So where are the AA vehicles?

[Rasui]

I'd love to see this, proximity airburst AC5 shells.  Turns the AC5 into a grenade launcher and it's cannon to what the Partisan Prime should be firing Watching them popping around the ASF like fireworks, steadily shredding any ASF within 20m, now that's ack-ack fire!

+1. I proposed it some time ago as a cure for the lag-shield, as all teleporting ASFs would be hit anyway - simply imagine an ASF flying in the cloud of explosions - no way it'd survive, even if it has the lag shield. Damage although would have to be quite low so that it wouldn't be a quick-kill-without-aim type of weapons. But anyway - it'd be a great thing to have.

I think we'd hear a lot less complaining about ASF if they didn't carry the equivalent of an airborne-longtom (6 Firebombs), if they had to make 2 passes to destroy a medium, 3 for a heavy and 4 for an Assault then I think people would complain less and play would be better all around. 

As far as I agree with need of nerf for Fbombs - the 4 approaches for Assault is an overkill. It'd mean that Fbomb Sulla would need to make 8 of them, rendering it entirely useless. Fbomb Shiva on the other hand would be exposed for so long that even a newbie with MBL could score a kill . Also hitting the light mech with Fbombs (which is very difficult task) wouldn't be rewarding at all for the Sulla.
I think that 10-20% damage reduction would be a good step for beginning. See if that's fine, if not -> lower the damage even more.

Your probably right on that.

I just realised that my "one-shot anything" statement is based on 0.2 tests that Kit did with Cuth that I was watching, and I don't really know if it's true of 0.3.

The Shiva has 4 Fbombs not 6 with a reload of 4 more on a fairly long cooldown.

Also, I would like to note that the Fbomb Shiva is 150k C-bills (More expensive than many assault mechs) yet still capable of being disabled (essentially destroyed) by one alpha to the wing from an Hgauss Shiva, or shredded in seconds by a RAC5 Shiva. Too many people look at the damage capability that their loadouts provide without factoring in the considerable risks they take to employ them or the relative ease with which they can be rendered ineffective compared to any other asset in that price range.

[(TLL)Sky_walker]

Yea, the flak-type AC would need slower ROF, maybe also the AC2/5 would cause small explosions but AC10 would make a big one, so that it'd be also balanced in that matter. Finally-  the direct hit when done might cause small HUD shake in the way JJs have now, only much much smaller. So that you wouldn't be able to aim accurately with NARCs/Gauss.

[(TLL) Heretic]

Yea, the flak-type AC would need slower ROF, maybe also the AC2/5 would cause small explosions but AC10 would make a big one, so that it'd be also balanced in that matter. Finally-  the direct hit when done might cause small HUD shake in the way JJs have now, only much much smaller. So that you wouldn't be able to aim accurately with NARCs/Gauss.

+1 on that.

[Brainwright]

I don't think many people understand the concept of, "spooking."  If an asset is capable of spooking another, it has every ability to kill that asset if it gets too aggressive.  The spooker prevents the asset from becoming too bold in its attacks, forcing a hit and run strategy.

That's how it should be with ASF, anyhow.

[=KoS= Eldragon]

The problem with the "Spook em and go back to being a mech pilot" theory is that most of the time the Aircraft stick to their team's side of the battle, with the occasional pass into the middle of the battlefield. This means an AA unit has a very long drive from the hanger to get into position to fight the aircraft (Thanks to how slow the Partisan and Huit are). Once the aircraft have been destroyed, the AA unit can either turn around and do the long drive back and go purchase a mech, or stick around waiting for the next aerospace to show up. Sometimes this can be a very long time indeed.

In 0.2.0 I enjoyed doing Anti-Aircraft duty, The easy (too easy really) kill made up for the very long wait for the next aerospace target to show up. In 0.3.0 the reduced damage AC5/AC2 does to aircraft allows a skilled pilot (or the crappy hit detection when the server is full) to fly back to base for repairs. IMHO the AA units need to be just a little more effective on aircraft, just enough to encourage people to do dedicated AA work. Alternatively the AC2/AC5 can start dealing a little more damage to mechs.

