Autocannon split personality?

[Dirg]

Why do autocannons act so differently?

AC2, AC5, AC10 and AC20's are all named as they are based on the damage they inflict in a set time period. 2 models of AC20's may be designed completely differently, 1 model may fire 1 massive round of custom ammo doing "20" damage while another model may fire the exact same ammo as an AC2 but at an incredible speed causing "20" damage in the same set time frame. That is all classic AC lore.

However it doesn't translate well to live action. AC2's and AC5's are simply giant machine guns you spray at targets and damage varies greatly based on how well you stay on target while hundreds of rounds fly down range. AC10 and AC20's are single shot hit or miss weapons Dynamically different in function and application acting more like Gauss rifles or PPC's.

It just seems they should all function one way or another, I personally believe the AC10's and AC20's should fire like the AC2's and AC5's do just scaling the damage. Just something I find out of place as no other weapon system completely changes how it functions, Gauss all fire and act the same, as do all laser regardless of size.

[Rally]

Now way. Rate of fire for the big ACs was already dramatically increased in the last update. I sincerely doubt they can be made to shoot any faster.

[EvilMD]

I couldn't agree more. I despise the gumball behavior of the large bore autocannons. I would rather they behave like the ac/2 ac/5s with a lower rof.

[SquareSphere }12thVR{]

I'm wondering if Dirg is thinking about the old 0.2.0 AC mechanic of one huge shot for AC10-20s.

030 introduced AC10-20 being more about landing more shots over time than the huge one shot hit.  UAC feature double the rate of fire for 10-20 which really show the difference.

[EvilMD]

That's true but I still feel like I'm lobbing gumballs with the large bore autocannons.

[Dirg]

I'm wondering if Dirg is thinking about the old 0.2.0 AC mechanic of one huge shot for AC10-20s.

030 introduced AC10-20 being more about landing more shots over time than the huge one shot hit.  UAC feature double the rate of fire for 10-20 which really show the difference.

No even now you take an AC2 or AC5 hold the fire button down and spray like a machine gun and while they fire faster than before AC 10's and AC 20's are still distinctly a fire- wait for-reload - fire process. I don't see why they couldn't act precisely the same just use a different "damage per second" scale as they are fired. Adjusting their balance can be easily scaled by the weapons overheating rate.

[Threesan]

This sounds like you're describing Ultra and Rotary variants -- you could argue that the RAC2 falls between AC10 and AC20 damage, making it arguably designatable as something like an AC/15.7 by your perspective rather than an AC/2 class.

UAC2 -- AC/4.3
UAC5 -- AC/9.5
UAC10 -- AC/26.4
UAC20 -- AC/45.2

RAC2 -- AC/15.7
RAC5 -- AC/44.9

That the canon simultaneously holds that an AC/N can be rapid fire or slow-big fire, and that the Ultras and Rotaries deserve special designation separate from the AC/N system, is, to me as a BT outsider, inconsistent.

[Dirg]

This sounds like you're describing Ultra and Rotary variants -- you could argue that the RAC2 falls between AC10 and AC20 damage, making it arguably designatable as something like an AC/15.7 by your perspective rather than an AC/2 class.

UAC2 -- AC/4.3
UAC5 -- AC/9.5
UAC10 -- AC/26.4
UAC20 -- AC/45.2

RAC2 -- AC/15.7
RAC5 -- AC/44.9

That the canon simultaneously holds that an AC/N can be rapid fire or slow-big fire, and that the Ultras and Rotaries deserve special designation separate from the AC/N system, is, to me as a BT outsider, inconsistent.

It falls into the basis of porting a turn based boardgame into a realtime shooter.  Clearly the Devs had to make some kind of call, especially since they have Rotary, Ultras, LBX's and AC's all in the game. The reality is the traditional AC is outdated and only comes close to equal with the other models by the use of specialized Ammo the IS developed specifically to make them relevant versus these newer better models.

Rotarys in CBT can fire up to 5 times in a single turn
Ultras simply have double the fire rate with the cost of accuracy
LBX's actually fire a mix of Armor Piercing and explosive sub munitions to do enhanced damage sacrificing range.

All that aside you have to start somewhere I am fine with it. The issue comes across that the standard AC should behave the same from AC2's through AC20's be that they all fire like AC2's and  AC5's or they all fire as AC10's and AC20's. As it stands they act like totally different weapons systems no more alike than a PPC and a Laser even though they are in the same family.

[Jaso the Sniper]

I agree with dirg, I would prefer AC2/5 style, though.

BTW, how does the non-rotary AC work, in terms of firing quickly? I mean, mechanically?

[Dirg]

The real world definition of an autocannon is a rapid-fire projectile weapon firing a shell as opposed to the bullet fired by a machine gun. In CBT thats also true the number designations reflect damage down by the weapon over a 10second span, how that damage is achieved, be it Massive shell size or increased rate of fire, is totally irrelevant to its classification as per my first post.

Its not realism I lobby for just consistency and a real in-game niche for the weapon type.

[=KoS= Eldragon]

I agree with dirg, I would prefer AC2/5 style, though.

BTW, how does the non-rotary AC work, in terms of firing quickly? I mean, mechanically?

---- WARNING! Sci-fi hocus-pocus alert!---

With the smaller bore (AC2 and AC5)  the firing mechanism uses the expanded gas to load to load the next round into the chamber just like an automatic rifle. The large Bore ACs have shells that are too heavy, and use a mechanical loading system. Thus the slower rate of fire.

IMHO the current rate of fire for all ACs is just fine. I just wish the LBX-AC5 and LBX-AC2 weapons also fired at the faster rate (With corresponding damage/ammo changes), and become  the premier AA gun.

[~SJ~ Blhurr]

I kind of like that they behave like, well, you know, cannons. 

[SquareSphere }12thVR{]

All (if I remember correctly) MW games have depicted AC 10-20's as huge single shot projectiles.  UACs being a double shot.

[Brainwright]

I kind of like that they behave like, well, you know, cannons.

Battletech has cannons.

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Heavy_Rifle

They kinda suck.  Gauss rifles and PPCs replaced them as single-shot heavy hitters.

[Teafour]

I have not and do not like the idea of the autocannons being machine guy like at all. AC's were intended to fire once and do it's total damange to a single location. This is why historically, AC's were depicted to bore size doing more damager the larger it was and lossing range at the same time. AC 2's do 2points to a single location, AC 5's do 5points to a single location, 10's 10pts to a single location and 20's doing 20pts to a single location. Right now, if you fire 2's and 5's, you are spreading that damage (however you cross over the scales) over possible hit locations as a machine gun. I would like to see the 2's and 5's with lower rates of fire than currently using and work more like the 10's and 20's. In many of the previous mech games, the delays between the weapons were approx. ac2's had two second reloads, ac5's had 4 second reloads, ac10's had 6 second reloads and ac20's had 8 second reloads. At least that was true in 3 different mech games I remembered playing as it's how I used to count and time my jukes or shots to rock enemies.