then return to battle. If AA tank meant instant GG to areo, like last patch, no one would use areo and that would be lame.
Only go dedicated AA if you see three shivas raping your whole team.

[SquareSphere }12thVR{]

pretty much on the head InVictusx.  Aero's are like "mechs" in the air they're best handled by another aero, just like mechs are great against other mechs.  AA tanks fill in the support AA role to help friendly Aero, much like land tanks help (or they should) help support mechs.

that being said the Huit prime can really toast some air assets.

[DFDelta]

that being said the Huit prime can really toast some air assets.

The Partisan B is a real monster, too.
And you can get it earlier.
I can use it efficiently to kill anything, even Sparrowhawks.
Only downside is that you need a APC nearby, the 4 tons off extra ammo are not nearly enough for prolonged AA duty.


For general flak purpose use only 2 RACs, and swich when the RACs are close to overheating. This way you can lay down a constant stream of fire.
Only use all 4 RAC if something is diving right at you or someone near you (guranteed hits, rapes even a Shiva in a few seconds)
When targeting sparrowhawks, don't aim at them. Spray the area around them with bullets. That makes dodging harder for them, and even a few hits will bring it down.

[Lucentdragon]

pretty much on the head InVictusx.  Aero's are like "mechs" in the air they're best handled by another aero, just like mechs are great against other mechs.  AA tanks fill in the support AA role to help friendly Aero, much like land tanks help (or they should) help support mechs.

that being said the Huit prime can really toast some air assets.

    Let me just step in here on this one real quick,mostly for the bolded part.This feels broken to me.I heard somewhere that the devs were shooting for a rock/paper/scissors kind of balance (is that still true? i'm not sure ,have to ask around.). anyways,if the best counter to scissors.....is scissors,then that's not good.Because while aero's might be the best counter to aero's...they are also the best counter to....well...pretty much everything right now.Tanks,other aero's,most definitely mechs.

    That being said,everything else in the game seems to play well together.Mechs,tanks,BA,artillery.They all have thier strengths and weaknesses.With "AA" the way it currently is (virtually useless imo),what is an aero's weakness?
   
    Don't get me wrong,I'm glad the devs added that crouch/aim deal on mechs.But it's pretty much a moot point really with the current levels of aero armor.Speaking of aero armor,as a funny(and slightly saddening) side note.I was flying around in a tbolt sulla the other day,dove literally straight at an arrow IV mad cat mk II's face,dropped my payload and zoomed on off.Suddenly I noticed a missile warning,I didn't pay it much attention because missiles are virtually worthless against an aircraft at full throttle anyways.So,I go in for a landing to rearm and repair some very slight yellow dmg to one of my wings (because i'm ocd like that),throttle back,not even realizing I still have a missile klaxon going off.About that time 2 arrow IV's (guess the cat managed to get a lock on me when i was on my way out) slam into my rear end.....and did absolute junk  for damage.My entire planed turned yellow,and the wing that was originally yellow went to orange.That is it.Now really...who here can say that 2 arrow IV's slamming into a sulla shouldn't kill it? I've had arrow IV's nail fresh off the assembly line heavy mechs and damn near cripple them.What's going on with that??

    Anyways,back on topic,sorry for the tangent.As it stands right now,ANTI AIR is basically used ,for the most part,to "spook" planes...not do what it's name and role would imply...and be anti air units.I'm not saying things should be reverted to .2.0 status where a party van could look at an aero side ways and it would explode in a spectacular fireball,but right now is just too much.Used to be,If there was an aero or two dominating our mechs/tanks as they are want to do,I'd grab an AA vehicle and commit the rest of my game to being AA so my mech and tank buddies could do thier thing.As it stands now,I've stopped bothering.If I tank an "AA" tank out I basically feel like I'm spitting confetti at aero's.The amount of concentrated fire (which ranges from difficult to do to "shoot yourself in the face" ridiculous)  required to down even a sulla is preposterous.It sucks hard to be spraying right in an aero's face as he gleefully dives straight at you knowing there aint shit you can do to stop him.and you know what? at this point,he's pretty much right.

