Author Topic: Really, guys? [LARGE IMAGES]  (Read 1348 times)

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Offline Leeko

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Really, guys? [LARGE IMAGES]
« on: July 10, 2010, 09:32:47 PM »
Something rather disappointing I noticed about IS assault 'mech legs. They're all the same. Since I haven't reinstalled photoshop after upgrading to windows 7 I just drew lines all over their torsos instead of blurring them to emphasize the legs. I think it's kinda funny, though, that they don't look like the real legs of any of the three.
Right: Doing this for Timberwolf/Mad Dog and Hellbringer/Summoner
Wrong: Doing this for Mauler/Awesome/Atlas (this is the order from left to right)



Battletech reference (correct legs):

(2:46:59 PM) Pytak: vicious anus
(2:47:09 PM) haarp: it hungers
(2:48:01 PM) Pytak: for moar

Offline ~SJ~Azov

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Re: Really, guys? [LARGE IMAGES]
« Reply #1 on: July 10, 2010, 10:11:25 PM »
this has been know for most of us before the launch

but you do realize the amount of time to model each mechs legs, animate it, and add in hitbox values can take an entire work week of 40 hours or more.

and since the mod was already delayed an entire year, its little things like this that dont really even matter that much other than cosmetic purposes.

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Offline Defender

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Re: Really, guys? [LARGE IMAGES]
« Reply #2 on: July 10, 2010, 10:19:27 PM »
It's a time constraint dude.
You've different basic types of legs (ex: Humanoid, Chicken Walkers).

If people actually wanted this game released within the decade we had to make some exceptions due to having limited modelers and animators. This means that the one or two guys we had available to animate (while they were still doing other shit) had to rig and create animation sets for every leg type, then adjust those leg animations to accommodate the particular mech they were settling on all while making sure they blended correctly. 

Upon release, we wanted to put as many mechs in as possible so we set aside into groups every mech that could share legs with other mechs of the same leg type. Then we tasked our animators with setting up the correct rigs, constraints and animation sets then blended them together and got more mechs in by doing this.

Also, lets take a look at those concept sketches you posted. I'd like you to emphasize, from a modeling and animation standpoint, in technical terms, how you'd go about actually modeling and animating those monstrosities with their organic curves and inadequate pivots and joints. One problem I, as a modeler have, is fighting with shitty TRO images where the artist goes "LOL LOOKS COOL TO ME BUT CAN'T REALLY MOVE WHO CARES LOLOL". Some designs are so fapping retarded there's no way physically possible to have them actually rotate along a pivot enough to animate a full range of motion without clipping through geometry and looking like ass just to stay with some lazy douches crappy source art.

Our mechs have multiple pivot points for a full range of rotations based around actually moving. Hip joint, knee join, ankle joint and 3-bone foot for the possibility of minute animations and physics (we intended toes to lift up, hang, make contact with the ground) and so forth. Now, try doing all this for almost 30 different mechs.

So, the reason you see so many similar legs is due to manpower and time constraints. If more people were willing to slave for free for years on end, we'd be more than happy to have different legs, animations and models for everything.
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Offline KingLeerUK

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Re: Really, guys? [LARGE IMAGES]
« Reply #3 on: July 10, 2010, 10:23:56 PM »
The fact that we reuse 'Mech legs across similar platforms is not a secret.  We have stated numerous times that we do this to minimise the amount of work that it takes to bring new 'Mechs into the game, and we will continue to do so.  It's actually one of the criteria that I've been using for platform selection in refining our final asset list.  I have to balance the uniqueness of having distinct 'Mech legs vs. the expected effort to actually get all of them in.  Our animation department does an amazing job, but I can only ask so much of them.
 
Rigging and animating the 'Mech legs is easily one of the most involved steps in bringing a 'Mech into the game.  For some 'Mechs we can use the same bones and animations and link those to slightly altered geometry to give a minor visual differentiation (see Madcat+Vulture vs. Mk2).  In the case of the Awesome and the Atlas, even the line art you cited is really close.  The Mauler was added later in the development cycle, but in order to do so quickly and meet release goals it had to borrow the same IS assault legs.
 
