The current State Of Play

[Buzz_Litebeer]

I have been curious as to others feel the game is being played currently.  I don't want to know, specifically, how it should be played, but how it IS being played.

Right now I just see tons of people running into each other in a disorganized matter, and then getting killed by bad decisions either relating to rushing in with a long range mech against short range brawlers, or trying to run a short range brawler through a solid minute of LRM fire.

I have seen threads where people have this massive discussion related to imbalance in mechs that I do not see as being imbalanced in the game, IE when confronting them I always see them get defeated in detail by myself or my friends I play with, and we simply don't have any idea of how threads such as "Aeros are OP!" or "Madcat configuration XXXX is the best ever."

The reason I say this is because as I have played the only mechs that seem to have any value to bring on the field are ones that are dedicated to a single role, and have some overriding advantage in that single role.  None of the mixed advantage mechs are worth taking at all, and all money can be spent at every level for a single role advantage mech.

For example.

Role:  Initial mech - Uller A for any map except Inferno, where I use an Osiris B (the ac20 one).

Role:  Intermediary mech - Warhammer B - The GECM allows you to get close on any map except for Frostbite.  I haven't found a good intermediate mech for Frostbite yet, maybe the Shadowcat with Gaus?  I still use the warhammer B on this map but it is much less effective.

Role:  End Stage all around best mech - Novacat A -  This mech has everything. It is anti mech, anti BA, and Anti Air (as long as not being directly targeted).

Even the removal of the er large it had this mech is still the best.  If you  can begin engaging an enemy at long range, you have the option of disarming the enemy mech, or simply coring it, with risks for either.  If you disarm the mech, you will take damage from whatever remaining weapons it has when it gets to you, if you try to Core it and don't succeed it might have enough weapons to kill you.

Role:  Best Surprise! your screwed mech:  Mauler/Madcat MK2/Atlas C (whatever the heavy autocannon configs are).   I have been completely defeated in detail when surprised by these mechs, you simply cannot live for a long enough time if they get in 300 meters of you.  I have been killed from a full mech to completely dead before I even realized what was happening against these mechs.

Role:  Long Range Support:  LRM boats (Puma, Cougar, Vulture, Catapult)

I only see these mechs being effective on Frostbite and to some extent on Marshes.

------------------------

Map play.

Marshes:  One team is close to buildings and cover, and the other team is less close to buildings and cover.  I cant remember which.

IF your on the team where you have tons of open space and can force the enemy, going with novacats and LRM mechs is the way to go.

If your on the other team and have cover, and want to draw the enemy in, then novacats are the best.  All of this is thrown to disarray if someone brings a Long Tom.

FrostBite:  I have seen this map played from both sides now (I usually play clan because I hate freebirth scum).  The Clan side has a massive advantage on this map in position and availability of cover.  Playing as clan you can move up with a novacat into the covered buildings area, and have a good shot on many enemy positions there, the enemy cant poptart behind hills effectively, and the enemy has to cover a LOT of ground before it can get into cover, all the while being visible from LRMS by the clan.

As IS I recommend players fall far back from where I see people sit currently, either using the main hill outside of the base as cover, or going to the "left" relative to their base to use the more mountainish area as cover.  Do not engage in the open area at all except for the longest range LRM mechs.

The Novacat is devestating for the clan on this map, but can be completely shut down and forced into a support role (IE keeping the backfield clean) for the LRM mechs.  I played that role last night, every time a bigger enemy mech decided to come kill our LRM emplacement mechs, I simply disarmed them and then finished them off.  Quite sad really.

Inferno:  This is the only map where one side or the other doesn't matter as long you focus on capturing the hill, I cant remember what sector but if you have played you know what hill I am talking about.   Once you gain that hill you can force your own terms of battle, and you can force short range brawls that make the Osiris B a good starting vehicle for this map.  Because of the terrain the hill is defended from both sides from missiles, so you can use true brawling mechs and have enough cover to get to the hill without worrying about LRMS.

SandBlasted:

Long Range mechs all of the way, Novacat is king on this map, LRM boats are king, you have to pick your ground.  As a Novacat you can either go directly into the valley (one end or the other) and have good cover and the ability to pick apart mechs in a funnel.  As a warhammer you can force short range engagements in the valley.  As LRM mechs  and or Novacat you can also flank one of the pyramids and force the enemy to engage you on your grounds. 

This is one of the few maps where I would say that dedicated anti Air is a good thing to have, there is just not enough leeway with all of the open ground for the ground forces.  This is where an autocannon HUIT is worth bringing.

Mirage:

This is my favorite map, you guessed it, warhammer B or Novacat.  Each side has the ability to force engagement at medium to close range, LRMS are relatively worthless depending on how you force the play and on individual skill of your teammates.