  Also,The one vehicle that has even the slightest chance of dinging the paint on aero's (in my humble opinion of course) is the huit prime.This asset is preposterously expensive,Very slow (max speed is what? 38 kph?),and annoying to maneuver (hope you don't have to move/run anywhere fast.).So basically,you have to manage to accumulate enough to purchase said vehicle,ponderously meander your way to the battlefield,and hope some aero decides to come within your killbox before one of his team mates comes along and demolishes you.Don't get me wrong,the huit is tough,no doubt about it.But the aero is just plain superior in every way (assuming equal skill).Fantastic maneuverability,good armor,reasonable cost ratio,INSANE damage potential....wait a minute....why is it i bother with mechs again?

[Zaro27]

I really want Alternative Ammo choices in. I can't wait to fill some bastards full of flak!

[Gravecoast]

I really want Alternative Ammo choices in. I can't wait to fill some bastards full of flak!

YES!
plus ASF aren't too bad.
I've been in a sitution where all the elite ASF pilots of my clan where on the other team on mirage and didn't have to much trouble dodging them. Plus Huey Prime Partis and other ASF, plus LBXs are great at making that brand new ASF just another flaming hulk of scrap

[Ruger]

The current AA tanks are very potent when used correctly, just lead the target.   The harasser with RAC2's does an admirable job of damaging and destroying all the aeros up to the Shiva.  If that's not working for you, there's the LBX partisan which is capable of instantly popping a aero in range with a direct hit from most of the LBX. 
As much as I love turning aeros into flaming piles of metallic confetti I have to admit in 0.2 they were hilariously unarmored.  A couple of shots of AC5 seemed to be able to turn the Shiva into a fireball.  Even now most aeros get shredded rather quickly unless the pilot knows exactly what he's doing. 

Not to mention the improved punishment mechs can dish out to Aeros now.  LBX 20 + Shiva = explosion and rain of aerodynamic surfaces.

[Snowball]

*peeks into thread

*looks around

*leaves

[HAARP]

I really want Alternative Ammo choices in. I can't wait to fill some bastards full of flak!

It's called LBX and is basically flak

[(TLL)Sky_walker]

I heard somewhere that the devs were shooting for a rock/paper/scissors kind of balance (is that still true? i'm not sure ,have to ask around.)

This isn't exactly true, at least - not from what I know.
Each unit has another group of unit that works best against it, but there are also units that work decent, and there are units that work poor. Also at certain conditions each unit is capable to defeat it's natural counter without risking much damage.

So it depends how you look at it. If you want to see the scissors-paper-rock you will see it, but it's not like that entirely.

[(TLL) Heretic]

I really want Alternative Ammo choices in. I can't wait to fill some bastards full of flak!

It's called LBX and is basically flak

I'd love to see this, proximity airburst AC5 shells.  Turns the AC5 into a grenade launcher and it's cannon to what the Partisan Prime should be firing Watching them popping around the ASF like fireworks, steadily shredding any ASF within 20m, now that's ack-ack fire!

For me the Jurey's still out on the AA-ASF balance at the moment, I hear a lot of folks complaining about the Shiva, but I don't really feel that the armour levels are off (maybe the nerfing of gauss against them in 0.2 is now overdone with their increased armour?).  I enjoy blasting chunks off of a 95ton ASF, armoured like a 0.2 Warhammer.

What needs looking at is the uber-weapons they carry, now they can survive to do their job (and RTB while only well toasted) they can be toned done a little surely.  The twin Heavy Gauss makes them a flying Fafnir and is OP in a MechAssault way (The Shiva would be ripped apart from the recoil of both, and would spin helplessly into the ground if it only fired one sides, twin Heavy Gauss is what makes the Fafnir unique).  The Firebombs (and now they seem to have reloads aboard?), I think that if they only did half the damage they do now then balance would be about right, 8 FBombs would feel right crippling an Atlas (orange to light red all over) 10-12 to kill it.   Right now a Shiva can one-shot any fresh ground asset in the game with the 6 Fbombs it carries in one pass (seen it done many times), currently the AA needs 2 attack passes (if the Shiva pilot is anything but a newby on flying skill) to destroy a Shiva. 

