Author Topic: Has the Battle Arrmor become too powerfull?  (Read 6061 times)

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Offline Leeko

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Re: Has the Battle Arrmor become too powerfull?
« Reply #90 on: August 29, 2010, 06:47:18 PM »
I don't mind whether an Elemental, Longinus or a simple Pilot figure ejects from a mech, but that they can easily cripple my mech after ejecting is simply wrong...

You're exaggerating here. An MPPPC + SRM2 is hardly Mech-crippling firepower. If you could eject with the Micro Heavy Laser sure, but ejected pilots really aren't that much of a threat. Basically what I'm hearing is "ejected pilots shouldn't be able to do any damage." Claiming that the damage output of BA is equal to that of Mechs is exaggerating as well. SRM2 + MHL + MPPPC is, in terms of raw firepower assuming 100% accuracy, somewhere between a light and a medium Mech. Considering that you need to hit with the entire ~3 second MHL blast and the fact that BA are  insta-kills to anything with SRMs, small ACs, or lasers I think that's pretty fair. And even that comparison is moot after the first 20 minutes of a game when the heavies start coming out.
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Offline Come and See

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Re: Has the Battle Arrmor become too powerfull?
« Reply #91 on: August 30, 2010, 01:39:04 AM »
BA's can do absolutely the same damage as Mech's. A micro heavy plus a PPC can do some heavy damage. All the BA has to do is run under your feet or ride the rear of a tank.

Do you know how frustrating it is to have BA's running right behind your tank and you can't traverse your turret down to shoot them?

Weapons need to have more splash damage radius. It's frustrating that nothing but direct hits, PPCS, and SRMs kill BA's.

Offline =KoS= Saber15

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Re: Has the Battle Arrmor become too powerfull?
« Reply #92 on: August 30, 2010, 01:45:28 AM »
BA's can do absolutely the same damage as Mech's. A micro heavy plus a PPC can do some heavy damage. All the BA has to do is run under your feet or ride the rear of a tank.

Do you know how frustrating it is to have BA's running right behind your tank and you can't traverse your turret down to shoot them?

Weapons need to have more splash damage radius. It's frustrating that nothing but direct hits, PPCS, and SRMs kill BA's.
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Offline Leeko

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Re: Has the Battle Arrmor become too powerfull?
« Reply #93 on: August 30, 2010, 02:56:57 AM »
BA's can do absolutely the same damage as Mech's. A micro heavy plus a PPC can do some heavy damage. All the BA has to do is run under your feet or ride the rear of a tank.

The damage a BA can do is negligible to heavies and assaults, which comprise the biggest portion of the battlefield after the first 20-30 minutes. Unless you let them sit there and plink at you for a couple of minutes, they aren't going to deal any decisive blows. They aren't a threat to ASF, tanks have heavy armor and should NEVER operate alone, light/medium Mechs can outrun BA and, Hollander notwithstanding, kill them quite easily most of the time.

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Do you know how frustrating it is to have BA's running right behind your tank and you can't traverse your turret down to shoot them?

Tanks shouldn't be able to have an easy time killing BA IMHO. They're tiny and more maneuverable, it's their only real advantage against anything. Tanks have the biggest disadvantage against them - they are slow and less maneuverable than Mechs, and often focus only on one type of weapon; specialists by and large, and most of them fall into the role of AA, Mech-killer, or artillery. AA is excellent for killing BA - if they get on your tail, hit your boost and back up. Unless you're in a Huit you should be able to outpace them once they burn their JJ fuel once or twice, and even then you shouldn't be alone or on the front lines and your buddies should have an easy time picking the BA off. Same applies to Mech-killers and artillery, let your teammates do the work, you should never go Rambo in one. One asset should never be Rock, Paper, and Scissors.

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Weapons need to have more splash damage radius. It's frustrating that nothing but direct hits, PPCS, and SRMs kill BA's.

Listen to what you're saying. What weapons are these that you allude to? AC2s kill BA in 2-3 hits, and adding splash to them would be ridiculous due to their size and rate of fire. Same deal with RACs and LBX, though RACs they can be hard to aim with precision at close range. That leaves LRM/MRMs, other ACs, Gauss rifles, and lasers.

Lasers will never have splash damage, that should be self-explanatory, and even small lasers are deadly to BA.

