Cockpit Kill

[AWS]

Hi there all, just found this mod from the Crymod link and this looks Cool!!! 
My question kinda comes from a few people's comments to do with balancing between mechs and those in suits.
My thought on this would be the good old cockpit kill, any player should be able to at least take a shot at the cockpit, and that way he doesn't need to try and take a leg for instance!
To be honest, if you guys do go down this route of allowing cockpit kills your main problem will actually be to not make it too easy to get one in the first place! (MadCat anyone)
Don't forget that elemental's have speed and insane maneuverability on their side.
You guys have probably talked about cockpit kills before, but forgive me for not wanting to trail through all those posts. 

[AoP]

Does this item in our FAQ answer your question?

http://www.mechlivinglegends.net/content/view/49/73/#3.6

[Criminal]

Yeah AoP posted what is in the designed right now.

Here's the thing though there are some AMAZING things we can do with glass materials in the cry2engine and i'd love to be able to use them to some degree. One idea that's being kicked around at present is if you hit the same spot twice...or the window twice perhaps we can destroy the window itself and leave the pilot slightly exposed. You can of course see the pro's and con's of doing it each way and honestly only in game play will be able to solve it for us Whichever one is more fun will go in!

[AWS]

Awesome, I was going to suggest "the man inside" idea, but I thought you'd think I was insane!
The reason I was going to say it is because some mechs have insanely huge cockpits (like the MadCat for instance) and limiting the actual cockpit kill to the same size for each mech would help to balance them out.
And it would look cool if a guy managed to survive with a completely blasted out cockpit! 

[Criminal]

Awesome, I was going to suggest "the man inside" idea, but I thought you'd think I was insane!
The reason I was going to say it is because some mechs have insanely huge cockpits (like the MadCat for instance) and limiting the actual cockpit kill to the same size for each mech would help to balance them out.
And it would look cool if a guy managed to survive with a completely blasted out cockpit! 

I tend to agree with you on that...would be cool to have a guy totally exposed in teh cockpit of a beat up mech...would make one feel invicible but oh so badass!

[thezeus18]

Honestly, small arms fire should have no effect on the cockpit. You gotta assume even the glass-like parts are made out of some kind of super-secure bulletproof plexiglass. The only thing I could see taking out a mech's cockpit would be vehicle mounted weapons (tanks and other mechs), rocket launchers, and perhaps a special sniper-rifle type weapon with a glass de-stabilizer like in deus-ex. With one of those, though, it'd be nearly impossible to hit the MechWarrior himself because the 'Mech is so bloody huge.

By the way, do the 'Mechs have any kind of anti-missile countermeasure system? And are there 'Mechs with cockpits that don't have windows? Like, instead they have view-screens or something?

[AWS]

To get a salvage in MW it's cockpit kills all the way, and yes it's very possible with "smaller" arms fire, after all I was referring Elemental's not to foot soldier's, but then again elemental's can pack some fairly hefty weapons from what I recall.
My point really is that for a laugh in MW you can setup a match with just you in an elemental against 5 other mechs and if your REALLY good you can take all five; if your decent you should be able to manage to take down 1, and if your just completely outclassed, like for instance a player of equal skill being in one of the mechs they'll take you down before you get a shot off. 
My point is that in MW there isn't anything such as "small arms fire"; every shot directed at the right place will have an effect.
For instance, the Vulture's leg and the MadCat's cockpit, these are your main target's, after all everyone knows you don't fire at an Atlas' torso!
Of course I'm not suggesting one-shot kill's in MW, but the Atlas for instance has an insanely small cockpit so rewards should be given for someone having the skill to take him out.
It's not like this would be easy as it's not as if your fighting him one on one and if you are then it should be down to each players skill.
Whoa... got a bit carried away there, but you can see what I'm trying to say, my apologies!

[Tortured_Soul]

Re: Criminal's Idea

Break the glass and lob a crafty hand grenade into the cockpit. KaBoom! Can you hear the cheers from the crowd!!!

[thezeus18]

Yeah, good luck lobbing a grenade, what, three stories high?

[LittleDevil]

Yeah, good luck lobbing a grenade, what, three stories high?

LAWL!  lol  Hes got a point.

[death_grin]

The thing is now in 2007 we have invented a transparent material thats as strong as steel! Imagine what they will have in 3050.  I can see MAYBE a manpack erppc or a elementals small laser blasting a whole but nothing like small arms, for example  a assault rifle would be pointless.  Why would they make the canopy penetrable by small arms fire?   However we will have a number of weapons that will damage mechs such as demo packs to help balance out the infantry and the mechs.

I think it would be cool though if randomly a high caliber bullet may manage to make it through the canopy and hit something inside.  Its kind of like the amazing critical hit you can get in battletech when a single small laser manages to hit a chink in the armor and pass through to hit the missile magazine.

However we still have to balance it so everyone does not just aim for the head because that would make for some lame matches.

[AWS]

Sorry to disappoint you, but the reality is that in any FPS a head-shot is your desired target.
However as anyone who plays an FPS knows, the reality of actually getting that head-shot is the difficulty.
That's why you'll aim either for his torso or his legs.

[xKamikazex]

Aiming for the head of a mech is different than aiming for a head on a footsoldier. Since some of the Mech heads are larger than other (Madcat vs Thor) it would be an easy target for someone to aim for the Madcat's broad snout and blast away the pilot inside.

I agree with Jeff that if we can make a transparent material that is strong as steel, why can't we make transparent Endo-Steel in 3050? The glass itself should be able to take at least one strong shot from some of the following
-PPC
-Large Laser
-LBX 10
-AC 10
-LRM 15
This should then crack the glass and spider web across the pilot's view. After that, the second shot should be able to break it. Smaller weapons such as Medium or Small lasers should take a few more shots to crack the glass before breaking it - exposing the pilot inside.

[Killgarr]

Well, in MW4 each area was broken down and had a certian amount of  HP and armor. I would assume we would do it the same way, and like MW4 be able to add more armor and HP to areas that you like. Unless each mech is pre-made, then im sure we will scale the armor and HP to match the size of the mech.

All the mechs in MW4 had about the same size head slot (if memory serves) the smaller mechs just had less HP and hitting it was a kill. And wont the glass of the mech be on the model? not drawn with world brushes right?

[thezeus18]

The thing is now in 2007 we have invented a transparent material thats as strong as steel! Imagine what they will have in 3050.  I can see MAYBE a manpack erppc or a elementals small laser blasting a whole but nothing like small arms, for example  a assault rifle would be pointless.  Why would they make the canopy penetrable by small arms fire?   However we will have a number of weapons that will damage mechs such as demo packs to help balance out the infantry and the mechs.

I think it would be cool though if randomly a high caliber bullet may manage to make it through the canopy and hit something inside.  Its kind of like the amazing critical hit you can get in battletech when a single small laser manages to hit a chink in the armor and pass through to hit the missile magazine.

However we still have to balance it so everyone does not just aim for the head because that would make for some lame matches.

I'm with this guy.