For me I go clan and just as you exit the main value on the right of the base there is a mountain and some rough terrain, I just hang out there and kill people.  Even if the enemy flanks to the left to get more open space, you can still huddle in the mountain area and hold off attack from that.

Extremity:  I dont play this map. 

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Anyway I think I have them all

Also, my general "Team" tactic is to play the game sort of like a flock of birds, the initial attack goes in, takes damage, then slowly falls back through his teammates line to get repaired.  Rinse and repeat. This works so well because mechs take so much damage now that you can usually escape as long as you choose when properly.

[AoP]

Very, very interesting read.
Sticky.

[(TLL) Zeh]

I agree that the Novacat is the mech I most fear, and ER Large Lasers are the third scariest weapon system (Right behind Arrows and Ltom).  I don't however view single-role mechs as the end-all of the game.  The Novacat may be the exception, but it's also only scary in the hands of someone who can point those lasers effectively, if I'm not playing against one of the better clan members or Snowball etc, I'm not that intimidated by them.

 But I think you're overly critical of tactics in a gamemode that has absolutely no real incentive to slow down the game and try to play a tactically sound way.  Think of Solaris Arena as a big sandbox where you get to choose a mech and pound on things until the time is up, that's essentially what it is.  Holding positions is as important as you care about it, etc.  There's no real goals other than "try to destroy more than them", and most people don't even care about that, they just want to destroy stuff personally and advance in rank. 

As an aside, please stop using obscure military phrases like "defeat in detail", if you're going to misuse them.  It means you ganged up on someone and picked him off, or that you isolated and overwhelmed your opponent, not that you/he were simply defeated badly.  A 1v1 fight would never mean you or your opponent were "defeated in detail".

(Edited for spelling)

[Buzz_Litebeer]

Note, this thread is not well written by myself.  I wrote it while at work between breaks while compiling and I have re-read it and it is summarily terrible.

The thing that I wanted most was to understand how people perceive what is going on.

When I read other peoples threads their perception of what happened in a game is wholly different from how I approach it.  They also have different levels of what they consider a "good" game or "valid" strategies. 

For example, I saw someone complain two nights ago that Aeros were way too overpowered, yet the aero fighter in question only had 5 kills and 8 deaths, which means he got the really raw end of the stick.

I don't perceive aerospace assets as having much of an impact on the game except for the truly exceptional pilots in Shivas with FBOMBs, and even then a dedicated and skilled (note single) HUIT with ac can take them out.

[SquareSphere }12thVR{]

I do agree that perception plays a huge role in how a player approaches a game.  Just from an air asset perspective, a TBolt Sulla narcing late game can be a huge boon to the team fielding arrows.  Said Sulla pilot also racks up massive scores for the assist but not many kills.

At the same time that Sulla pilot can't see that swarms of BAs that are locking down choke points in the same game.  The mech  pilots might be saying that BA's are OP while the opposing mech pilot might be saying Aero is OP so they're forced to play BA.

There's so much meta gaming happening in matches that there are vastly different opinions forming all in the same map.  The very fluid nature of a MWLL pub game is pretty amazing when you think about it.

Even from a "lone wolf" perspective,  I've influenced the fluidity of a game by fielding
- a strategically located APC for BA spawning which slowed enemy advances and lock down certain choke points
- an Arrow asset to utterly gut mech lines that didn't have air support
- Long Toms to break up Arrow/LRM boat clusters which let flanking units rip apart the shattered lines
- air narc assets that forced the other team to take AA measure or face weakened line units.

[Nakor]

I agree with your assessment of the game as being based on roles although I tend to look at them a little differently. I lump all assests in the game into either scout, fire support, close support or main line.
I. Scouts are fast with light armor/heavy electronics and the good ones have a good alpha strike. Owens B or PPC raven for example. Sparrowhaks also fall under this definition and sometimes harrassers and hawkmoths as well.
II. Fire support is anything that excells at long range combat. Lrm boats, any huit, most nova cats, LT's.. basically anything that involves staying in the rear and raining death from afar.
III. Close support is your "brawlers" most Oro's and demolishers, the lb20x loki or the Autocannon variants of the Atlas and MkII are good examples of this.
IV. Main Line units are typified by units like the Bushwacker, its not particularly good at any one thing but its a solid addition to a unit.