LRMs really shouldn't be good at killing BA... but they are anyway. Try aiming down, you eventually get a knack for it. MRMs are better at it than either LRMs or SRMs, since there's almost always more MRMs on same weight class Mechs than SRMs, and they don't have the arc of LRMs.

AC10/20s and Gauss rifles are bad at killing BA, but not impossible to use for such. Assuming AC10/20 are similar to a HEAP tank shell, a tiny bit of splash damage makes sense (and IIRC they have it) but still, using one on a BA is like nuking an anthill and most Mechs have backup weapons that work better. Gauss rifles do work with lucky shots or accuracy, but there's really no reason why they should be reliably useful against BA given that they have superior accuracy, damage, range, and heat to PPCs.

MGs aren't that great at killing BA, but they work, then again MGs are pretty much just there to take up free pods and tons. Flamers really aren't good for anything except overheating energy boats, though. Any decently skilled BA can dodge them, and I have mixed feelings about this. On one hand, overheating is a really cool niche. On the other, they probably should be good at swatting BA as there really isn't a weapon dedicated to that role except maybe AC2s (again, lol @ MGs).

That leaves, what... ArrowIV, LT, Firebombs, and Thunderbolts? I'm not spelling those out. As someone who's logged hours as BA I hope I've shown you its perspective when faced with just about every weapon type. The same principle that applies to assets not being jacks of all trades goes for weapons. If they were all good against everything, the game would be no fun. Imagine only being able to use the Novacat. Might as well go play Modern Borefare 2.
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Offline Virt

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Re: Has the Battle Arrmor become too powerfull?
« Reply #94 on: August 30, 2010, 12:14:22 PM »
To me BAs are at now at pretty much the right level of annoyance/threat vs killability.

In a Mech, if you get swarmed by 3 of them, you die.   Quite annoying, but a fair outcome.

Singley they're challenging to hit if they're good ... but not impossible, as long as your ping's not crazy.
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Offline =KoS= Tripod

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Re: Has the Battle Arrmor become too powerfull?
« Reply #95 on: August 31, 2010, 12:23:32 AM »
Played as a lone BA on mirage today.

3 kills 3 deaths (two were non enemy related)

I had PPC, MHL and full c8.

First life: Ran over by teammate after spawn.

Second life: Killed one mech, and earned about 100k, which I gave away to teammates. Killed by nearby enemy mech dieing and starting a nova chain.

Third life: Killed two mechs, destroyed two ejected mechs, and earned over 150k + the 70ish k I spawned with, which I gave away to teammates. Killed by AC 10 warhammer after he rushed me, but I got his core to dark red.

Fourth life: Bought a LBX Loki, and lagged out before I saw any enemies.

DAMN GAMESPY!!

As you can see, BA are far too good for the points you get killing them.
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Offline =KoS=Zeus

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Re: Has the Battle Arrmor become too powerfull?
« Reply #96 on: August 31, 2010, 12:41:40 AM »
MGs are fine for killing BA and rattling the nerves of ASFs. The trick with BA is to realize that a pair of machine guns will shoot to either side of a BA if he is falling straight down, so try to zigzag the rounds a little as you lead him and you'll hit. It only takes a couple MG rounds to drop a BA and it puts the fear of god in them. Up close you just rock and roll at a BA and he'll die, even if the muzzle flashes are obscuring your vision, just keep firing and he'll either die or run below or above your torso angle. Just turn around and keep the pressure on him, you'll get him soon enough or force him to seek cover.

Offline narcolepticltd

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Re: Has the Battle Arrmor become too powerfull?
« Reply #97 on: August 31, 2010, 04:51:31 AM »
The fact that this thread is rollin along only tells me that BA are getting up where they should be. Making them worth more points because they're now a threat? It still only takes even a misplaced shot to kill one... and as others have stated, you can take out a whole squad of them in 1 second with an AC2.

Flamers are borked.

Also... now that BA are considered a threat, players are actually gunning for them, when before they were no where near the top in priority targets. My survivability coming back to the game in 0.3.0 is MUCH lower now... not because BA are worse (definitely better) but because players are recognising them as a problem, and dealing with it.

Offline Taemien

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Re: Has the Battle Arrmor become too powerfull?
« Reply #98 on: August 31, 2010, 05:25:27 AM »
The fact that this thread is rollin along only tells me that BA are getting up where they should be. Making them worth more points because they're now a threat? It still only takes even a misplaced shot to kill one... and as others have stated, you can take out a whole squad of them in 1 second with an AC2.