I think we'd hear a lot less complaining about ASF if they didn't carry the equivalent of an airborne-longtom (6 Firebombs), if they had to make 2 passes to destroy a medium, 3 for a heavy and 4 for an Assault then I think people would complain less and play would be better all around.  Sure that means that ASF would have to really work for their kills, take-off, dodge, drop, rtb, repair, reload, rinse & repeat 2-4 times for every kill; but I think the game would be better for that.

[(TLL)Sky_walker]

I'd love to see this, proximity airburst AC5 shells.  Turns the AC5 into a grenade launcher and it's cannon to what the Partisan Prime should be firing Watching them popping around the ASF like fireworks, steadily shredding any ASF within 20m, now that's ack-ack fire!

+1. I proposed it some time ago as a cure for the lag-shield, as all teleporting ASFs would be hit anyway - simply imagine an ASF flying in the cloud of explosions - no way it'd survive, even if it has the lag shield. Damage although would have to be quite low so that it wouldn't be a quick-kill-without-aim type of weapons. But anyway - it'd be a great thing to have.

I think we'd hear a lot less complaining about ASF if they didn't carry the equivalent of an airborne-longtom (6 Firebombs), if they had to make 2 passes to destroy a medium, 3 for a heavy and 4 for an Assault then I think people would complain less and play would be better all around. 

As far as I agree with need of nerf for Fbombs - the 4 approaches for Assault is an overkill. It'd mean that Fbomb Sulla would need to make 8 of them, rendering it entirely useless. Fbomb Shiva on the other hand would be exposed for so long that even a newbie with MBL could score a kill . Also hitting the light mech with Fbombs (which is very difficult task) wouldn't be rewarding at all for the Sulla.
I think that 10-20% damage reduction would be a good step for beginning. See if that's fine, if not -> lower the damage even more.

[(TLL) Heretic]

I'd love to see this, proximity airburst AC5 shells.  Turns the AC5 into a grenade launcher and it's cannon to what the Partisan Prime should be firing Watching them popping around the ASF like fireworks, steadily shredding any ASF within 20m, now that's ack-ack fire!

+1. I proposed it some time ago as a cure for the lag-shield, as all teleporting ASFs would be hit anyway - simply imagine an ASF flying in the cloud of explosions - no way it'd survive, even if it has the lag shield. Damage although would have to be quite low so that it wouldn't be a quick-kill-without-aim type of weapons. But anyway - it'd be a great thing to have.

I think we'd hear a lot less complaining about ASF if they didn't carry the equivalent of an airborne-longtom (6 Firebombs), if they had to make 2 passes to destroy a medium, 3 for a heavy and 4 for an Assault then I think people would complain less and play would be better all around. 

As far as I agree with need of nerf for Fbombs - the 4 approaches for Assault is an overkill. It'd mean that Fbomb Sulla would need to make 8 of them, rendering it entirely useless. Fbomb Shiva on the other hand would be exposed for so long that even a newbie with MBL could score a kill . Also hitting the light mech with Fbombs (which is very difficult task) wouldn't be rewarding at all for the Sulla.
I think that 10-20% damage reduction would be a good step for beginning. See if that's fine, if not -> lower the damage even more.

Your probably right on that.

I just realised that my "one-shot anything" statement is based on 0.2 tests that Kit did with Cuth that I was watching, and I don't really know if it's true of 0.3. 

[W4lt3r]

Wouldn't the rapid fire AC5 with air-burst rounds cause a lot of lag due to the # of explosions going around? Especially for the pilot of the ASF for being so close to the explosions?
Though it might be my own misjudgement in this case, but if it were right. Shouldn't there be a more slower ROF AC5 for such AA purpose? Like a ROF switch that has been suggested in another thread for the Rotary Autocannons to manage DPS / Heat up.