A lot of units fall under more than one of these categories, like the fire support variants of the raven and owens for example or the heavy chassis (loki, thanatos?) that have c3 and some ecm/active probe equipment.
As for the maps.. Mirage and Thunder Rift are wonderful, you can make pretty much anything unit type work reasonably well with a little practice. I really enjoy using scout vehicles, especially the sparrowhawk on mirage, thunder rift is kind of a grab bag for me, always something different in terms of tactics..
On sandblasted I frequently roll direct fire support, AAA style since the map favors long range combat and tons of aircraft.. However, I enjoy using close support the most since it is more of a challenge and quite effective.
For Marshes I LOVE using scout mechs, Owens B is where its at. I get some kills (especially against BA) AND it works great for running into the enemy line, and then booking it back to your team, while drawing two or three of them into your team to be murderlated while spotlighting them with c3 and bap. Its hella fun 
Clearcut is all about the Aerospace units for me, the terrain layout makes rolling the 4 erlrg sulla a blast.
Extremity... when I play this map I do one of two things: Roll a RAC boat to kill elementals with or grab an air unit to AVOID elementals with. Sometimes, I get a rac5 hawkmoth so that I can do both 
Inferno: Holy god I am sick of fighting over that one freaking hill on the NW side of the map. I swear you could cut out the rest of the map and nobody would even blink. I used to spend this map trying to find a way to do something enjoyable/more tactically advanced than shooting at each other over the crest of a hill over. But now I just switch servers or go do something else. This map is completely bereft of joy for me, b/c of the way it is played. Its sad b/c this map is actually pretty awesome.

[Buzz_Litebeer]

See, here is where we start to diverge.

When it comes to BA, and people arguing they are overpowered.

The only person who, as a BA, has caused me harm is Nateious, this is because Nateious knows exactly how I play, and what needs to be done to defeat me.

But when Nateious (bud I play with) work together, Battle Armor is literally the most worthless unit in the field.  They are literally there to give me points.

A BA, once I decide to kill it, has about a 2 second life span if I am in a novacat, about a 10 second life span if I am in an Uller A, and about 20 seconds or so if I am in a warhammer B.

If i am in an Atlas, I expect a teammate to kill the BA and I ask for help.

BA is by far the most useless unit in the field _against_ me, even though right now Nateious has been using it effectively as an attack unit in support of my action, this is because we use them together in a combined arms fashion, and never use the BA alone, but even the that is because Natieous absolutely hates the starter light mechs, not because the BA is more useful than an Osiris or an Uller.

When it comes to Aerospace fighters, the SparrowHawks, while fast and cool looking, are relatively useless for the DPS they can put out.  The only Aero assets worth taking is the hawkmoth, and shivas with Fbombs, everything else is a waste, even other aerofighters.  Why?  They don't do enough damage to the enemy aerofighters if those aerofighters make just one attack run then retreat to base.

The only things that frighten me or are a concern are vehicles and mechs (overall), and when it comes to vehicles they have been nerfed so much that I only care if I am being shot at by a Long Tom or fired at with Arrows by a Huit, the only time you take anything other than an Arrow Huit is when you need to take the AC huit and that is on the rare case you have a competent shiva pilot.

Like I said, when it comes to perception, and "state of play" I simply don't see the diversity in actual effective play that people discuss, the game for me comes down to this specific set of roles, and people doing those roles are are targets for those that do.

When I watch other players that I think understand these roles, I think of Snowball and Maverick Original, who play the same role based exclusive play with highly conservative play.

But I don't even know if they play the game with the same understanding that I do to achieve their results.

For me the diversity comes in things that I generally consider foolish.  IE being attacked by an Uziel when I am in a warhammer.

If I was in an Uziel, and I saw a warhammer, the first thing I would do is run away, then I would turn around, and fire till it got close, then I would run away again.

I would stay as far away as I could moving laterally.

Yet, here is what happens when I see someone fight me in an Uziel and I have a warhammer, they run right at me, sometimes doing circle of death, and I plow into them with autocannons till I overheat.  At this point they generally slow down (realizing I am not firing) then I fire my MRMS directly into their face.

OR these people get close, then try backing up against me, which results in MRM to the face.

This event is so predictable for me, it literally is how I fight Uziels.

Lets take some examples of engagements.

Me in an Uller Vs other person in Uller.

I start doing circle of death, and shoot his CT, I shoot with the laser, then I turn facing away with my laser arm exposed to him and and begin doing a tight turn by hitting the X key, this lets me pull the turn, now I dont try to get a tighter turn, i try to time it so that when I come out of the turn I am running AT the enemy, and then I fire at him directly in the face, and begin again.  It isnt quite a circle around the opponent, more of a tight pivot against the data.

This works because I only expose my CT to the enemy for a short period of time, and they usually spread damage out when attacking.

Now here is what i do when I have a warhammer vs and Uller, I go into a more traditional circle of death, and fire into the enemy, and when i run out I try to "cut off" the mech by going straight.  This forces them to stop there own circle of death or run into me, then as they pivot, I fire MRMS into them.