[sgnl05]

I tend to agree. Spooking, useful as it may be, is boring. Really boring. You're basically asking someone to sit around in an asset that's somewhat unimpressive against most ground targets and wait until an aero shows up, not so he can actually kill it, but so that he can shoot at it until it gets annoyed and goes away for awhile. Meanwhile, he can shoot at ground units, but really if that was what he wanted to do he'd be better off in something that isn't AA. It's a thoroughly thankless job, and it becomes all the more thankless when the aero pilots catch on and just stop taking aero until he gets bored stiff and stops doing it, at which point they can take aero again.

[SquareSphere }12thVR{]

Yep, most of the comments echos what i've said in the other AA thread.  AA needs good team support to stay dedicated (APC any one?)

Sky watch is a boring, but occasionally AA can be anti BA too if the little buggers get too close on a deep raid.  I do love the LBX 5 partisan, just wish it a bit more range.

[The Saint]

I'm puzzled by threads such as these. When I play (mostly weekends), there are usually more than enough dedicated AAs on both teams. I also personally enjoy kicking back and playing AA all round if there's enough threats up.

[Gravecoast]

Yep, most of the comments echos what i've said in the other AA thread.  AA needs good team support to stay dedicated (APC any one?)

Sky watch is a boring, but occasionally AA can be anti BA too if the little buggers get too close on a deep raid.  I do love the LBX 5 partisan, just wish it a bit more range.

Have to concur with this. Sometimes when I'm doing BA raids I wish my ASF was a little less effective when they're 3 partis or huits about >_> makes a BA's life very stressful lol But yeah decent AA does need support. Also MHL any ASF trying to do a pass on your BA team is very very satisfying

[Freakazoid]

If you can afford it, the Mauler Prime is both a decent AA vehicle and has enough firepower to take out medium/light mechs. I've taken out shivas at full health alone, but they typically drop their payload on you before they die. Thankfully the mauler can survive a couple of them.

I honestly have trouble justifying most AA vehicles anymore that can't take on aero alone. It's just so much easier for aeros to retreat and repair than any other asset in the game. The downtime between retreating and repairing is a fraction of the time a mech or tank has. I find that rather unbalanced.

[ratbuddy]

Yeah, landing should be harder, and they should have to drive fully inside the hangar to repair or reload.. Being able to reload bombs while flying over the runway is just stupid.

[Brainwright]

In general, I think acceleration for all ground assets should be increased, with deceleration being the hooking point for most assets, particular at higher speeds.  For this thread, I think it would be great for those AA vehicles.   By the time you get a few shots off at aircraft, it's too late to just scoot out of the path of things like bombs and thunderbolts.

[4204ME]

I ran a beatstick today for the 1st time since 1.1. I  onshot the same shieva Pilot 3 times in a row and ran low on LBX 20. So I had to fire 2 volleys of lbx 10 to kill him the 4th time.

[Tsorevitch]

I ran a beatstick today for the 1st time since 1.1. I  onshot the same shieva Pilot 3 times in a row and ran low on LBX 20. So I had to fire 2 volleys of lbx 10 to kill him the 4th time.

Don't you think it's a bit strange situation when you need a hit from Massive anti armor canon to destroy a plane?
Planes should should be fast and survive by speed but in 3.0 they are a flying tanks capable of taking insane amount of damage.

Now AA is a paint to play (especially for clans with no starting  AA units at all). If there were a fast moving hover craft with good AA capability... NORMAL AA missiles (LRMs/SSRMsare useless as a AA weapon )  or nice array of dedicated AA guns this should solve the problem. AA support can get to needed point quickly and get out of the harm way if needed.

[(TLL)Sky_walker]

Shiva with 4 Firebombs costs much much more than Beatstick - it's cost is even above the Khan payday, so to fly it - you need to earn. Earn a lot.
Beatstick can 1-shot-kill Shiva without a problem.
Shiva weights 85 tons, only 5 tons less than Beatstick.
Shiva has 10 tons of armor, Madcat MK II has 13 tons. (different kind of armor, but still lots of it, and it's based on the beatstick armor concept)

So how is that weird, when you have to use massive anti-armor cannon to destroy it?

AA Missiles are nearly non-existant in BTU so... I wouldn't count on that too much. Primary AA weapons are cannons and lasers. See the image, with dense AA cover: