What if MWLL was ONLY mechs...

[(TLL) Zeh]

And you're failing to understand the implications.  This is designed to be a combined arms Mod.  If there is an option that makes it wacky fun to play for silly Unreal Tournament fans to play, that could become popular, even eclipsing the standard game.  This would split the community creating a significantly smaller player base of the "combined arms" game. 

[Virt]

Agreed.   And we don't have enough active players or servers to be able to afford to split the community.

[KingLeerUK]

People aren't talking about changing the whole mod just a selectable option. Im all for this.

But it IS changing the whole mod by removing an entire class of vehicle, even more so to remove ALL BUT one class.  This is why you got the rather strong responses to your suggestion.  The team has put an enormous amount of effort into creating a Combined Arms Game, and it could be considered mildly insulting to have someone come along and basically suggest "you're doing it wrong, do it like this instead".

[Jakajan]

For the record, I like unreal tournament.

[Dragonlord]

And I for one have no interrest in it, simply not my kind of game.
I find MWLL to be far more fun and rewarding when it comes to gameplay.

[warmachine79]

I'm not talking about removing everything but mechs. I'm talking about giving the users an option. I like the combined arms concept. But if it was as well balanced as you say, you wouldn't have to be afraid about people only playing "Mech-Only" in case they have the option.

[Ingrater]

Well we have to worry about that, for exact that reason. For some mechs the best counter is an aero. And if we put in an option to disable those, it will kill the balance of the game, because we make the balance with the aeros in mind...

[NSallaNuto]

This worries me, maps without aeros will be unbalanced then. Another problem is how to guarantee to have in any game the right amount of aeros to keep them balanced?

/jk

[warmachine79]

This worries me, maps without aeros will be unbalanced then. Another problem is how to guarantee to have in any game the right amount of aeros to keep them balanced?

/jk

That's right, so that means, Thunder Rift always is unbalanced.
And quantity is the biggest problem concerning all units. But often, this is also being handled darwin-wise. Enemy has three aeros? Well, I will take a Huit Prime then, I think it is the best anti-air-unit in game. Maybe even more will buy a Huit Prime. Ten minutes later, there will be no more aeors, but the map will be full of mechs to counter Huit Prime. Ten minuten later, Huit Prime won't be funny any more (though it is also quite capable against mechs).

[Ingrater]

Well thats only a example, of course there are always multiple ways of countering a certain asset. I just wanted to make clear that we don't balance for mechs only.

[Pikey]

I understand the implications completely but I still want to be able to select what assets are available. Your all blowing out of proportion again!. some of you even seem to think that I'm not a decent player, that hates combined arms.

First thing I LOVE the mod AS IT IS (bolded and underlined so theres no confusion).

I just want the option to select assets (like mechs only) sometimes.  I really don't think that there would be any balancing issues at all with just mech on mech action. In fact i believe it would be better for new players coming into the game to start on mech only servers to get the hang of it if they haven't played any mechwarrior games before.

One mate of mine who has never played a mechwarrior game just couldn't get into it the first time he played on-line. He said there was just so much shit going on at the start and found it hard to control the mech. SO....what did we do 4 of us jumped on our own server and ran around in Mechs for 2hours trying them all out and teaching him what to do in different situations.


I'm not a witch please don't burn ME 

[warmachine79]

Well thats only a example, of course there are always multiple ways of countering a certain asset. I just wanted to make clear that we don't balance for mechs only.

But balancing isn't just about Asset A > Asset B > Asset C. I think the biggest problem is the relation between Time <----> Space <----> Assets, like it is in the "Real-World-Warfare". And that exactly why I think aeros are overpowered. The maps are too small for their speed which leads to an all-time-availability of air assets. Air assets aren't supposed to be all-time-available unless they are choppler-similar like the Hawkmoth. Map sizes are also too small for LongToms, they can cover almost the whole map with fire. The maps could be too big for BAs - but you handled this problem well, by making the BAs not only nimble, but also fast and you gave them the option to spawn at APCs.

[Perk]

But balancing isn't just about Asset A > Asset B > Asset C. I think the biggest problem is the relation between Time <----> Space <----> Assets, like it is in the "Real-World-Warfare". And that exactly why I think aeros are overpowered. The maps are too small for their speed which leads to an all-time-availability of air assets. Air assets aren't supposed to be all-time-available unless they are choppler-similar like the Hawkmoth. Map sizes are also too small for LongToms, they can cover almost the whole map with fire. The maps could be too big for BAs - but you handled this problem well, by making the BAs not only nimble, but also fast and you gave them the option to spawn at APCs.

I think you're on to something here, but current map size may be as much limitations of the Crysis engine as design choice.

Aero *is* extremely mobile compared to the size of the maps.  It's a matter of seconds to retreat for ammo and repairs, which dramatically increases the survivability of the air units - they're always at full health.

Assuming larger maps are possible, I can envision capturable forward bases and mobile repair trucks for mechs.  The Mechline can steadily advance with a shorter distance to repair and rearm, but the Aero is still dependent on its fixed bases.  As you advance to the enemy base you're further and further for your air cover, while closer and closer to his - this strikes me as a highly natural balancing mechanism over longer rounds.

That aside, I'm not in favor of Mech only servers.  The two current Mech only maps are also the two most boring, and I'd go so far as to say Thunder-Rift is broken.  On Marshes you can still pull off flank runs, and the LongTom / Raven combo can break up logjams nicely.  On Thunder-Rift the LongTom's aren't as useful thanks to the cavern roof, and flanking lights and mediums get funneled into choke points that cut off their mobility.  It always ends up as a slug fest over the bridge.  In SA mode it just comes down to who managed to win the first few engagements and now has the heavier Mechs.

[SquareSphere }12thVR{]

I'd like to point out there's nothing stopping an ambitious person from just making custom "mech only" maps.  We've seen quite a few from the community.  That being said, there's nothing stopping said person from just removing areo hangers from stock maps and running them as custom "land only" maps.

Right now it just takes some effort to make maps "land only" as opposed to just checking a box.

So in summary.

*Devs, don't waste time and resources on a "check box" that breaks your vision of the mod

*Player that want mech only, learn Sandbox 2 so you can remove the air asset hangers and you'll be happy running your custom maps.

[Remove]

I'd like to point out there's nothing stopping an ambitious person from just making custom "mech only" maps.  We've seen quite a few from the community.  That being said, there's nothing stopping said person from just removing areo hangers from stock maps and running them as custom "land only" maps.

Right now it just takes some effort to make maps "land only" as opposed to just checking a box.

So in summary.

*Devs, don't waste time and resources on a "check box" that breaks your vision of the mod

*Player that want mech only, learn Sandbox 2 so you can remove the air asset hangers and you'll be happy running your custom maps.

That's what I'm talking about!