This works for warhammer vs warhammer, vs any medium mech.

What do I do when I am in a warhammer and I fight against a Mauler?  I DONT.  I RUN AWAY.

Why does no one do this against me?  If I come in with an Atlas, UAC10s and UAC20's, I have had Bushwhackers, Owns, Osiris mechs all come right up to me to brawl, and they get toasted.  I can never understand this, is this a deathwish?

When I am in a Novacat, I try to get as far away as possible from all mechs and just pick them apart from the longest engagement range.  if I see a mauler or mk2 or atlas, I back up and stay as FAR away from them as possible.

Yet in game after game I see people driving mechs right up these guys, and when they do it to me I just hose them down and move on.

But what are people thinking when they do these things?  I dont know.  Sometimes it happens to me, but every time I get caught by an Atlas or a MK2 or Mauler it is because I wasn't paying attention or didnt have a choice in the matter, it isn't because I thought "Man I am the Man the Myth The LEGEND Buzz_Litebeer and I can take this guy on!"

So when you play, and when you do well, what are the differences in your world perception vs mine as stated above?

[SquareSphere }12thVR{]

I think part of that "CHARGE" mentality is conditioning from play style. 

Brawling is too much fun and i'm guilty of charging too.  Respawn and deaths don't mean much to me and is probably the same for most brawlers.

[(TLL)Sky_walker]

Well, if we are on the guides:

Read & remember: Teamwork Guide

[Brainwright]

I think part of that "CHARGE" mentality is conditioning from play style. 

Brawling is too much fun and i'm guilty of charging too.  Respawn and deaths don't mean much to me and is probably the same for most brawlers.

Case in point : I brawl almost exclusively in a Bushwhacker B.  Even against the LBX20 AC Loki.  It's kinda sad, really.

[Buzz_Litebeer]

Very few people in this game play it "carefully."

They always run in, or the ones that do play carefully do it in exceedingly over specialized mechs (LRM Boats) that have the weakness that they are usually fought off by other LRM boats, and it allows people to run away from the LRM barrages, so that they do a lot of incidental damage, but rarely get a lot of kills.

For me I always engage at the maximum range my weapon is useful at (not necessarily its technical maximum range), I try to only participate in fights I know I can win, I don't charge in etc... etc...

The only times I really get caught out is by surprise.  IE the enemy outsmarted me and got me.  Every so often I am outright killed through skill, but then I just avoid fighting that player one on one.

It certainly isn't the most "honorable" play, but it certainly effective.

[=KoS= Tripod]

If you ever saw me run directly at you (and i think I have) while you were in an Atlas/ other close range vehicle, chances are I was in a heavily damaged light mech and i was hoping to "asplode in ur faise to help mai teem taik yoo daune"

Although most of the time I am either in a Raven narcing the biggest thing I can find, or sniping guys in my Novacat.

This one time, I saw a guy in the sniping Scat shooting my teammates. I was in the lbl awesome, so I aimed at his left arm and fired. as it dropped off, he looked at me, and fired his gauss at my cockpit. I then shot off that arm too. He ditched, and I cored his mech for easy points .

[Brainwright]

Very few people in this game play it "carefully."

It certainly isn't the most "honorable" play, but it certainly effective.

And it's people like you that I hate.

I charge not to throw myself at the enemy, but to meet at the front of the battle.  Even when enemy mechs have been swarming me for five minutes, people like you are just standing behind cover.

You make a piss poor teammate for a moving battle.

[Buzz_Litebeer]

You would think so, but it doesn't work like that.

That is the problem with your perception and reality in how the scoring works and how effective certain tactics are.

The tactics in MWLL are a combination of MW4/MW3 style tactics.  In MW3 brawling up close fighting as the order of the day because it was so mechanically hard to hit anything.  In mech4 it was more long range, high alpha weapons that ruled the day.

In MWLL you can mix it up with some clever use of terrain, the short range weapons actually are powerful as well as long range, + aero space.

So the idea is you have your team choose good battlegrounds, attacking the enemy together.

The only front line should be the one that your team moves together with.  What I specifically see is people running straight forward into the enemy, alone, against 2-3 mechs.

You aren't "breaking the line" by doing this, especially in an uller vs warhammers and maulers.

NOT EVER.

The line, at that point, would be BREAKING YOU.

Not exactly the same.

[DFDelta]

You aren't "breaking the line" by doing this, especially in an uller vs warhammers and maulers.

NOT EVER.

The line, at that point, would be BREAKING YOU.

Not exactly the same.

Yeah, those people are crazy... you use an Owens for that task.