Flamers are borked.

Also... now that BA are considered a threat, players are actually gunning for them, when before they were no where near the top in priority targets. My survivability coming back to the game in 0.3.0 is MUCH lower now... not because BA are worse (definitely better) but because players are recognising them as a problem, and dealing with it.

This is very true. I remember a time when I'd see a BA running around and ignore them. Now I shower them with missiles to either kill them or keep their heads down. The bold ones are the ones I really need to take out.

Do they need to be worth more points? Not really. Maybe the ones with that yellow beam of death do. If its possible to make those worth more points then do so. But the rest, not so much.

Offline Brainwright

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Re: Has the Battle Arrmor become too powerfull?
« Reply #99 on: August 31, 2010, 06:05:18 PM »
Do they need to be worth more points? Not really. Maybe the ones with that yellow beam of death do. If its possible to make those worth more points then do so. But the rest, not so much.

The piss laser is overdone.  It's not as threatening as any number of other things a battle armor could do to you.

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Offline Sesambrot

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Re: Has the Battle Arrmor become too powerfull?
« Reply #100 on: August 31, 2010, 09:20:21 PM »
The BA as it is, is almost perfect...
needs some more toys, but very good balanced now!
However, ejected Pilots shouldn't have almost the whole BA weapons arsenal at their disposal IMO...
If they find a friendly APC, why not?! but right after ejecting? No!
« Last Edit: August 31, 2010, 11:02:52 PM by 7.[WD]Sesambrot »
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Offline Nebfer

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Re: Has the Battle Arrmor become too powerfull?
« Reply #101 on: August 31, 2010, 09:55:49 PM »
All we need now is to bring in some Kopis Assault Battle Armor for the IS and Ironhold Armor for the Clans...

The Kopis manages to one up the Kanazuchi, while retaining a useful 10 armor points it manages to add a second Medium laser! 

The JF Ironhold Assault Armor is Clan ERPPC resistant, jumps 2 and has 2 AP Gauss Rifles, though theirs a configuration that swap outs the armor for Fire resistant armor and drops the jump pack to add an extra pair of AP Gauss Rifles (Yeah thats right 4 AP Gauss Rifles).

Offline Cujo

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Re: Has the Battle Arrmor become too powerfull?
« Reply #102 on: August 31, 2010, 11:33:11 PM »
can't find either of those on sarna, neither of them have pages, are they dark ages?

Offline SquareSphere }12thVR{

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Re: Has the Battle Arrmor become too powerfull?
« Reply #103 on: September 01, 2010, 12:04:00 AM »
Kopis is 3085 tech, so it's definitely dark age

The use of an AP Gauss Rifle dates the Ironhold to at least 3069 which is the Jihad era :-/
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Re: Has the Battle Arrmor become too powerfull?
« Reply #104 on: September 01, 2010, 12:05:31 AM »
can't find either of those on sarna, neither of them have pages, are they dark ages?

TRO 3085



Code: [Select]
KOPIS ASSAULT BATTLE ARMOR

Type: Kopis Assault Battle Armor
Manufacturer: StarCorps Industries
   Primary Factory: Emris IV

Tech Base: Inner Sphere
Chassis Type: Humanoid
Weight Class: Assault
Maximum Weight: 2000 kg
Battle Value:
   78 (Standard)
   60 (Anti-Infantry)
Swarm/Leg Attack/Mechanized/AP: No/ No/ No/ Yes
Notes: None

Equipment       Slots    Mass
Chassis:          550 kg
Motive System:
   Ground MP:    1       0 kg
   Jump MP:    0      0 kg
Manipulators:
   Left Arm:    Heavy Battle Claw      20 kg
   Right Arm:    Heavy Battle Claw       20 kg
Armor:    Advanced   5    400 kg
Armor Value: 10 + 1 (Trooper)

            Slots
Weapons and Equipment    Location    (Capacity)    Mass
Anti-Personnel Weapon Mount   RA   1   5 kg
Anti-Personnel Weapon Mount   LA   1   5 kg
2 Medium Lasers (30 x2)      Body   6   1,000 kg

Anti-Infantry
Anti-Personnel Weapon Mount   RA   1   5 kg
Anti-Personnel Weapon Mount   LA   1   5 kg
Medium Pulse Laser (12)   Body   3      800 kg
Flamer (10)      Body   1   150 kg


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