Osiris Love

[rong]

Drumming up support for a little tweaking...

Remove the JJ and give the AC20 Osiris MASC, JJ is useless for this light mech. Short range weapons dictate a brawling/hit and run type mech. This is hard to do when you barley move faster than a medium mech.

For that matter, UAC20 SCAT....two lasers... no ammo...JJ... and MASC...

Seriously, I think most people utilizing this mech would happily give up JJ or a laser for more ammo.

The variants were intuitive,  but now they are setup to squelch the whine threads. I don't get it.

When there is a MECH lab my AC20 Osiris will have MASC, and either no lasers or only one, depending on how Tonnage works out; my UAC20 SCAT will be sporting two SBL, and two extra tons of ammo.


This isn't making anything over powered... I still have to hit my target to use ammo. I can die prior to it being depleted. It just makes sense.

About the UAC20 SCAT:

When you kill 1.5 mechs you need to return to base for ammo that is messed up. Most times I am making it to our team's battle line and I need to go back for more ammo.

I know I know, APC...  Funny no energy weapon variants need to rely on such a thing.

Frankly this would give the other team a better chance of killing the mech as you would stay in a hostile area longer, because you are able to fight and are damaged, where as currently, you run back to base and fully repair and the process starts all over again.



Whithering Trajetory...why was this changed. You can dumb fire all kinds of weapons in this game.  Just give the Balistic type weapons high drop rates.  Make the shells dive for the ground after the max range.  This will make you aim hilariously high in order to hit something barely out side your range, the reduced damage past max range was brilliant... if you die to an AC20 variant lobbing shells at you from 600 meters you deserve to die.



I WANT TO GO OUT IN A BLAZE OF GLORY....or mushroom cloud...


Cmon' SNOWBALL help me out here. 

[xInVicTuSx]

First of all, I love the Osiris and want to see its armor increased to cannon.
However, I still maintain that Osiris is an abomination which is absurdly overweight and even more absurd when it comes to crits. If you took off the JJs, slowed the engine, got rid of some armor, you might be able to fit one AC20 with no ammo or backup weapons weight wise, but you will never fit it crit wise. I'm for a variant remake here, if I can't get one then get rid of the JJs and extra ammo on it. So we are not going to agree there.

About the SCAT, given the high refire of the CUAC20 scat I would tend to agree that no extra ammo hurts the design, I too would support giving up a JJ (if we are using a multiple JJ system) to give this one some extra staying power. Though, with MASC it makes RTB quite easy. Can't say I agree on the removal of lasers though.

As for your comment about energy weapons, It's hard to find an energy weapon that puts out that much damage that fast, perhaps multiple LPL could but the amount of heatsinks required to keep them from melting would outweigh the CUAC20 by a vast amount.

If the devs have any souls Osiris B will be long gone by the time we get to mechlab, if they allow variants like that...
R.I.P. Balance when we get Mechlab.

[rong]

This is a game about Fighting walking tanks..... your telling me fitting the best combination for the desired roll is bad?

You make it sound like it is physically impossible to place these weapons on a certain platform....it is imaginary...   
 
MY Tech crew in MY mech bay better Farking work a miracle with duct tape and super glue to get a AC20 on a light mech. Or they get sent to the protein/water extractor.   

Favorite MW4 mech is a Centurion with a AC20.

[SquareSphere }12thVR{]

I'm all for the Osiris AC20+Masc!  It was my favorite variant in 0.2.0.  Regardless of what xInVicTuSx says about it's nature

[NSallaNuto]

When the mechlab will be ready then illegal variant will have to disappear anyway. It would be better to fix the existing variants even before that.

[SquareSphere }12thVR{]

People have to remember that the MWLL is NOT CBT there for any assumption about how critical slots and weight will play in variant creation is PURE SPECULATION

[NSallaNuto]

So why most other variants have been modified to be CBT compliant?

[snooggums]

You make it sound like it is physically impossible to place these weapons on a certain platform....it is imaginary...   

I'd have to see the weights that MWLL uses but here's the CBT tonnage:

An Osiris weights 30 tons with a 240XL engine:
6 tons for the (standard) 240XL engine
1.5 tons for the endo steel skeleton
3 tons for the cockpit
2.4 tons for the gyroscope
2 tons for Jump Jets (as it only had 4 hex JJ jump instead of the normal 8 to match the engine)

So, not counting armor or weapons it weighs 14.9 tons.
An AC20 (no ammo) weighs 14 tons.