This isn't laziness, it's about using our resources in the best manner possible.  Would you rather have had unique legs and animations for these three, only to have further delayed the Hollander (which has unique and complex legs) and the Warhammer?  This would have further pushed out the initial release date of the mod.
 
It comes down to making the best decision for what to include based on the resources we have on hand and the time that we can allocate to completion.
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Offline -AAA-

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Re: Really, guys? [LARGE IMAGES]
« Reply #4 on: July 10, 2010, 11:53:47 PM »
1. Learn to search.
2. Stop bitching about inconsequential things.
3. ? ? ?
4. Profit.

Offline -SM-SUCKER

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Re: Really, guys? [LARGE IMAGES]
« Reply #5 on: July 11, 2010, 12:47:25 AM »
I didn't notice this before  :)

Offline =KoS= Saber15

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Re: Really, guys? [LARGE IMAGES]
« Reply #6 on: July 11, 2010, 01:02:10 AM »
The TRO Atlas, Awesome, and Mauler have very similiar legs, with minor differences, and animating and rigging is painstaking work.

I only noticed they shared legs when I shot a NARC at a Mauler's legs and it said Awesome_Legs or Atlas_Legs (don't remember)  ::)

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Online Profane Arbiter

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Re: Really, guys? [LARGE IMAGES]
« Reply #7 on: July 11, 2010, 01:26:01 AM »
How ever am I to continue to enjoy piloting a Mauler while bearing the grim knowledge that my pinky toes aren't canon!?

Oh the humanity...  ::)
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Offline [MPB]OM_Sannyasi

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Re: Really, guys? [LARGE IMAGES]
« Reply #8 on: July 11, 2010, 03:09:16 AM »
before you complain come help make this crap so we can add it- we don't have a regular sized game production team, probably 1/100th what crytek has so we have to reuse things that are not terribly noticable and that match the chassis pretty well


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Offline EvilMD

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Re: Really, guys? [LARGE IMAGES]
« Reply #9 on: July 11, 2010, 06:20:33 AM »
Why do all LRMs look the same too?!? Is there only one munitions supplier in the entire known universe?!? Devs, get on it or you will lose a customer!
« Last Edit: July 11, 2010, 06:39:39 AM by EvilMD »

Offline ~SJ~ Xarg Talasko

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Re: Really, guys? [LARGE IMAGES]
« Reply #10 on: July 11, 2010, 06:27:02 AM »
Defiance Industries bought out the competition.


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Offline (TLL)CapperDeluxe

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Re: Really, guys? [LARGE IMAGES]
« Reply #11 on: July 11, 2010, 06:27:33 AM »
OMG next thing you know they'll tell me all female breasts look alike, as if they've been copied over and over. And you know we'd probably still want to see all of them.
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Offline SquareSphere }12thVR{

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Re: Really, guys? [LARGE IMAGES]
« Reply #12 on: July 11, 2010, 08:22:30 AM »
While breasts aren't copy and past, they do deliver universal satisfaction.

But back on topic, yeah it's to save time, i hardly even notice while i'm dodging arrows
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Offline -AAA-

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Re: Really, guys? [LARGE IMAGES]
« Reply #13 on: July 11, 2010, 08:27:23 AM »
See, I got a warning for my post.  Yet my sentiments are echoed in every single subsequent post.  Would it have been more acceptable if I was smarmy instead of straightforward?  :P

Offline Virt

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Re: Really, guys? [LARGE IMAGES]
« Reply #14 on: July 11, 2010, 08:38:12 AM »
A warning...?!

In any case, I do happen to agree that the devs made the right judgement call in re-using the legs across the Mechs.   

I think we're all glad we're playing the game with multiple torsos now, rather than still waiting for a smaller menu of torso-specific legs.

Cheers.
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