So a standard Osiris with zero armor, and AC20 and 1 ton of ammo weighs 29.9 tons. If speed was reduced by 2/3 (to a 3 ton engine) 3 tons of armor could be applied if there were no secondary weapons. Of course MWLL weights are already noted as not being consistent with CBT so I'm even more interested in the mech bay simply to see what can be made there

For crits, there are 47 available on a standard frame (49 without hands/47 without hands or lower arm actuators).
6 taken by XL engine (3 each side)
14 for ES frame
14 for FF armor
4 for Jump jets
10 crit slots for AC20
1 crit for ammo
= 49 slots taken before secondary weapons, I think it has 2 med lasers or similar

So with a couple backup lasers the mech is either slightly overweight and on borderline on crits or not depending on how MWLL handles it. But the AC20 on this frame in CBT is definitely possible but would be ill advised. Note that they did reduce speed and armor in the last patch IIRC to make it closer to CBT.

[SquareSphere }12thVR{]

They're not only CBT complaint.  The MWLL devs have said time and time again their main focus is to balance what people see as CBT with a "fun" factor and to fill in role/weight  gaps.

in the 030 release they stated that CBT was only a starting point and they would continue to adjust based on the realities of the game versus how the rules work in paper and pencil

[=KoS= Eldragon]

in the 030 release they stated that CBT was only a starting point and they would continue to adjust based on the realities of the game versus how the rules work in paper and pencil

Exactly. e.g. a Large Laser and PPC are quite similar in Pen and Paper. Yet in MW:LL they are very different. Lasers are instant hit, and PPCs you need to lead your target, and do splash damage. That difference needs to be adjusted for through various balancing factors, simply because CBT does not account for real-time weapon behavior.

[rong]

No Offence, I love seeing the data, but you are quoting a board game... the reality is war research develops as needed.

The Osiris I am talking about is 33tons and has 60 crits.
 No Osiris of mine will have jump jets if it interfers with its ability to run away.

You make it sound like it is physically impossible to place these weapons on a certain platform....it is imaginary...   

I'd have to see the weights that MWLL uses but here's the CBT tonnage:

An Osiris weights 30 tons with a 240XL engine:
6 tons for the (standard) 240XL engine
1.5 tons for the endo steel skeleton
3 tons for the cockpit
2.4 tons for the gyroscope
2 tons for Jump Jets (as it only had 4 hex JJ jump instead of the normal 8 to match the engine)

So, not counting armor or weapons it weighs 14.9 tons.
An AC20 (no ammo) weighs 14 tons.

So a standard Osiris with zero armor, and AC20 and 1 ton of ammo weighs 29.9 tons. If speed was reduced by 2/3 (to a 3 ton engine) 3 tons of armor could be applied if there were no secondary weapons. Of course MWLL weights are already noted as not being consistent with CBT so I'm even more interested in the mech bay simply to see what can be made there

For crits, there are 47 available on a standard frame (49 without hands/47 without hands or lower arm actuators).
6 taken by XL engine (3 each side)
14 for ES frame
14 for FF armor
4 for Jump jets
10 crit slots for AC20
1 crit for ammo
= 49 slots taken before secondary weapons, I think it has 2 med lasers or similar

So with a couple backup lasers the mech is either slightly overweight and on borderline on crits or not depending on how MWLL handles it. But the AC20 on this frame in CBT is definitely possible but would be ill advised. Note that they did reduce speed and armor in the last patch IIRC to make it closer to CBT.

[Rally]

The way I understand it is that all mech variants in the game are now made using a rule system. That rule system is however not identical to the battletech one, it is only derived from it. A MWLL AC20 may be a few tons lighter than what is written in battletech rulebooks so it fits on an Osiris nicely.

[Squibby]

If the rule system is consistently followed I have no issue with this mech.

It's obviously got the weakest armour of all the light mechs to compensate, lighter than other osirises. Turning it into a glass cannon - as it should be.

I don't want to see a return to 0.2 where evey single bloody light mech on the field was an osiris B. For once we have a nice varied lineup of starting mechs on the field, and I think thats a good indicator that balance has been restored.

[snooggums]

My point was that it was actually possible in CBT with the reduced armor and speed that was already done in the last patch so the people who whined that it was impossible wouldn't be able to use that excuse.

[rong]

What kind of values are we talking for losing JJ and adding MASC.

All MASC is going to do is let you pulse it to get away and make the enemy miss, and no one should be bitching about a mech pilot being able to dodge well. The way the MASC is working in 3.0 it seems like it produces more heat... fine.

I just want to be able to pulse it.

MASC = ? tons

JJ = ? tons

Turning it into a glass cannon - as it should be.

I agree this is how it should be. But the AC20 Osiris in it's current state requires you get very close, within range of all but a few weapons in the entire game.

1. Must get within 350m 
               
2. Weakest armor

3. mid/upper range in speed for light mechs.




They didnt just nerf this mech they made it meat for everyone else. The mech must run through a gauntlet of missle and Gauss fire, only to run into PPC and Lasers, to finally get 3-5 shots in...if it makes it that far without missing a leg.

Just drop the JJ for MASC that all I am saying.

After fighting a 2.0 Osiris and fighting one now.... you know good and well if you see one on the field you run it over... it is meat without MASC.


Why even have the variant.